Spirit Juice Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 Hatred Edge didn't know that order of the tiers outside of being ranked S, A, B, etc. was no indication of which characters were better within that rank (i.e. Potemkin being before Slayer, thus making him better than Slayer). Now he knows, so leave him alone.
ky0n01 Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 I can see how they would put Ky in C, although I do think he's B. What's wrong with Slayer being A rank? In most tier lists he is A rank, close to being S, so it's not unbelievable that he was ranked A in this list. I can't see how slayer fit in A tier though...So jam and baiken is on the same level as him? fine then he is A++
Spirit Juice Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 Jam and Baiken are retardedly good and are worthy of being in A tier. General opinion is that Slayer is the third best character in the game at A tier.
shinquickman Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 IMO Chipp is the only one that's waaay out there. Everything else seems in place, though I can imagine Jam going down to B, and Venom going down to C.
Teyah Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 With permission from GB, I am reopening this thread. Please keep discussion on-topic and avoid pointless/spam comments, as they will not be tolerated. Opening post updated: I've consolidated the first posts with previous translations on Eddie, Millia, Dizzy, and Bridget. I've also added the raw data/rankings for A.B.A, Faust, and Zappa, all of which still require translation. If anyone out there could translate these remaining three, it would be much appreciated.
NeoUmbra Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 Why so many C's? Personally i dont see how Millia dropped from A to C. Imo, Faust, Millia and ABA should be moved to B, Robo and Order Sol, MAYBE. Personally i rathered the previous one.
ajinkris Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 Why so many C's? Personally i dont see how Millia dropped from A to C. Imo, Faust, Millia and ABA should be moved to B, Robo and Order Sol, MAYBE. Personally i rathered the previous one. "As originally printed in the May 2008 issue of Tougeki Damashi magazine:" Ask the Japanese.
deci Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 S: Eddie, Testament A: Potemkin, Baiken, Jam, Slayer B: May, Axl, Venom C: Sol, Ky, Millia, Faust, Anji, Dizzy, Zappa, Robo-Ky, ABA, Order-Sol D: Chipp, Johnny, I-No, Bridget That list looks pretty accurate to me. The only things out of place to me are that may, millia, and chipp could move up a rank. Other than that it looks good. Lol at everyone that thinks Slayer is S tier. (or DW who actually thinks he's better than Eddie and Testament) I've been asking people forever why the dustloop tier list has him in S when theres 3 japanese tier lists below it and 2 of them have him in A (3 if you count the fact that the bottom list was supposed to count twice). And I've heard most japanese lists have him in A? Slayer could very well be the top of A tier, but Eddie and Testament are quite a bit above everyone else in terms of favorable matchups. Unfortunately only people who don't play Slayer think he is that good. Yes it is extremely easy to win with Slayer vs anybody who doesn't know how to play against him but try using Slayer vs a good Testament, or Potemkin, or Eddie, or May, or Ky... etc. Once you play an opponent that knows how to block or counter hit 6k, blocks random bbu, and god forbid IB's any of Slayer's block strings... it's a whole other story. Sorry for the rant, Slayer is easy mode to win with against a lot of people. But honestly just try playing him against good competition and you'll see why he's not S tier.
Hellmonkey Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 But honestly just try playing any character against good competition and you'll see why it's not worth talking about tiers for AC. fixed.
ajinkris Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 fixed. Lime-Key won a large 3v3 tourney with Anji. Koichi won DF2 2v2 with I-no. BLEED was on the second team place @ SBO 2007 with Johnny. Mugen was in the top 8 of SBO 2008 with Buri. QFT. Skill > tiers. Get hype.
Teyah Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 While it is true that skill is often the deciding factor, tiers certainly do influence competitive play; to say otherwise would be quite foolish. But honestly just try playing any character against good competition and you'll see why it's not worth talking about tiers for AC. This thread is here for with basic information, rankings, and discussion of each character's strengths and weaknesses relative to the rest of the cast. Akin to coming into a combos thread and saying 'optimal combos are not important', comments like these do not promote discussion and therefore have no place here.
Teyah Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 Very old, I believe those lists and matchup chart were released only a few months after AC arcade release in Japan (~March 2007). It's generally agreed that there are significant inaccuracies in that chart.
Spirit Juice Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 how up to date is this? Ancient. Most of the info on there is not reliable.
frtpunchsamurai Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 The only things out of place to me are that may, millia, and chipp could move up a rank. Other than that it looks good. Just try playing may,millia and chipp against good competition and you'll see why. Sorry for the rant, Slayer is easy mode to win with against a lot of people. But honestly just try playing him against good competition and you'll see why he's not S tier.
deci Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 Just try playing may,millia and chipp against good competition and you'll see why. do you have anything to actually back this comment? i'm saying slayer is top of A tier, but just not as good as eddie and testament which takes him out of s tier. he's easy mode to win with against a lot of people because in the us, most people have horrible defense and cannot even block 6k or realize that he is probably the easiest character in the game to ib. as far as may, millia, and chipp. all i said is that they could move up one tier, i never said any of these characters are as good as slayer. the japanese are much more informed than i am obviously, so i'm sure they have their reasons for the low tiers. but chipp seems much stronger than the rest of the characters in D tier. he seems fitted for bottom of C tier. millia seems like solid b tier and japanese tier lists for a long time had her at A tier. may is a really good character as well and has also been A tier in most of the old japanese tier lists, and after this SBO performance i wouldn't be surprised to see her move back to A tier. As hellmonkey said... skill matter more than tiers in this game. but all i am saying is that slayer is not S tier. i wonder why so many people are so against this idea. bottom line. show me the tournament results that prove slayer is S tier. why isn't he winning more tournaments?
MacArthur Blunts Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 Deci, SBO... 1st place: May, Venom, Robo (none are S tier) Are they S-Tier now? No. Slayer is so broken. People just don't get it yet. Just think about it... He has the best stuff in the game.
Chomite Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 When we are talking about tiers, aren't we strictly only talking about character's capability? Not person's skill who is using that character?
MacArthur Blunts Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 Yeah. Give Slayer to a perfect robot GG bot and he will never lose ever.
Spirit Juice Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 Yeah. Give Slayer to a perfect robot GG bot and he will never lose ever. By that logic, he'll lose to perfect robot GG bots that play Testament and Eddie. :\
Dr. Stormlocke Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 Posting in awesome thread because Robots are being discussed. Posting in awesome thread because I am a huge proponent of giving Vampires to Robots. I'd also like to state that Robo is a solid mid-tier character, C is completely appropriate. As time goes on I find myself yawning as I rely on his 3 frame startup SRK super & his 20 frame fastest Dust in the game (and Dusts are already unblockable in America) to win matches. He's got lots of fun gimmicky stuff, but often it doesn't get the job done. The only person trying to innovate with him right now is Nezu, and he'll always be living in Dogura's shadow. All right, back to Cylon-Replicant-Vampire discussion.
deci Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 Deci, SBO... 1st place: May, Venom, Robo (none are S tier) Are they S-Tier now? No. Slayer is so broken. People just don't get it yet. Just think about it... He has the best stuff in the game. The results of one tournament does not dictate which character is what tier, but when one character rarely ever wins any tournaments. Don't you think it's kind of silly to say that he is "so broken"? hell i keep hearing how there are SO many slayer players in japan now, but why is it so few of them could actually qualify for sbo? shouldn't a character that broken be easier to get into sbo with than the 4 or 5 other character's that there are more of? Theory fighter is fun and all, but when do you draw the line and look at results? Or is your counter argument going to be that slayer players in general are just not good enough? (yet?) Yeah. Give Slayer to a perfect robot GG bot and he will never lose ever. Mac i have tons of respect for you, but this is the dumbest thing i've ever seen you post. actually i'm pretty sure you were joking when you wrote it, but here's a real reply just in case you were not: how would you even define the perfect gg bot? wouldn't they by definition never get hit? wouldn't the other perfect gg bot they were fighting against never get hit either? wouldn't the end result be whatever character is better at doing chip damage or getting tension to be able to fd and slash back? wouldn't it come down to which character has better priority and can keep their pressure going the longest? wouldn't a fire ball or zoning character always win this? wouldn't perfect bots just slash back everything? and even if this were hypothetically possible, wouldn't a perfect bot completely negate a character's ability to mix up since it will always block perfect? how would perfect slayer ever beat perfect testament? or perfect ky? or perfect axl? or perfect venom? etc... but since we're on this topic of perfect bots, i have an honest question about how tier lists are made in the first place. people always say how tiers are all about a character's potential and not about player's ability, but shouldn't it actually be the character's practical potential that counts? if a character is capable of something but it's so hard to pull off that nobody will ever do it in a match, then what's the point of factoring this into a tier list? where do you draw that line of what is practically possible and what is not?
Hellmonkey Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=225229&postcount=715
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