The "Picking a Main" thread

[Airk]

OK, so after playing for a few days Rushdown doesn't seem to work for me. Who in Persona 4 has the best defensive playstyle? Sorry for asking things like this, but I've been away from fighting games for a long time and I'm struggling to get back into this genre.

Why not just try everyone and see who clicks? It's not like there are that many characters, and it sounds like you've already ruled out like half of them.

[Sneaky_SMITUS]

Does anybody know of a character who has solid rushdown with strong normals with a side of mix- ups? I play Yang and Honda in SF4 so I'm a complete rookie at this game.

[fernleigh1986]

Does anybody know of a character who has solid rushdown with strong normals with a side of mix- ups? I play Yang and Honda in SF4 so I'm a complete rookie at this game.

I have played a bit online, and I have played in some extremely laggy matches, still though, playing smart will get you a win. Its a simple wait for them to mess up and punish, hell just waiting for them whiff a move and punish with a simple headbutt is a lot better than just randomly throwing one out there. And it does happen offline, certain people get scared when they see a Honda walking towards them, especially if they know they are fighting a good one.

[Airk]

... the heck does any of that have to do with the topic? o.o

Uh, okay. Smitus; You might like Mitsuru - she's moderately rushdown and has strong normals, and she's a charge character, so she might feel familiar to you from playing Honda. Alternatively, either Chie or Akihiko might suit you well; Both of them are shorter ranged than Mitsuru, but Chie has a +frames jab and Akihiko has generally strong normals, but his mixup is a bit weak.

You might also want to experiment with Teddie.

[Sneaky_SMITUS]

Thanks man. When I get P4A, those will be the ones I'll flock towards. But what abut Blazblue though? I'm like a fish outta water here.

[Architect]

Hi, I'd like to know what's a good Blazblue character that's relatively rushdown with good pressure. Just got Calamity Trigger and a ported Continuum Shift through... unmentionable methods for PC. I'm a relatively casual player with little experience in FGs, who still uses a keyboard and is rather ignorant to the whole concept of frame advantages and the smaller details and just uses presets i learn from websites like this haha, the fighting games I feel I'm more familiar with are MBAC, MBAA and Hisoutensoku. I don't think Hisouten really contributes much though since it's so different.

My general character choices were

MBAC : Main : Nanaya , Sub : Aoko

MBAA : Main : C/H Aoko (Played C originally, I suck at making use of zoning so played H) , Sub : H Ryougi and F S.Akiha

Hisouten : Patchy and Reisen

I've been fiddling around a bit in CS with Hazama, Noel, and Makoto. Haven't touched the other characters hence the inquiry here. Makoto originally caught my eye because of how that comet cannon reminds me of Aoko but I can't seem to play her very well at all, getting beat by the AI on NORMAL for gods sake. Hazama feels relatively clunky so far, however I absolutely love the mechanics with his chains. I'm rather comfortable playing Noel as of now, I got down a couple of combos from the wiki and to a very small extent that Haida loop, don't see how it can be used against a human though.

Oh gosh, realizing I've gone on rambling. Anyways some suggestions please?

[excelence]

... Each character on BBCS have their own Rush down gameplay, and to be honest i really can't compare it with MB where the rush down is brutal as hell, frame advantage almost doesn't mean anything since u can just whiff cancel almost everything ... played Hisouten a bit, Noel Combos/pressure is pretty simillar with Reisen with Massive hit/blockstun imho ... and for Patchy, probably you should Try Lambda ... Hazama is close to those annoying Patchy ... zoning all day long and punish your opponent mistakes hard.

[Airk]

As Excelence says, almost everyone in BB can "rush down" to a certain extent - even Lambda, who is nominally the 'pure zoning character' is well served by going in for up close and personal mixup after her sickle-storm okizeme.

From a pure 'stay in your face and don't let them get away' standpoint (ala Yang) you're looking at a choice of Ragna, Valkenhayn, Bang, Noel, Tsubaki and Makoto. In extend, that's roughly the tier order, though you can argue Ragna/Valk, Bang/Noel and Makoto/Tsubaki back and forth a lot. From a slightly more "patient" rushdown (for whatever reason), you are looking at Hakumen, Tao, Jin, and Litchi. (again in extremely vague tier order). You'll have to work with me on the 'patient' here - these are characters that either NEED to be patient because they don't have fast ways in (Hakumen) or can AFFORD to be patient beause they work a little better at non-point-blank ranges (Litchi, Jin), or can move around so damn fast that "getting in" isn't really the issue (Tao. Though you could argue valk is in this category too.).

It's kinda hard to go wrong picking a main in this game at this point, though you may want to be a tiny bit wary of Makoto and Tsubaki, because overall they have to work harder than the rest of the cast. For more info on various folks, there's always the Dustloop Wiki for BBCS:EX, which has good info on...uh.. some of the characters. (It has all the frame data, but the subjective writeups on each character and their tools are of variable quality.). Also, I wrote up this stupid high-level sketch on all the characters a while ago, and I like reading my own text, so:

• Arakune: One of the most nonstandard characters in the game, still. His gameplan depends on stalling for time and applying enough pressure to land moves that curse his opponent, rather than really worrying about doing any meaningful amount of damage. Once he curses his opponent, he's quite capable of ending the round in a single big combo if his opponent can't hold him off long enough.
  
• Bang: A high mobility, close range character with some deceptive tricks. Bang has pretty good mixup with high/low, a command throw, and crossups, and he has a limited supply of nails that he can use to apply pressure/control space/set up mixups.
  
• Carl: Another thoroughly nonstandard character, Carl is almost two characters in one, since the player controls his robotic 'sister' as well as well as Carl himself. Carl has low health and iffy pressure on his own, but if he can get an opponent trapped between himself and Nirvana, he has extremely punishing mixup (verging on the unblockable with the right setups) and brutal resets that can end a match quickly.
  
• Hakumen: A character for the patient, Hakumen consumes his 'heat' ('super') gauge with all his special moves, though it fills on its own over time. His normals control a lot of space and his drive is a counterattack mechanic that can be used to turn things around if you can predict your opponent. He's somewhat lacking in mobility, however.
  
• Hazama: A pretty unique character, with an unusual style of mobility; He's bad at moving around via 'normal' methods, and his normals lack range, but he has extremely strong mobility and space control capabilities using his chains. He's also an explosive character, because while his 'general' midscreen (and even corner) damage is forgettable, certain starters lead into a LOT of damage, and he can use 50 meter to turn almost any hit into a large combo.
  
• Jin: Jin is well rounded and maybe the closest thing the game has to a 'standard' style character. He controls space very well at a number of different ranges and has a mean air game, but his mixup is a little weak, and he has to compensate by being tricky. Easy to play, hard to master.
  
• Lambda-11: The one really dedicated zoning character in the game; Lambda can potentially hit almost anywhere on the screen at neutral, but you'll need good reflexes and smart reads to make sure that your attacks go where your opponent does. Played well, she can keep most opponents from ever getting near enough to threaten her, closing in only for combo damage, and then backing away before they can recover.
  
• Litchi: While a relative 'standard' character, Litchi switches between, essentially, two 'stances' depending on whether she is holding her staff or not, and her gameplay is dependant on being able to switch fluidly between them, and use the projectile properties of her staff to create openings. She also has some of the strongest corner 'oki' in the game, which can make it very hard for opponents to escape once she pins them down in the corner.
  
• Makoto: A fairly straightforward rushdown character, with quick movement, short range normals, and fairly strong mixup (Fast overhead, tricky stuff with Asteroid vision). Currently considered a little bit weak due to not really having anything on par with Bang's mobility and nails, which forces her to work harder to get in and stay in.
  
• Mu-12: A sort of half-zoning character, with long range normals and a variety of projectiles that work in unusual ways and can be used to apply pressure or set up approaches. Has huge damage potential, but relatively weak mixup.
  
• Noel: Another relatively short ranged character, Noel has a number of attacks with strange invulnerability properties on them and applying those attacks to counter your opponent's options is key to her game.
  
• Platinum: A close to mid-range character whose playstyle changes based on what random item she has at any given time. Each item gives her a strong option, and being able adjust on the fly to take advantage of each one is crucial for her game.
  
• Rachel: A weird combination of pressure and zoning, Rachel has the ability to put a lot of different...stuff on the screen to either keep her opponent out, or create an opening for herself to go in and do damage. She has the ability to enhance her mobility through the use of her drive as well, but using too much of her wind gauge moving around seriously decreases her ability to do damage, since many of her combos require wind.
  
• Ragna: Ragna is a pretty basic character with good mid-range attacks, and strong defensive and mixup options. He gets a lot of damage off just about everything, and is pretty much the 'flavor of the month' for folks who want the best results for the least work.
  
• Relius: Sortof a "character and a half" compared to Carl's two. His 'partner' Ignis, moves around independantly of him as a result of many of his moves, and can be used to create a sort of tag-team pressure. Not as devastating as Carl, but a bit more consistant.
  
• Tager: Tager is a grappler, so he's got low mobility, and big damage. Very strong against some opponents, but struggles against characters that can 'lame him out' by getting a life lead and running away. Still pretty solid this time around though.
  
• Taokaka: If Bang is "highly mobile" Tao takes it up to 11. Plays like pretty much no character ever, anywhere, with her ability to zoom around the screen and attack from all sorts of crazy angles. Not an easy character for most people to learn, but capable of really blowing people up in the right hands.
  
• Tsubaki: Another relatively close range character, who charges a special guage to get access to 'powered up' versions of her special moves. Her mixup is kindof weak, however, and without charge her damage potential is kindof low. Needs to outplay her opponent to get the win and currently overshadowed by other 'rushdown' characters that don't require as much resource management to be effective.
  
• Valkenhayn: A high mobility/low mobility character - low mobility in human form, high mobility and strong mixup in a gauge-limited wolf form. Potentially very strong, but requires a good understanding of how to move around in wolf form and when to revert back to human to reach anything like his max potential.
  

[Architect]

Wow that response looked like it had a lot of thought put into it O__O. Thanks for such detailed input.

I've kind of decided to stick with Noel for now because she's who I feel most comfortable with. After I get a decent grip on her I'll probably move onto Lambda, perhaps some Hazama which I'll probably fail at. Lambda's drives seem OP from what I see.

I read a little earlier into this thread and saw a couple posts echoing the point of Makoto having a very steep learning curve, I guess I'll avoid her because tbh after watching some videos, particularly this and this (same player, pretty cool stuff xD) her damage output isn't spectacular, seeing as how Noel can outdo her, admittedly there are character stats to factor in but I don't think it's worth the apparent effort. Kind of weird reasoning, hope you get it, if anything I should just play more and learn as I go along. Anyhow thanks for all the help, I'll get to it haha.

EDIT : So turns out my arcade port doesn't have Makoto, this sucks. D:

Edited August 28, 2012 by Architect

[Airk]

I've kind of decided to stick with Noel for now because she's who I feel most comfortable with.

This is really the best way to pick someone.

Lambda's drives seem OP from what I see.

I don't normally pick on stuff like this, but this is...completely inaccurate. Lambda's drives, while excellent at controlling space, don't really lead into a lot of damage, and if she whiffs one, it gets her into a lot of trouble. While they are not -weak-, her drive moves are FAR from overpowered at any sort of competitive level.

[Sneaky_SMITUS]

Decided to main either Bang or Tsubaki, and as a secret weapon Valkenhayn. Thanks for all of that information it really helped me decide who to play. Though I may try others just for fun. Just gonna practice even harder I guess.

[VivoDePyre]

I picked up P4A recently, wanted to work my way into the more competitive scene of fighting games. I played a fair bit of BB and tried Skull Girls, but I'm only mediocre at BB and terrible at Skull Girls. The biggest difference is that I have PS3 and now I have online potential. But to skip the inane details, I mostly do spacing games. I don't like being close to my opponent, I'd prefer to keep my distance and occasionally punish. It just so happens that characters of this sort are generally hard to play. I'm still a novice, so I can't play these characters well.

I gave various characters a try and really liked playing Naoto. Yukiko was nice, but I love having my traps. I tried playing Lambda in Blazblue and found pathetic damage because my execution is bad. I'm finding similar issues with Naoto in that the only things I can execute well is my pound combo and my AoA aerial follow up. However, I can't seem to start up my combos without reverting to the same bad behaviors. Unless a combo consists of really common bread and butter connections (236b to bx5 for instance), I can't work the combo. Similarly, if the combo is a bit lengthy, I can't keep up with it and follow through. Worst of all, when I get to an actual fight my mind blanks and I just resort to mashing out buttons. My brain feels like it's lagging to find the actual combo so I just start attacking wildly so I don't miss my punishment window.

So why is it that I keep picking all these long combo dependent characters? Should I settle for a character that has higher damage for less execution and work on changing my habits? Should I spend more time grinding out combos until they've become muscle memory and happen naturally? I suppose the more logical choice would be to learn good execution and to calm down during a battle, but I'm really not enjoying myself playing a difficult character as a newbie.

[Airk]

You're not going to get easier execution by picking an easier character - not at the level you're currently performing at. When people say a character is "easy to play" they don't mean "Yeah, you can do fine just by doing your mash A combo." You're going to have to improve your execution regardless of which character you play. None of the ones you've listed are remarkable in their "long combo requirements" - except maybe for Naoto's SMP loop, which is well beyond what you're trying to do right now.

So no, I don't think you should play a different character. I think you should be practicing and taking it slow.

First, go into training mode. Pick a nice short, easy to remember combo - probably just something out of challenge mode - and do it. Repeatedly. Until you can get it 5 times in a row. At least. On each side. Start with basically the easiest combo you can find that you can't do yet.

Second, play against the AI for a bit in arcade mode or training mode - take your combo and just GO for it. This is particularly easy in training mode - just set the dummy for AI mode, set health to regenerating and just fight it out... where the only thing you EVER do is try to get a hit into the combo you're trying to practice. Eventually it'll just start to happen, and presto, you have a combo you can use in a real match.

Right now, it just sounds like you're looking for a magic character who will let you do combos without practicing them, and that's not going to happen.

[VivoDePyre]

Fair enough. I can't say I've had better luck on other characters either. While I understand each character is going to require a fair bit of practice to be good with, I just can't help but be intimidated when I see low health and high execution reading through the dustloop wiki. I'm wondering if it's better for new players to main a more forgiving character rather than just jumping into a more difficult one.

[iora]

Play who you like in all honestly.

Easier characters can be used to help you understand the game, but once thats done, play the character you like playing the best... so you will WANT to keep playing/training/improving.

It was my biggest problem in several games: Not having character love, so I never stuck with anything.

The problem here is you need to work on your abilities, independent of things like your character choice. Combos come with time and practice, and everyone has to work for them.

If you want someone who has the easiest damage-to-combo-difficulty ratio, play kanji or labrys or maybe yu. Those characters have other problems though, and they all have real combos you need to learn to improve beyond beginner.

TL:DR

Play who you like, and actually work on your play. You will need to learn combos, so just work at it and you will eventually get it.

[Agni]

Ask yourself one question: "Do I enjoy playing this character?"

If the answer to that is "yes", then keep playing that character! Use who you want, even if they're a little difficult; I'm as much of a noob as you (actually, I'm probably worse), but in P4A I play a character with awful health who can die if you make one mistake (Elizabeth) and one who is very powerful and simple but has many awful matchups (Labrys). It's not easy using them, but I like them a lot, so I stick with them.

[DizzySaxophone]

I'm with everyone else on this, keep practicing and just make sure you like the character you're playing with and having fun. If not you just won't enjoy playing at all and you'll get burnt out.

Spend time in training mastering the execution, then take it against the AI then finally against real people. You'll get there, heck I'm still trying to get there myself.

[Shazam]

Similarly, if the combo is a bit lengthy, I can't keep up with it and follow through. Worst of all, when I get to an actual fight my mind blanks and I just resort to mashing out buttons. My brain feels like it's lagging to find the actual combo so I just start attacking wildly so I don't miss my punishment window.

So why is it that I keep picking all these long combo dependent characters? Should I settle for a character that has higher damage for less execution and work on changing my habits? Should I spend more time grinding out combos until they've become muscle memory and happen naturally? I suppose the more logical choice would be to learn good execution and to calm down during a battle, but I'm really not enjoying myself playing a difficult character as a newbie.

As everyone said you seriously haven't spent enough time in training mode. Picking a different character isn't the problem, character love and dedication is much more important in this kind of game. If you like Naoto, play Naoto.

You just have the wrong mind set about combos, especially during the match. The hard part is supposed to be getting the first hit in, not the combo itself.

You should spend more time in the lab and practicing combos that have already been discovered and be completely familiarized with your character - to the point of making the right confirms off of every hit, knowing what you can confirm into big damage and stuff like that. You don't need to spend too much time, but the more time you put into it the better the result of course. At least put in a good 30 minutes to an hour before you do an online session, with all that practice you won't 'blank out' quite as much.

[Anfingrimm]

I have two playstyles outside of fighting games: Hitting/shooting things and hitting/shooting things in the back. With that in mind, I figured the former was a better choice in BB, so I'd reckon Ragna is my main. Problem is, I want Hazama to be my main. I'm nowhere near as good as I could be with him and I can't combo for shit, but he's just such a cool character and a fun villain. I just don't have the dexterity to master him.

[Airk]

I have two playstyles outside of fighting games: Hitting/shooting things and hitting/shooting things in the back. With that in mind, I figured the former was a better choice in BB, so I'd reckon Ragna is my main. Problem is, I want Hazama to be my main. I'm nowhere near as good as I could be with him and I can't combo for shit, but he's just such a cool character and a fun villain. I just don't have the dexterity to master him.

Practice more.

[Raging Ghost]

Practice more.

Even then, I can't pull off some of the combos in Challenge mode for any character, which is why I went ''screw it'' and go to Persona 4 Arena. I did the majority of Aigis, Yu and Naoto's challenges.

[Airk]

There's nothing particularly difficult about them - Persona 4 combos are actually a little tougher for me due to the relative lack of hitstop meaning that you really have to input the moves quickly. Maybe you just mash too hard?

[Anfingrimm]

Well, not all of us are hardcore fighting gamers. The only other fighter I've ever played seriously was Mortal Kombat, and I can't even get my fix of that because the new one is banned here.

[Airk]

Well, not all of us are hardcore fighting gamers. The only other fighter I've ever played seriously was Mortal Kombat, and I can't even get my fix of that because the new one is banned here.

In fact, most of us aren't "hardcore fighting gamers"; It usually takes me weeks to learn a new combo.

[YukiBlue]

That's funny. I keep seeing people remark about how P4A is one of the easiest Airdashers to combo in. Less Hitstop shouldn't really phase anyone after a couple of hours.

And Hazama Eh?....

Well. Aside from 3C CH + 214D-C etc. You don't really need that much execution. He has some high level stuff like everyone else. But movement, pressure and mixups are damn important to him too. Just as much as the combos themselves.

Edited September 9, 2012 by YukiBlue