BB:CS Match-Up Chart

[Dacidbro]

You live in MX. Is there an arcade/comp in MX?

I digress though. I personally completely agree that CS' top tier is better. Just pointing out that trend.

[Manta]

Remember after #Reload coming out how everyone was saying how much better it was and how XX was a piece of shite in comparison. Then the moment Slash was played people instantly turned on #Reload saying how Eddie's lockdown was stupid, Slayer's stun ability was BS etc etc...

Let's hope this continues actually, because it'll mean the next BB will be a lot better than CS, which is already quite good for balance for the most part.

In b4 "We already know and complain that Arakune's 10k comboes are BS, Rachel is tripe etc etc...."

[sanshiki]

I used Bang competitively in CT now I'm using CS Rachel. I find that CS is alot more balanced than before. It doesn't help that I'm a masochist so its a complete biased opinion.

[Shine]

Wow, I didn't expect Arakune to be top of A/bottom of S at all, just like everyone else. 100% curse combos out the ass with 1 hit kill combos off near invisible mixup, no way he could be a good character.

If you take the tier list literally, Arakune is mid-high to high tier. I find this pretty funny as nobody was arguing that Ara wasn't a good character(well, the people who actually play the game), so god only knows what your trying to prove with this.

:cool::cool::cool::cool:

[Skye]

I'd still like to know why he has that position.

Obviously, quite a bit of his match up information changed to have him where he is on that list.

So............What?

[dehumanizer]

I also wanna kno too Skye. I mean, ara has much less options than haku and both can deal situational 1 kill combos, yet he is somehow higher >.> . I thought ara would still have a huge problem cursing the opponent as I havn't seen any new 100% curse aside from air grabs, ch 6b, and j6d > 3C> super>... The last two of which I've almost never even seen in almost all the ara vids.

[Manta]

It's due to the leading hit, Hakumen's mass death combos have to come from a big counter hit or fatal counter, Arakune's can start from something much more trivial.

[kousaka]

You've never seen counter assault > beam super > 5d > hjC > j2a dive cancel 5d > jA > jC > jD ?

3c is fairly situational so it's very rare

2c FC you see all the time but more often then not the opponent will burst or they already had some meter

[ShinsoBEAM]

If you take the tier list literally, Arakune is mid-high to high tier. I find this pretty funny as nobody was arguing that Ara wasn't a good character(well, the people who actually play the game), so god only knows what your trying to prove with this.

:cool::cool::cool::cool:

Mostly people seemed to be ignoring him, except for a few people looking at that jap player going look look at what arakune can do. All arakune needs is some proration changes, in rave mode and he will be golden.

[mAc Chaos]

You live in MX. Is there an arcade/comp in MX?

I digress though. I personally completely agree that CS' top tier is better. Just pointing out that trend.

What. I can understand maybe being JUST AS good but BETTER?

Hm, well, I can't think of any weaknesses Bang would have. Maybe you're right. It's hard to swallow though.

[farranpoison]

What. I can understand maybe being JUST AS good but BETTER?

Hm, well, I can't think of any weaknesses Bang would have. Maybe you're right. It's hard to swallow though.

I think he meant that they are better to deal with.

I know I'd fight CS Bang over CT Nu any day.

[ATGMantenbo]

nah for me I think Bang and Litchi are a lot easier to handle than CT's top three.

I played the best players who main the top three in CT and ohh god, playing with them was frustrating. One curse from arakune is enough to end the round; getting zoned to death by Nu is disgusting...etc

Bang and Litchi are ridiculous but a lot less than the previous tops.

Yeah, some CT top three users keep telling me that litchi is as broke as Nu or something... I disagree heavily here because zoning + high dmg =/= spacing + high dmg or at least isn't as frustrating .... in fact if you add up the matchups without hazama and tsubaki, litchi will end up in ct's arakune place and bang would equal Nu's matchups, but still Nu and Arakune are worse to deal with than Bang and Litchi IMO.

I'd rather fight CS Bang with my sub than fighting CT Nu with my main

Note: I'm not biased in any way here; if you disagree, tell me why and lets have a nice discussion.

[Skye]

Mostly people seemed to be ignoring him, except for a few people looking at that jap player going look look at what arakune can do. All arakune needs is some proration changes, in rave mode and he will be golden.

Define "golden".

Also, ATG, I would argue that Litchi is a different kind of broken.

Maybe it's the superiority in zoning that made the CT cast so frustrating, but Litchi generally has all of what the CT top characters had.

She has zoning, great mix ups and guard pressure, long range (and ability to combo from any range given), high damage, OTG lock downs, mobility, and an unbeatable corner game.

What she has that the top 3 didn't is a meterless DP reversal, while nerfed, she still flesh out 2k out of a Tsubame.

But that's just what I've seen in videos. I haven't touched CS so I can't say from my own experience, but she definitely looks CT broken.

[Gil]

I've noticed a trend

Everyone who uses the current top tier thinks the new top tier are less frustrating to deal with, and everyone who used the past top tier disagree

COINCIDENCE?!

DUN, DUN, DUN~

You have a point there, but I do agree that Bang is easier to deal with than Nu.

Not sure if I want to say Litchi over Rachel, since both have an amazing corner oki game.

[ZONG_one]

I also wanna kno too Skye. I mean, ara has much less options than haku and both can deal situational 1 kill combos, yet he is somehow higher >.> . I thought ara would still have a huge problem cursing the opponent as I havn't seen any new 100% curse aside from air grabs, ch 6b, and j6d > 3C> super>... The last two of which I've almost never even seen in almost all the ara vids.

Air throw.

5A > 6B in corner.

Pretty sure off of Spider Super.

FCH 5C I believe.

FCH 2C.

Probably more.

Oh. Gold burst.

[ATGMantenbo]

Define "golden".

Also, ATG, I would argue that Litchi is a different kind of broken.

Maybe it's the superiority in zoning that made the CT cast so frustrating, but Litchi generally has all of what the CT top characters had.

She has zoning, great mix ups and guard pressure, long range (and ability to combo from any range given), high damage, OTG lock downs, mobility, and an unbeatable corner game.

What she has that the top 3 didn't is a meterless DP reversal, while nerfed, she still flesh out 2k out of a Tsubame.

But that's just what I've seen in videos. I haven't touched CS so I can't say from my own experience, but she definitely looks CT broken.

I wouldn't say she has zoning but rather spacing which is less frustrated to deal with than zoning or real zoning like Nu.

Tsubame gives you 2k on CH only, and take into account the risks of dp'ing coz litchi cant RC her dp.

CT broken... nah IMO she's at least no where close to Nu's brokenness

I agree with everything else you said

DUN, DUN, DUN~

You have a point there, but I do agree that Bang is easier to deal with than Nu.

Not sure if I want to say Litchi over Rachel, since both have an amazing corner oki game.

Both ct rachel and cs litchi have amazing corner game but litchi lacks the zoning power that ct rachel had

[dehumanizer]

Air throw.

5A > 6B in corner.

Pretty sure off of Spider Super.

FCH 5C I believe.

FCH 2C.

Probably more.

Oh. Gold burst.

Yea, dive loop was dang helpful in the last 3, my bad.

You've never seen counter assault > beam super > 5d > hjC > j2a dive cancel 5d > jA > jC > jD ?

3c is fairly situational so it's very rare

2c FC you see all the time but more often then not the opponent will burst or they already had some meter

Quite honestly, i forgot the dive cancel ones. My bad, I remember ppl bursting out of that crap so much now. I must've forgotten because of my own failures in trying to replicate that dive cancel .

[ZONG_one]

Dive cancel isn't that hard.

Also, it's the best thing about Arakune's game, pre curse.

If you play Ara, it's a must that you learn this. I don't even play him (that much) and I can do it.

Only problem is I think dive cancel 5D j.A j.C* is techable for some characters. I can't hit with the j.C sometimes. -_-

(But that's a question for the Ara thread. Either PM me or answer it in there, as to not clog up this thread with non match up/ character placement talk.)

[Shine]

Air throw.

5A > 6B in corner.

Pretty sure off of Spider Super.

FCH 5C I believe.

FCH 2C.

Probably more.

Oh. Gold burst.

You mean j.c?

[ZONG_one]

In place of what?

I think j.C could be added.

[SimpleKiss]

Rather than focusing on who's broken and who's not in CS, I do feel that balance was done mostly correct save for the top and bottom tiers.

So why is CS better balance wise, if the top are just as dominating as they were in CT?

I feel that a lot of characters are on the right path in terms of design. Look at CS Hakumen. He's a good character. There's nothing terribly broken about him in CS. Look at his matchups. He goes even or has slight advantage with everyone, has slightly bad matchups with two of the three tops, and hardly dominates anyone.

I feel that what they've done to Hakumen in CS was perfect and he wasn't overbuffed to absolute brokenness. There are a lot of characters that I feel are on the right path of development. I'll be the first to admit that I'm severely biased. But the game feels so much more complete than CT did.

Maybe it's because Hakumen doesn't have bad things happen to him anymore.

Maybe it's because I like the fact that I can hit Arakune in his slime now.

[Spirit Juice]

Remember after #Reload coming out how everyone was saying how much better it was and how XX was a piece of shite in comparison. Then the moment Slash was played people instantly turned on #Reload saying how Eddie's lockdown was stupid, Slayer's stun ability was BS etc etc...

Let's hope this continues actually, because it'll mean the next BB will be a lot better than CS, which is already quite good for balance for the most part.

In b4 "We already know and complain that Arakune's 10k comboes are BS, Rachel is tripe etc etc...."

Not really a fair comparison. #R felt a lot better than XX, although about only half the cast could compete. Eddie had ridiculous damage, stupid lockdown that lead into ezmode high/low set ups that often lead to an unblockable, and could run away/turtle very well. If Eddie got you in a block string, he could still do 50% damage from four god damn hits toward the end because your guard guage was already flashing. Slayer's damage and stun ability were huge, and BDC was still very strong. Millia was pretty much Magneto with tits. Dizzy was a lock down monster with very good damage potential. Robo-Ky had a fuck ton of damage options and gained meter faster than any character. Jam's damage was huge and could pretty much do 50% life with only 25% meter starting off a throw.

Most of the cast had a hard time competing with those characters; #R wasn't a very balanced game at all. It was pretty broken, but it was still fun.

[Sophisticat]

I feel that what they've done to Hakumen in CS was perfect and he wasn't overbuffed to absolute brokenness.

Yeah! Now he just needs his old 6a back and he'll be perfect!

Kojing aside... Console release will probably have it right for every character. I doubt they'll introduces radical changes, so it'll at least be better balanced than it is currently.

Anyway, all this discussion feels pointless because of said console rebalance. Let's keep match-ups and such for when it's released over here.

[SimpleKiss]

Yeah! Now he just needs his old 6a back and he'll be perfect!

Kojing aside... Console release will probably have it right for every character. I doubt they'll introduces radical changes, so it'll at least be better balanced than it is currently.

Anyway, all this discussion feels pointless because of said console rebalance. Let's keep match-ups and such for when it's released over here.

His new 6A, while losing anti-air properties, is pretty good for pressure. it's not amazing - but the fact that he does have a move that can give lead him into a favorable mixup opportunity for being offensive, is pretty good. If H-Man had a reliable, go-to anti-air everything like he did in CT, I think that'd be tipping the scales too far. He'd literally be almost impossible to approach.

[Manta]

Not really a fair comparison. #R felt a lot better than XX, although about only half the cast could compete. Eddie had ridiculous damage, stupid lockdown that lead into ezmode high/low set ups that often lead to an unblockable, and could run away/turtle very well. If Eddie got you in a block string, he could still do 50% damage from four god damn hits toward the end because your guard guage was already flashing. Slayer's damage and stun ability were huge, and BDC was still very strong. Millia was pretty much Magneto with tits. Dizzy was a lock down monster with very good damage potential. Robo-Ky had a fuck ton of damage options and gained meter faster than any character. Jam's damage was huge and could pretty much do 50% life with only 25% meter starting off a throw.

Most of the cast had a hard time competing with those characters; #R wasn't a very balanced game at all. It was pretty broken, but it was still fun.

Pretty much exactly my point, CS will feel more broken once the next one comes out. Every Rachel player will weep tears of joy and lament how bad she was in the past. Tager players... will probably just accept that he's always going to be the underdog.