whitevoid Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 I just want my normals back ;-; I do miss the old 5C, mainly because it looked awesome and was jump cancelable. They should make it a command normal, 4C.
kuma Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Uh, no. You are wrong. You're just making excuses for yourself. If you are playing "auto-pilot," then you are mashing, at least in my eyes. When I say "mash" I don't mean literally frantically pressing buttons, I mean pressing buttons without formulating a strategy. My point is if you are playing in a way that is disconnected from what is going on in the match, then you might as well just be frantically pressing buttons for all it's worth. It doesn't matter how "sound or good" that is, it's still mashing. Don't be another flow-chart Ken. Did you even read my post? I was saying that you shouldn't do that. We're disagreeing about the meaning of mashing, because you're making up your own definition. Anyway, getting back onto the subject of what a newer player should do when encountering mashers: You remember the stupid stuff you used to do back when you were a fledgling D-masher? The kinds of things that all the other players said were "cheap" and "unfair", until they figured out that they could beat pretty much all of it on reaction and you stopped doing it? Yeah, that stuff still works against mashers. And even better, you've grown, and you can combo off it now. I take particular glee in doing totally unsafe 3C->haida loop over and over again (by which I mean four times, since that's as long as the match lasts) when they don't block it. Noel is full of stupid BS gimmicks that aren't viable at high level play. I know that you've practically forgotten them after learning things like blockstrings and real combos, but against mashers you can let yourself go. Have fun, throw out stupid BS just because, and smile with glee when you cause some troll to be angry enough to ragequit.
Chiizu Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Noel is full of stupid BS gimmicks that aren't viable at high level play. I know that you've practically forgotten them after learning things like blockstrings and real combos, but against mashers you can let yourself go. Have fun, throw out stupid BS just because, and smile with glee when you cause some troll to be angry enough to ragequit. Yup, no need to use advanced stuff against a weak scrub. I won't say to lower your level to your opponent's but that's the idea.
dragontamer Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Advanced Tactics == Positioning, Safety, and so forth. You shouldn't lose to a "Masher". After all, advanced players will know how and when to mash. If your "advanced tactics" are so easily beaten by a newbie, then they aren't advanced at all. Its back to the drawing board.
kuma Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Yeah, but we're talking about a lower level of play. Even if you haven't gotten the hang of those things, you can still beat mashers easily. It's the difference between victories and perfects. My advice applies to people who have spent the time in training to learn blockstrings and combos, but not enough in combat to learn matchups, positioning, etc. If you already know how to control space then you're already beating mashers and you're doing it in a better way, but one that's hard to explain on a message board because it involves having muscle memory understanding of the mechanics of the game. Edit: And frankly, unsafe 3C->haida is just fun.
Chiizu Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Advanced Tactics == Positioning, Safety, and so forth. You shouldn't lose to a "Masher". After all, advanced players will know how and when to mash. If your "advanced tactics" are so easily beaten by a newbie, then they aren't advanced at all. Its back to the drawing board. I haven't said i'm an advanced player but oh well, it's not like i lose to mashers anyway. My point is, there's no need to use frame traps, tick throws, resets and stuff like that against mashers, especially with Noel. Even a noob knows how to mash IDs. God knows why positioning and safety is an advanced tactic, zoning and punishing is pretty much the first thing you learn to do in SF.
Mizzet Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Noel's drive hard counters mashing I feel, especially 2d, and to a lesser extent 5d, I triple perfected a Litchi a couple of weeks back, felt good lol. Most inexperienced players also tend to have habits they don't break out of easily, like Ragnas' doing the hell's fang followup on block (free damage!) or Litchis' gattling anything into 3c on block (you can mash 2d out of that 'blockstring' and counterhit the 3c).
whitevoid Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 @kuma. Were you paying attention to the original conversation? Yeah SBO. Smart rush down, only uses normals and very rarely used D, but still gets damage? solid solid solid solid solid... He doesn't really use mixups, but gets hits by poking really really really really well. That kind of thing may work in Japan, but using Noel's normals in America(and Canada by proxy) will only get your normals killed by people mashing a random move. my 5C was stuffed at max range, by Lambda's 5A, and I sobbed. Do you see what I'm getting at? Because honestly, I have no idea what you are on about.
FunkyP Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Honestly some of you guys need to stop talking, this is dustloop we don't discuss scrubbing out out strategies. Regardless of mashing, no one wants to hear about how you guys are approaching low level play, its like listening to kids argue about why the sky is blue. We're here to discuss how Noel can be played to her fullest extent, not "why am I such a scrub"
Sol.Badguy Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 ffs I just started playing Noel yesterday and I practiced for like...5 hours lol but I think I finally got down anything -> Spring Raid -> 66C Lol what a pain in the ass. now what I'm working on are these 2 combos j.bc 2b 6c 5d 2d 623d 66c j.d 6d 5c 6b 236d - I get a tech right before the 6D on this one 3c 22bc 66c 5d 2d 623d 66c 236a 66c j.d 6d 5c 6b 236d - and I get a tech right before the 236A on this one Am I not delaying proporly?
Mizzet Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Yeah, you want to delay the j.d that comes after 66c as much as possible, so it's hitstun doesn't 'overlap' with the 66c's hitstun and get wasted. Need to drag it out as much as possible so it holds till 6d connects. It's kind of tight in that particular combo starting from j.bc, you're on the knife edge of proration at that point, more so than other combos because throws prorate so terribly - getting that much off a j.bc is pretty incredible already. Not sure about the second one, I've never run into that problem before, the tricky part for me is feeling when 236a recovery ends so I can input the next 66c - too early and you won't dash, too late and they'll tech as 236a has lousy hitstun.
Sol.Badguy Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Yeah, you want to delay the j.d that comes after 66c as much as possible, so it's hitstun doesn't 'overlap' with the 66c's hitstun and get wasted. Need to drag it out as much as possible so it holds till 6d connects. It's kind of tight in that particular combo starting from j.bc, you're on the knife edge of proration at that point, more so than other combos because throws prorate so terribly - getting that much off a j.bc is pretty incredible already. Not sure about the second one, I've never run into that problem before, the tricky part for me is feeling when 236a recovery ends so I can input the next 66c - too early and you won't dash, too late and they'll tech as 236a has lousy hitstun. Lol ok cool thanks a lot. It's only been 1 day but she's sooo much fun to play. I just wish I could get that stupid 623D > 66C down better haha, well in time.
Konton Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Is there really any reason to do that 3c combo? It's really not difficult to haida in CS unless your up against Hazama, Makoto, or Tsubaki IMO. 3c -> 22c -> dash (gauge distance during dash animation to hit with tip of 6c) -> (6c -> 22b -> 22c)xN -> ender I tend to 3c -> 22bc -> 66c -> 4d -> Bloom Trigger -> 6c -> (ender) in the corner, but a little haida practice goes a long way and often positions you near the corner for 2b oki and 5a/throw.
Mizzet Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Hehe personally I'm lazy and just do the 623d 66c one since it's universal and only does 100-150ish(roughly, I don't recall the exact difference) less damage compared to a 4 rep haida. Only characters I use haida on are those braindead easy chars like Tager/Haku/Bang. If you have the execution it's certainly better to go for the full haida loop from a min/max perspective though.
Sol.Badguy Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Do you guys ever 3C -> 22BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB to finish someone off? I love how it looks :]
Konton Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 I used to do that in CT to taunt at the end, but you don't get enough time after a win anymore. I played a random Valk online a second ago for the first time, he's easy to haida =]
GunslingerSonic Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Valk is tall, the taller they are, they easier to haida.
ThunderboltZ28 Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 I'm having trouble with the spring raid 66C as well, but I'm starting to connect more often so with more practice I hope to get that down. I'm also getting better at using 22BC-66C. I can't do it again so after 66C I just start my drive. My fightstick comes in tomorrow so I get to learn how to play all over again. Alright.
Konton Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 Wait until you can see Noel on the screen again. By the time you react to that and input the dash -> 66c the combo should go through.
ThunderboltZ28 Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 Wait really? I always thought you had to do it while you can't see her on the screen. That makes more sense.
GunslingerSonic Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 You can Rapid Cancel Spring Raid if you want. It will consume Heat
Chiizu Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 All you can do is practice until you get the timing down really. I wouldn't rely on whether i see Noel or not since your opponent is launched at different heights depending on the pre-Spring Raid drive moves you used. For instance, 6D d.2D 623D sends your opponent lower than 6C(air hit) 5D d.2D 623D. The timing is pretty much the same but you won't be able to rely on your eyes to get the timing down.
Konton Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 I guess I was being a little vague. When you can see Noel again, that's your que to begin to try and time it so that you're hitting them at Noel's eye level. Repetition in training should serve you well. Don't be discouraged online though. You'll still miss it because of lag and subtle input delay. This is mainly the reason I started to focus more on the haida. Aside from having to time the 66c dash fairly specifically, the 22b/22c timing is very lenient because of 22b's massive hit-stun.
Chiizu Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 I guess I was being a little vague. When you can see Noel again, that's your que to begin to try and time it so that you're hitting them at Noel's eye level. Repetition in training should serve you well. Don't be discouraged online though. You'll still miss it because of lag and subtle input delay. This is mainly the reason I started to focus more on the haida. Aside from having to time the 66c dash fairly specifically, the 22b/22c timing is very lenient because of 22b's massive hit-stun. I still think it's much easier to do the 623D 66C link than Haida looping online. Once you've got the timing down you won't miss very often.
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