GG:AC Official Tier List Thread

[axel]

Can someone explain why Potemkin is placed higher than Jam?

[Adelheid]

Can someone explain why Potemkin is placed higher than Jam?

Slidehead

[Hintalove]

I think you meant to say.... pot buster frc

[AKA]

Since everyone is throwing theirs out, so will I! S+: ED, TE S-: SL, PO A: JA, BA, MA, MI, AB, AX B: VE, ZA, OR, FA, RO, DI C: SO, KY, CH, JO, AN D: BR, IN And with no explanation, I am away! Woohoo tierlists!

[AtTheGates]

s: testa, eddie <-- only favourable or equal matchups a+ slayer, pot <-- few mismatches a jam <-- couple of mismatches, still enough bullshit potential b+ baiken, aba, may, millia <-- strong chars with apparent weaknesses b venom, faust, axl, hos <-- a little better than average c sol, chipp, zappa, i-no, robo-ky, ky <-- fail against high tier chars d buri, anji, johnny, dizzy <--

[xenophobian]

imo robo-ky is at least B, dunno why all you people place him that low, other than that i agree with ATGs list, even thoughj it doesn´t matter if you call it a+ or s- , b+ or a-

[reaVer]

ATG: I'd put OS in B+ purely because of the BS potential he has these days. DW: Hmmm, throw something out low if you're not at risk when they jump? What about OS's runjumps+potential fuzzy guard setups? And what if he uses l1Ri to go under your high pokes? Or sweep perhaps? Do you intend to close combat OS?

[Hideki]

How's Sol C? I'd say B. Great tensionless damage (he's not Jam or Slayer right? but GV and WT combos do great/decent damage without tension). Decent zoning: 2+S, S, HS, j.HS... Good okizeme options, he lacks of decent overheads, but has many WT setups/fake setups. Devastating anti-air/wake up options: VV beats almost every single move in the game, and s.K is awesome as anti air.

[Digital Watches]

DW: Hmmm, throw something out low if you're not at risk when they jump? What about OS's runjumps+potential fuzzy guard setups? And what if he uses l1Ri to go under your high pokes? Or sweep perhaps? Do you intend to close combat OS?

Sorry, was this in response to anything? Like... I'm confused as to how you're responding to something I've said.

[AtTheGates]

sol still needs specific situations for his setups and has problems getting close imo.

[Vicioso]

How's Sol C? I'd say B.

Great tensionless damage (he's not Jam or Slayer right? but GV and WT combos do great/decent damage without tension).

Decent zoning: 2+S, S, HS, j.HS...

Good okizeme options, he lacks of decent overheads, but has many WT setups/fake setups.

Devastating anti-air/wake up options: VV beats almost every single move in the game, and s.K is awesome as anti air.

i dont think sol belongs in B tier...he has way too many bad matchups

[Hideki]

Getting close is not that hard with Sol (GF frc used as shield while you run up). GV is also a good choice if you have enough ume to read your oponents moves (and 50% meter to make it safer). PS: Somebody has the most recent matchups list for sol please?

[Spirit Juice]

The people that think Sol is at least B tier are ones that probably don't even play him. In any case, I wouldn't place Axl in B tier for reasons already stated. Exceptional pokes, AA, and above average damage, but doesn't really shine anywhere else. I can see why people would think Sol is B tier, which is understandable, but I'm in the majority of people that believe he's only C tier. He has a lot of issues, and some finer points you would come to understand over time. Basically, Sol is just average, ho-hum, in every aspect of the game; he has nothing outstanding, but nothing terrible. This is the worst he's been, in relation to the rest of the cast, in any GG game. I've been playing him for five years, so believe me when I say that. I'll give a quick list of good and bad match ups for Sol. Not going to use numbers, and any unlisted are even. Bad match ups: Eddie, Slayer, Potemkin, probably Testament, ABA, May, Bridget Good match ups: Anji, I-No.

[Rome]

Getting close is not that hard with Sol (GF frc used as shield while you run up).

GV is also a good choice if you have enough ume to read your oponents moves (and 50% meter to make it safer).

PS: Somebody has the most recent matchups list for sol please?

The opponent isn't going to just block knowing you can easily GF FRC for the pressure and potential mix -up. Against Sol, I know always to expect and GF FRC when poking and when in neutral situations. Since it really doesn't travel that far, and doesn't last to long, IMO its almost impractical to do it unless you know the opponent will block it, if not, you just wasted tension for the circumstances to stay the same. They can easily just jump or IAD foward or back, unless your in a corner where its much more effective.

I'd have to agree with Spirit. When you really start to play with him you can really tell where his problems lie.

[reaVer]

Eh. It could be a playstyle thing, but throwing out low stuff in my opinion is only good when you're not really at that much risk if they jump (IE if they're already doing something or you're too far away for an IAD to get you before you can block.) I think there are better things to do from neutral, not the least of which is just try to get in (Stuff like 2K and 3P, or just running forward and FD breaking.)

DW: this here

[Hideki]

I'm an average Sol player and I understand SJ's points. But still I think is over characters like Zappa, Axl, Order or Dizzy, which are usually above him on the list I've seen around here. Not shining outside of wake up/AA stuff doesn't make it that bad. He's just well balanced. The good ol' days with Teh! Teh! Teh! all day where way better, but I don't see him that far from the rest of the crew in AC.

[CrimsonDisaster]

Ky B-tier???

i just cant see that, he just seems average, his damage output is beyond weak, he can do a little of everything but doesnt do anything that great, alot of characters are better than him imo

He doesn't do anything great? Damage output beyond weak? Way to live in #R.

Ky is really really good at a few things, namely sticking out pokes that will probably cream whatever gets in their way, frametrap/throw stuff, oki off like every combo that leads back into a combo, etc.

If the only combos you are landing are throw FRC whatever, and 2K into whatever, then yeah his damage output would seem bad, but Ky gets lots of chances to do pretty decent damage. Anti-air 6P/2H/jP/jK into VT loop is pretty good damage for a tensionless combo that sets up a 5-way mixup. Any kind of guardbar raise into orb -> VT loop combo can be an easy 40-50% or so, and Ky is pretty good at building up guardbar while setting up frametraps.

Do I think he's a great character? No, but he's no pushover. B rank is right, he's better than the Sols and Zappas and I-Nos of AC, but he's certainly not as good as the Jams and Baikens and Axls. Once you get into that range, it's not about what you do well, it's about how much BS damage you do off whatever BS launcher move anyways.

[shinquickman]

Eh. It could be a playstyle thing, but throwing out low stuff in my opinion is only good when you're not really at that much risk if they jump (IE if they're already doing something or you're too far away for an IAD to get you before you can block.) I think there are better things to do from neutral, not the least of which is just try to get in (Stuff like 2K and 3P, or just running forward and FD breaking.)

Timewise, yeah, an Axl match isn't totally spent on people guessing against your reach attacks. Most of it is actually spent positioning and getting at uncomfortable distances as you said. My assessment is that the points that can matter most in an Axl match is when you start to use your reach attacks to get some movement out of your opponent.

But yeah, I agree with a lot of what you're saying now that you phrase it differently. It'd be fun to play you some time. (And Smoov, for that matter.)

Likewise.

I guess the only real problem I have with your list is... Your B tier is huge and your A tier is tiny! I think at least May, Axl, and ABA should be in A (And ABA's just too low in general)

May and Axl have apparent weaknesses when you compare them to Po and Jam IMO. Though they probably should be ranked higher than guys like Venom and HOS. I unno, B+, A-?

Moving along. Wow, it's weird how so many people put Anji in gutter teir.

Anji, is not a perfect character, at all. His poke game is perhaps, the worst. Air game, actually one of the better chars, IMO, but it doesn't get him far (low damage output). Mixup and rushdown, good as well... let's put all that aside.

There's a reason he can't be totally bad. He's got a panic button. If everything goes wrong, H Fuujin. When things aren't going your way, you can throw this out, and if you land it, great, you just got a 50% combo into knockdown into mix up with potential for another 50% combo (well it may be less thanks to guts, but beyond the point).

Before someone asserts "Uh, yeah, it's AC, anyone can turn the match in one move", I would like to say this then. NOT EVERYONE has a panic button. I'd say only about 7 chars have moves that fit the description (Jam w/ FB puffball, Sol w/ VV RC, Testament w/ forward beast, May, Pot, and Slayer are like giant piles of panic buttons, and Anji w/ huujin). Every chars have a chance to turn a match, obviously, but not w/ just one move (Millia needs to set up oki, ABA has to get into Moroha, Axl has to trick people into the air).

In no way are panic buttons safe to use, nor am I suggesting 'yeah you can like totally win by mashing'. More that, if you have a single move that can lead to a killing combo and be used in a wide amount of situations, by default, this makes you at least contendable w/ every chars in the roster. Now put back everything else Anji has, great oki options, unblockable setup, hard to touch in the air, autoguard to get out of pressure, traded off w/ bad pokes, and I think you got a char that can play at worst near contendable w/ everyone else. He's got 2 notably bad matches (May, Axl), 5 bad matches (Jam, Slayer, Venom, Ky, Sol), and the rest I think he can go evenly (even Eddie and Po).

Do I-no and Bridget have tools that make them contendable w/ every single chars?

I-no, like Anji, has no pokes. She has a projectile that can be used here and there, rushdown, ridiculous mix-up and oki, backed up by good damage, but horrible at escaping pressure. The only thing she's got over Anji is a so-so projectile which you mainly use on chars w/ no projectile anyway. So you have a char that can rush the crap out of others, yet can get equally rushed the crap out of, and is easily outgunned. By default, you're gonna have trouble against most chars, and have complete trouble against the rest. She's got like 4 notably bad matches (May, Axl, Jam, Eddie), 6 bad matches (Venom, Ky, Slayer, Potemkin, Testament, Faust), and the rest are at least a sore.

I can't say much for Bridget, but in general having low defense and low damage output in exchange for okay zoning, okay oki, okay mixup, okay rushdown, and good hit-and-run (can contend w/ Chipp) is not enough.

[Senkei]

i think sol could hold his own on b-tier he can get great damage off lows with no tension used and has pretty good air moves, his loops are generally easy to get off and he can get damage without sidewinders...he builds up guard bar good and he has viper sol isn't complete shit he does have his bad matches but he can tip them over in his favor if he play accordingly

his speed/jump is good and his normals are not horrible, he is not complete trash--- just above average = b tier

and how the fuck is slayer a bad matchup for sol??? i've been watching sol's crush some slayers lately american and jap...viper takes away alot of slayer trickyness on oki, grandviper smashes dandy and mappa .... then slayer is in the air and sol is faster in that regard....also his body is hard as hell to combo with slayer his whole lower part of his body has no hitbox

example: http://youtube.com/watch?v=7d9eg7se1lk

i agree with may tho man that's and ugly match

[Jais]

Why Slayer is a bad match-up for Sol: 5K - Sol can't get inside without special move 2S - Sol can't jump in 5P - See above, but safer j.P - See above, but safer j.K - Starts unprorated aircombo 6P - trades with GV for a combo, clashes with VV, beats riot stomp. 2Hit untech is the easiest to hit on Sol Combos against Sol are easy, you just have to do the right ones. Mindless combos don't influence tiers anyway. Sol can't get inside w/out taking a huge risk. bdc mappa CH command grab 6P trades grand viper Riot stomp always loses VV = death b/c too many ways to safely bait. Only way it's a bad match-up for Slayer is if Slayer is mindlessly rushing to get inside, Slayer doesn't NEED to be inside to win this fight at all. 2H. If Slayer is using dandy to get out of pressure or mappa to get inside (which SHOULDN'T be done in this match cause you don't need to) he will get rocked by a special move. Bottom line - Sol's ways to get inside or counter what Slayer is trying to do all lead to Sol throwing out risky moves that get punished... by Slayer. Slayer doing what he does in this matchup is generally safe from all of Sol's answers. Fuck. This is MacArthur Blunts.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Slayer can 6P FRC on wakeup to completely defeat VV. Sol is really not that great, guys. He's not bad by any means, but hella limited in comparison to many characters in AC. His mixups are linear and simple to escape in many regards. 1F jumping destroys most of his command grab mixups. He can do great damage without tension but most of his tensionless starters are unsafe or too trickshot/reliant on counterhits. Most of his good combo starters require some tension (VV RC, BR RC, GF FRC). The fact that he is overly reliant on GF FRC for offense means not as many opportunities to deal out good damage safely. I see folks saying he's better than HOS, but he has pretty much the exact same weakness as HOS in that he loses if he can't get inside. The difference is that HOS is better off once he gets inside due to better mixup and better pressure, the only downfall being that his damage isn't as consistent (but that doesn't matter if you can't land a hit). HOS is generally way safer than Sol on almost everything. His tools at range are also better thanks to having a vastly superior Force Break that has a fuckton of range and always knocks down plus giving huge damage at closer ranges/counterhit. He also has the option of charging at range if his opponent gives him trouble closing distance, which gives him better tools for getting close and dealing damage or locking someone down. With consistent damage and slightly better anti-air being the only thing Sol really has over HOS, I don't see how people want to rank Sol higher.

[Spirit Juice]

If you seriously think VV destroys Slayer's options against Sol then you need to wake up. Do you realize how ignorant that is? VV beats practically any option against any character at the right distance. That's a completely ignorant thing to say since you know how risky a random VV is. Random VV = very high risk/low reward ratio unless you have 50% meter. It's really easy to get caught up in the "but VV beats xxx option" hype, but really... think about the risk and reward before saying something like that... ESPECIALLY in AC, and ESPECIALLY against characters that do huge amounts of damage on punish.

[Hintalove]

I'm just mostly curious as to May's "apparent weaknesses" when compared with Jam are. May is just as retarded in this game, and she has a command grab to boot. Shes up there contending for top damage, and if the bitch has 25% tension she can combo you from basically anything. This coupled with her wtf pwn normals really makes her a pain in the ass for any character that needs to get close. I wouldn't put her on par with the likes of pot, but I wouldn't put Jam, or any one outside of the top 3 up there either.

[taraction]

not to mention that slayer can make your wake-up vv whiff, and you can't rc whiffed vipers.

[Vicioso]

He doesn't do anything great? Damage output beyond weak? Way to live in #R.

Ky is really really good at a few things, namely sticking out pokes that will probably cream whatever gets in their way, frametrap/throw stuff, oki off like every combo that leads back into a combo, etc.

If the only combos you are landing are throw FRC whatever, and 2K into whatever, then yeah his damage output would seem bad, but Ky gets lots of chances to do pretty decent damage. Anti-air 6P/2H/jP/jK into VT loop is pretty good damage for a tensionless combo that sets up a 5-way mixup. Any kind of guardbar raise into orb -> VT loop combo can be an easy 40-50% or so, and Ky is pretty good at building up guardbar while setting up frametraps.

Do I think he's a great character? No, but he's no pushover. B rank is right, he's better than the Sols and Zappas and I-Nos of AC, but he's certainly not as good as the Jams and Baikens and Axls. Once you get into that range, it's not about what you do well, it's about how much BS damage you do off whatever BS launcher move anyways.

im sorry but ky is not B tier

He is average, he has nothing overwhelming...just average at everything

and YES his damage output sucks, how does it not? have you seen everyone elses?