BB:CS Match-Up Chart

[Alzarath]

Being slightly less unsafe won't make a difference.

FYI Rehhyou had 50p1 back in CT too.

Honestly, getting out of pressure + gaining some respect isn't reward enough for you? lol.

[smooshman]

^thing is, you don't really get out of pressure, the enemy can tech at about the same time you recover, so the situation becomes more neutral and you don't gain any distance.

because your point doesn't make sense.

even if it was -20 on block then it would still be punished the same way.

get it!? as long as it above -15 everyone can kill you for it.

also stensatsu is right, and you wanting more reward for a DP is pretty silly when A,B, and D DP puts out good damage on CH in corner.

look at it like this: litchi's DP doesn't give out a big reward either.

again your point is dumb.

I never said big damage, people. I said some

and -15 is 25 less for the enemy to react and kill you, and 25 less frames from a moves start up. It's not much but it the same as saying, "well we might as well make it a -120 on block, not like it matters, same moves punish" it't the concept

and yes Litchi doesn't get damage off her DP...... but you know what? she can get 3-4K meterless off of any other attack. Yes 623B/D can get damage IN CORNER, but the situation where you're being pressured in the by someone who's in the corner is rare. Besides, you're not always in the corner.

I feel I've been misunderstood, what I say are suggestions, they don't all have to happen. lower p1 would be nice, so would less unsafe, so would longer untechable time, but all those would be stupid, even 2 would be ridiculous even, even 1 of those used to a small degree would be adaquete.

[qwerty]

you do realize reversals are absolute garbage in this game right

[ZONG_one]

That's not 100% true.

[CakeWasBannedd]

Carl's dragon punch is the best in the game, discussion over.

[smooshman]

Carl's dragon punch is the best in the game, discussion over.

I'm okay with this.

[A.X.I.S.]

^thing is, you don't really get out of pressure, the enemy can tech at about the same time you recover, so the situation becomes more neutral and you don't gain any distance.

I never said big damage, people. I said some

and -15 is 25 less for the enemy to react and kill you, and 25 less frames from a moves start up. It's not much but it the same as saying, "well we might as well make it a -120 on block, not like it matters, same moves punish" it't the concept

and yes Litchi doesn't get damage off her DP...... but you know what? she can get 3-4K meterless off of any other attack. Yes 623B/D can get damage IN CORNER, but the situation where you're being pressured in the by someone who's in the corner is rare. Besides, you're not always in the corner.

I feel I've been misunderstood, what I say are suggestions, they don't all have to happen. lower p1 would be nice, so would less unsafe, so would longer untechable time, but all those would be stupid, even 2 would be ridiculous even, even 1 of those used to a small degree would be adaquete.

rule of DP: respect it or bait it.

simple as that.

also rule of double DP: do it! shit is cash.

edit: if I had a bucket of chicken for everytime smooshman posts something dumb/whinny etc I would be one fatass greasy ass nigro.

[OmniSScythe]

rule of DP: respect it or bait it.

simple as that.

also rule of double DP: do it! shit is cash.

rule of triple DP: surely he wouldn't expect it again.

[smooshman]

edit: if I had a bucket of chicken for everytime smooshman posts something dumb/whinny etc I would be one fatass greasy ass nigro.

whining allows me to argue, which entertains me:v:

[qwerty]

That's not 100% true.

exceptions only prove the rule to be more true

[Dacidbro]

I really like the route Blaz took with DPs. They're far from godhand moves, so it's okay when people don't have them.

Smoosh, your argument is so dumb. There's only 3 levels of unsafe; They can hit me with absolutely anything, they can hit me with a full combo, and they can put me in block. Jin's C DP happens to hit the first category, but it almost never matters, because in most circumstances that looks very similar to option number 2. Obviously it can't be taken down to "put in block", so you're recommending option 2. Why does it matter? The obvious intent was you can't just mash C DP and pray, so I guess you had better just think of better ways to use it. I'll give you a hint, IB 623C in their pressure strings, but only at times where they are horizontally committed.

[smooshman]

I really like the route Blaz took with DPs. They're far from godhand moves, so it's okay when people don't have them.

Smoosh, your argument is so dumb. There's only 3 levels of unsafe; They can hit me with absolutely anything, they can hit me with a full combo, and they can put me in block. Jin's C DP happens to hit the first category, but it almost never matters, because in most circumstances that looks very similar to option number 2. Obviously it can't be taken down to "put in block", so you're recommending option 2. Why does it matter? The obvious intent was you can't just mash C DP and pray, so I guess you had better just think of better ways to use it. I'll give you a hint, IB 623C in their pressure strings, but only at times where they are horizontally committed.

unfortunenately for you I decided to remove the rail spike that I had previously jammed in my head to numb the rage, so I already know that. I'm now tired of arguing about nothing.

[Dacidbro]

.. oh

[Justice7541]

It's okay, he'll come back with more stupid nonsense later. I remember him beating this BAW UNSAFE DP shit way back when, ever since it was revealed that Jin wasn't OMG HUEG DAMAGE AND SAFE PRESSURE FROM EVERYTHING anymore in CS.

In all seriousness, if you're going to bitch about your formerly top tier character not being top tier anymore, then learn a different top tier. It's not like Bang takes any effort whatever to learn now, he's like Nu and Jin and Arakune all rolled into one scrub package.

[qwerty]

unfortunenately for you I decided to remove the rail spike that I had previously jammed in my head to numb the rage, so I already know that. I'm now tired of arguing about nothing.

backpedal.gif

[ZONG_one]

backpedal.gif

First one of yours that's made me chuckle in days. Good to see you've gotten out of your funk.

[smooshman]

It's okay, he'll come back with more stupid nonsense later. I remember him beating this BAW UNSAFE DP shit way back when, ever since it was revealed that Jin wasn't OMG HUEG DAMAGE AND SAFE PRESSURE FROM EVERYTHING anymore in CS.

In all seriousness, if you're going to bitch about your formerly top tier character not being top tier anymore, then learn a different top tier. It's not like Bang takes any effort whatever to learn now, he's like Nu and Jin and Arakune all rolled into one scrub package.

I know right? it's like I don't understand balance, I mean god forbid a character has a weakness, then things would be balanced. You're right I should play Bang, I mean I'm such a tier whore, that's why I played Jin before ever seeing the tier list. But don't worry, it's not like bitching is form of venting that leads to a clearer mind later and keeps people from ragequitting the game and not buying another one. But haters gonna hate, but don't worry, because I don't hate haters.

[Ronove]

Cut the crap already.

This thread is about match-ups, not about "my favorite character should have [insert list of changes]".

Getting back IT, I'd like to hear a Bang's opinion (Dacid?) on Bang vs Tao matchup. I'd dare to say that it looks almost "even". Bang has more safe options on oki and overall pressure, while Tao has to sacrifice damage if she wants to get oki out of her taunt loops, and no taunt loop combos don't give oki at all (basically all situational anti-air -> combo that doesn't involve the loop). 5.5:4.5 in Bang's favor? or...? Opinions please!

[kid viper]

it's pretty even but may lean a little towards tao

Reason: crawl > 5a, tao 2a > bang 2a, more mobile, hard for bang to get her to stop running around. basically tao can just hit and run the whole time and if bang runs out of nails then good luck trying to approach her. also taunt loop for big damage/big meter so incase tao needs to get out of a tight situation she can counter assault.

[huey253]

i agree i think its personally think the match up might be bang's worse *at even yayaya*

2A and 3C flat out low profile bang's 5A and 5B, and tao is more mobile than bang....

on the other side, its bang.

[Justice7541]

Well, Tao was one of his worst matchups in CT, so it's not really surprising that she would be one of his worst in CS as well. At least then I won't be able to say that Bang's worst matchup is a mirror match, like I did with CT Jin.

[Dacidbro]

I can't see it worse than even or slightly bang's advantage, TBH

Tao's biggest clinchers are better mobility, higher damage from aerials (Though it is extremely reliant on grab whereas Bang can hit confirm an air poke to pressure or combo with meter at any height), better low profile, extremely high damage off certain hits.

Bang's biggest clinchers are nails (Dnails are dominance in a projectile), able to keep up with Tao's incredible mobility, better pokes, much better mixup.

Tao's biggest failures are tragic defense (Remedied by saving meter for CA), 4 guard primers or 2 post burst, extremely low health bar (All 3 of which Bang is able to capitalize on very strongly), and an offense that is very badly suited to dealing with Bang's defensive failures

Bang's biggest failures are his fastest pokes can be low profiled with yomi, he doesn't have any even half reliable way to anti air Tao assuming good spacing, and Bang isn't used to dieing in 2-3 combos.

My experience and watching japan tells me it's even or slightly Bang's advantage. The new Tao combos ending with oki is a big improvement though. That is what brings me to think even. But this is assuming perfect execution, which is much harder for Tao to reach.

[Ronove]

New Tao combos that grant oki do sacrifice a good portion of damage, and only occur on taunt loop setups. Hence in terms of keeping momentum and pressure I'd say that Bang is definetely better on that aspect.

And I honestly don't know how much Tao could rely on her crawl, really. It's not like Bang is fucked if he can't 5A mindlessly, besides there's the D nails/2A/command grab that should be preventing Tao from even thinking of crawling in front of him anyway. There's actually a lot of yomi on both sides (which is something I really like). I don't know, my experience is still pretty poor so I can't really give any solid opinion yet but it does look to me that Bang still has more options and has better chances of winning the round if he's able to score a knockdown when Tao still has no meter. Atleast in the first part of the match I'd say Bang is slightly favoured.

[Dacidbro]

It's less crawl and more attacks like 2B and 3C, getting a hit box in front of her and going underneath things like 5A. It's hard for Bang to start multiple blockstrings with 2A, since the hit stun is poor and it starts up much slower than 5A, and has less options; so, if you can make him nervous about going underneath, you may remove one of his best moves.

[Ronove]

I thought 2B's hitbox (defensive one) was slightly bigger than her crawl? Gotta check it out again. In CT I am pretty sure that Tao's 2B shouldn't be able to low profile. 3C does though, but it's a gamble that heavily depends on the opponent's yomi and how both offense and defense have been previously set up... like it's something that could work once to make the Bang afraid of it (but heh, being afraid of her 3C... in my opinion the only character who has a right in being fucking afraid of it should be Ragna, not Bang...).