BB:CS Match-Up Chart

[Lord Knight]

Litchi matchups:

Vs Bang: 5-5

Vs Ragna: 5-5

Vs Hakumen: 5-5

Vs Carl: 6-4

Vs Hazama: 5.5-4.5

Vs Tao: 5.5-4.5

Vs Lambda: 6-4

Vs Arakune: 6-4

Vs Tsubaki: 6-4

Vs Jin: 5.5-4.5

Vs Noel: 6-4

Vs Tager: 6.5-3.5

Vs Rachel: 6.5-3.5

[smooshman]

wow bang has a 65 to 35 vs jin o.O how come what makes it this hard to win

basically, Jin is a mario (average in everything) and Bang is a lightning bruiser (above average in everything) so he is essentially Jin, only better, atleast from a stat stand point.

the most recent news I heard for Jin was that his worst matchup is 7-3 vs Litchi, because she focuses on mid-far range, and Jin focuses at close-far, and Litchi's far better at pressure and zoning/lockdown, and since this takes place at mostly mid range, where Jin is practically helpless.....so......yeah....

[seyu]

i haven't had problems with tsubaki. are you sure you're reading it right?

yes. i mean its 6-4 right? theres gotta be something tsubaki can do agains haku. to be honest the matchup against him seems extra shitty, so it would be nice if there was somehing youd be afrait of as hakumen

[qwerty]

yes. i mean its 6-4 right? theres gotta be something tsubaki can do agains haku. to be honest the matchup against him seems extra shitty, so it would be nice if there was somehing youd be afrait of as hakumen

the entire matchup is a matter of respect, really.

you have to make hakumen afraid to jump, which is really hard; you are going to have to actively prevent him from jumping by predicting when he will and trying to stuff him before he's off the ground.

seeing as jumps are so fucking fast in this game + the fact that ib puts you at +5, you're going to have a hard time keeping him on the ground. that, and he can counter-predict your jump stuff attempts with a myriad of things (2D, tk hotaru, 3C, etc.).

but, once you do, you'll be able to gain momentum and hopefully maintain it after a knockdown.

failing that, beat him at his own game and run to the other side of the screen and charge. sometimes, you may be able to get him to play the aggressor and self-destruct.

[Lord Knight]

basically, Jin is a mario (average in everything) and Bang is a lightning bruiser (above average in everything) so he is essentially Jin, only better, atleast from a stat stand point.

The most recent news I heard for Jin was that his worst matchup is 7-3 vs Litchi, because she focuses on mid-far range, and Jin focuses at close-far, and Litchi's far better at pressure and zoning/lockdown, and since this takes place at mostly mid range, where Jin is practically helpless.....so......yeah....

Litchi vs Jin isn't even close to that bad

[lxMetalSonicxl]

Can't Jin easily advance to close range against Litchi, making her mid-far range game halfway obsolete?

[Skye]

LK, I'd like to hear your explanation on Ara vs Litchi.

[Dacidbro]

To answer Bomb, I'm not so sure Bang V Jin is 65-35 anymore. 6-4 seems closer to accurate personally. Intelligent use of his DPs and smart pressure can make the match decent, as Jin can theoretically outrange Bang when grounded and Bang's defense is generally pretty bad (Although reversal daifunka works quite well V Jin.. so..).

Overall biggest problems here are Bang functions much better without meter, making the start of the match hard, nails make Jin's life hell, Jin's C DP is literally too slow to get out of most of Bang's pressure, daifunka will beat out all of Jin's normally quite effective horizontal spacing pressure games, and 5A/5B are much better pokes than Jin's. Not sure if that lands it at 6-4 or 65-35.

[smooshman]

Can't Jin easily advance to close range against Litchi, making her mid-far range game halfway obsolete?

how would you go about this:psyduck:

[Lord Knight]

Litchi controls space too well. Since Litchi staff launch kills bell bug, Arakune only has cloud and ground bugs (jD?) outside of combos to build fever meter. Even when caught blocking when launching staff, she can just do it anyway again before it returns to her, getting her to a decent space (midscreenish) easily. Litchi does huge damage off of random hits. Her 5A/2A anti-air is weak in this match, but Tsbuame is actually usable for anti-air. This means Arakune has to put a bit of effort into approaching (lol) or just turtle with clouds.

If Jin can get Litchi to block in neutral, he's fine (like tagging her with j.C or something). His rushdown is solid enough that he can stay on her. Litchi has 5A anti-air on his jB (2A as well, but thats harder), staff launch anti-air. Jin's 2D > Litchi's 6B[m] but she shouldn't be fishing that hard with it anyways. Jin's main problem in this match (like everyone else) is getting hit. His DP is reliable but if its read it's terrible for him. Neutral more or less even in between the two, each have answers to each other's options. It's just Litchi getting so much more off a CH (or even random staff hit) than he does.

[smooshman]

If Jin can get Litchi to block in neutral, he's fine (like tagging her with j.C or something). His rushdown is solid enough that he can stay on her. Litchi has 5A anti-air on his jB (2A as well, but thats harder), staff launch anti-air. Jin's 2D > Litchi's 6B[m] but she shouldn't be fishing that hard with it anyways. Jin's main problem in this match (like everyone else) is getting hit. His DP is reliable but if its read it's terrible for him. Neutral more or less even in between the two, each have answers to each other's options. It's just Litchi getting so much more off a CH (or even random staff hit) than he does.

Jin's DP is risky though, 623C is good for getting out of pressure (meterless), but it has a massive 56 frames of recovery, and is -40 on block, so if he doesn't make contact... he's screwed, his 623D is better though and can lead to serious damage in the corner, though if the opponent is pressuring you and they're in the corner, something wierd has happened. In general Jin has some pretty bad recovery. If Jin can get in he's in the clear, but at farther ranges he has trouble, his air ice swords are better for long range pressure and getting in now since they have less recovery, but the staff can make it hard to get in, and Litchi's pressure is straight up better. The issue becomes who gains the momentum first, and Litchi gains momentum better.

[SimpleKiss]

Jin's DP is risky though, 623C is good for getting out of pressure (meterless), but it has a massive 56 frames of recovery, and is -40 on block, so if he doesn't make contact... he's screwed, his 623D is better though and can lead to serious damage in the corner, though if the opponent is pressuring you and they're in the corner, something wierd has happened. In general Jin has some pretty bad recovery. If Jin can get in he's in the clear, but at farther ranges he has trouble, his air ice swords are better for long range pressure and getting in now since they have less recovery, but the staff can make it hard to get in, and Litchi's pressure is straight up better. The issue becomes who gains the momentum first, and Litchi gains momentum better.

It's still a "get the fuck off me" button. and when used properly will do so. Obviously it's a risk, but it does what it needs to.

[smooshman]

It's still a "get the fuck off me" button. and when used properly will do so. Obviously it's a risk, but it does what it needs to.

true.... but it still kinda sucks that it has no return damage at 50 p1...... not asking for an incredible DP, just something that has some return and isn't ridiculously unsafe, yes it should be unsafe, but -40 is worse than most attacks in the game, even astrals

[freelander]

yea and ragna's blocked DP makes him fly for an hour

wtf are you asking for, for an unpunishable DP?

[smooshman]

yea and ragna's blocked DP makes him fly for an hour

wtf are you asking for, for an unpunishable DP?

I didn't say that. I said not -40, it's not like I said +60 on block or some shit. hell even -30 would be okay.

[Lord Knight]

Jin's DP is risky though, 623C is good for getting out of pressure (meterless), but it has a massive 56 frames of recovery, and is -40 on block, so if he doesn't make contact... he's screwed, his 623D is better though and can lead to serious damage in the corner, though if the opponent is pressuring you and they're in the corner, something wierd has happened. In general Jin has some pretty bad recovery. If Jin can get in he's in the clear, but at farther ranges he has trouble, his air ice swords are better for long range pressure and getting in now since they have less recovery, but the staff can make it hard to get in, and Litchi's pressure is straight up better. The issue becomes who gains the momentum first, and Litchi gains momentum better.

Didn't really say anything new here

[STenSatsu]

I didn't say that. I said not -40, it's not like I said +60 on block or some shit. hell even -30 would be okay.

Is there something out there that you get hit with at -40 that you wouldn't at -30? Wait for RC tension if you are that worried.

[smooshman]

Is there something out there that you get hit with at -40 that you wouldn't at -30? Wait for RC tension if you are that worried.

10 less frames for the opponent to do something.... actually looking at the frame data, it's only 1 frame more unsafe than inferno divider...... which has better damage return.

[Lord Knight]

Pretty sure even at -30 you could do whatever you wanted to punish it anyways.

[-Ladon-]

10 less frames for the opponent to do something.... actually looking at the frame data, it's only 1 frame more unsafe than inferno divider...... which has better damage return.

if you're looking at buffing his dp you should be looking at other options, like lowering the counter window or have him not be punishable crouching.

all dps should be the most punishable moves in the game though, if you don't have 50 heat and you're using it you deserve a 7k+ damage fatal combo for doing it predictably

[smooshman]

if you're looking at buffing his dp you should be looking at other options, like lowering the counter window or have him not be punishable crouching.

all astrals should be the most punishable moves in the game though, if you don't have 50 heat and you're using it you deserve a 7k+ damage fatal combo for doing it predictably

fixed. Astrals aren't even as punishable black onslaught is a -15 for example.

also, does that mean I shouldn't even try to escape pressure without heat?

[Alzarath]

... duh?

god forbid you have to block on wakeup... THE HORROR

[smooshman]

... duh?

god forbid you have to block on wakeup... THE HORROR

that's not escaping pressure..........

[Lord Knight]

The point is that reversals are gonna be risky unless you dumb meter to make it safe. Of course it'd be unsafe to use, that's why it's a risk. Litchi can't even RC her dp.

[MiraclePizza]

Safe DPs? Arcana Heart is that way ----------------------------------->