ChrisX Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 It just crossed me this, but this theory might be a little TOO crazy. We know Relius captured Arakune, and suspects it's to put a leverage to Litchi... and he hasn't said anything about it. But... there's ONE good thing that came with it: Usually, Litchi (or Tao) was the one to keep him busy from not eating. As of now, Litchi and Taokaka are away from Kagutsuchi, and even if there is Torakaka, he probably thinks it's not enough. So, his purpose to capture Arakune was for these two: 1. They can take care of Arakune and the cure in mobile, since they're going to Ikaruga, they can't afford to move back and forth to Kagutsuchi. 2. He's trying to make NOL look good. By snatching away a predator, he prevented Arakune from having an unrestrained eating spree. If he consumed the whole Kagutsuchi, when NOL is done with their business in Ikaruga, there's nobody in their main base of Kagutsuchi... and they REALLY can't rule a world without people to be ruled at! I think as much as Relius is a horrible SOB, he's does know how to keep NOL's image, or doing something good for the people... Maybe? I must be mad.
InfinityClimax Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 It just crossed me this, but this theory might be a little TOO crazy. We know Relius captured Arakune, and suspects it's to put a leverage to Litchi... and he hasn't said anything about it. But... there's ONE good thing that came with it: Usually, Litchi (or Tao) was the one to keep him busy from not eating. As of now, Litchi and Taokaka are away from Kagutsuchi, and even if there is Torakaka, he probably thinks it's not enough. So, his purpose to capture Arakune was for these two: 1. They can take care of Arakune and the cure in mobile, since they're going to Ikaruga, they can't afford to move back and forth to Kagutsuchi. 2. He's trying to make NOL look good. By snatching away a predator, he prevented Arakune from having an unrestrained eating spree. If he consumed the whole Kagutsuchi, when NOL is done with their business in Ikaruga, there's nobody in their main base of Kagutsuchi... and they REALLY can't rule a world without people to be ruled at! I think as much as Relius is a horrible SOB, he's does know how to keep NOL's image, or doing something good for the people... Maybe? I must be mad. Or he could just want to perform sick twisted experiments on Arakune, its kind of what he has a reputation for, you know?
p-kun Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 Unless he just felt like taking the name. Or it's also the name of the sword. Or someone came up with a cool name for the otherwise-nameless Hero. Someone in the story had to originally come up with the name, be it Ragna, Jubei, Rachel, some random guy, whatever. Every time he didn't already have the name, someone came up with it. I believe this is an even bigger speculation than mine. Sorry for being nitpicky. I do believe that all endings in CT are possibility, but to me, there's a huge difference between possibilities and facts. I guess it's just due to my law background. Rachel gives him that name. Rachel remembers all the loops. Therefore Rachel could still name him that even in the loops where there is no Bloodedge. Ah, great theory!
ChrisX Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 Or he could just want to perform sick twisted experiments on Arakune, its kind of what he has a reputation for, you know? Yes, but he's going to be prepared with an excuse if someone calls him out for it. For example, if Litchi found out about this, Relius can use those reasons to make her shut up, if she still cares of the people of Orient Town ("Look, if I leave this thing alone, he'll consume the Kaka Clan, and the people of Orient Town. You want that to happen? That is, if you care at all."). I know he's not going to use "Do our orders or he dies" until the very last moment. It's probably his final trump card, and you know trump cards are meant to be hidden until the very end. Speaking of her, I keep hearing that in the True End, she had a sad face. But... what's Litchi being sad about? 1. Because nobody cares about her? 2. Because she found out that she is in for bad things she is against? (But she'll have to endure) 3. Because she realized that she's allying herself with REALLY horrible monsters? (But she'll have to endure) 4. Because she realized that NOL might not be as 'good' as she thinks? (But she'll have to endure) Which one is the more likely case?
ChrisX Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 I'll have to object against that. Litchi pretty much saw NOL since CT as a 'neutral police force'. A bit harsh, but tolerable. As seen in her CT Story, she has no qualms of handing Ragna or Bang over to NOL (for Ragna, under the excuse that she has to protect Orient Town from a 'criminal' like him, though she probably thought of taking the Azure for herself, and Bang... because he harrassed her one too many) The only figures she feels uneasy about in NOL are Hazama and Relius (After seeing him attempt to murder Carl). But... two people don't make up the whole NOL, right? Unless she's put below their wings on joining. But overall, I don't think Litchi thinks that the whole NOL is bad, two completely horrible monsters doesn't make the whole organization.
Akiro Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 Litchi probably knows ALOT more than she lets on. I mean, what else could that whole "Information flowing in from the boundary" thing she said in Carl's arcade mode mean?
Prototype909 Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 Relius doesn't really seem the type to give a fuck about what anyone thinks of him. He's just a madman obsessed with his work, he's got power, and if he finds something worth his interest he isn't going to stop until he gets his hands on it. I honestly don't think he gives two fucks about public opinion or even the NOL for that matter (Just an organization which gives him an opportunity to do what he does best), much less Litchi's opinion regarding Arakune.
Circuitous Posted August 21, 2010 Author Posted August 21, 2010 I believe this is an even bigger speculation than mine. Sorry for being nitpicky. I do believe that all endings in CT are possibility, but to me, there's a huge difference between possibilities and facts. I guess it's just due to my law background. If the developers say that every ending canonically happened at some point or another (which they have, no?), then they did. Whatever batshit explanation is required to make it so is what we end up with. So far nothing is a real stretch.
ChrisX Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 Relius doesn't really seem the type to give a fuck about what anyone thinks of him. He's just a madman obsessed with his work, he's got power, and if he finds something worth his interest he isn't going to stop until he gets his hands on it. I honestly don't think he gives two fucks about public opinion or even the NOL for that matter (Just an organization which gives him an opportunity to do what he does best), much less Litchi's opinion regarding Arakune. Relius always strikes me as "Fucked up, but STILL could be loyal to the Imperator". I mean, compare him to Terumi who even BADMOUTHS the Imperator. Relius even had to reprimand him to stop acting like that for the Imperator. He probably does have loyalty to the Imperator, and probably would do all he could to serve her. Either that, or he's a very good brown-noser for the Imperator. Maybe his mind is like "Oh **** you, Imperator. Once you're on a weak spot, I'll make you my guinea pig." Or perhaps he's too scared that if he gets a bit too rough like Terumi, he gets his ass fired.
smooshman Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 Relius strikes me as a dick. a dick with that turned all the female members of his immediate family into puppets. so he either has odd fetishes or is gay. oh and his shota son wants to kill him... because he's a dick.
p-kun Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 If the developers say that every ending canonically happened at some point or another (which they have, no?), then they did. Whatever batshit explanation is required to make it so is what we end up with. So far nothing is a real stretch. That's the problem! I don't think the developer ever said that. I've asked a couple of times and no one was able to provide official source. No one can even recall when or where they ever heard of this official statement. It's nothing more than a myth at this point. Yeah, she seems to have a thing for Ragna, which makes shit kind of creepy........ I wouldnt be surprised if that relationship/concept was used as fodder for a joke ending in BB3 Practically the same for Rachel, though even more creepier. She's been stalking him for thousands of years. Plus, it's stated in Materials Collection, she did everything practically for him. She made Jin into Hakumen just so that Ragna can be reborn (she couldn't care less about Jin). She never stopped Ragna meeting Nu because she wanted him to get the complete "fake" azure while maintaining himself instead of getting transformed into Black Beast. She basically sacrificing the world for the offbeat chance that Ragna will be successful. (imagine Litchi, but much worse)
Shadow Draygon Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 The whole Ragna is Bloodedge is such poor writing. Is it ever explained how Ragna goes from being beaten and stabbed to death by Nu and then suddenly becomes more powerful than all the Six Heroes combined when he goes back in time and loses his memories?
Tokkan Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 Bloodedge = Ragna isn't the only weird thing about Phase 0. The fact that Relius Clover has somehow been alive for over a hundred years and had worked on Prime Field Number Zero was kind of weird too. Though I guess that kind of explains the reactions that Jubei, Valk and Hakumen each had when they saw Relius in CS.
InfinityClimax Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 Bloodedge = Ragna isn't the only weird thing about Phase 0. The fact that Relius Clover has somehow been alive for over a hundred years and had worked on Prime Field Number Zero was kind of weird too. Though I guess that kind of explains the reactions that Jubei, Valk and Hakumen each had when they saw Relius in CS. Given how messed up Relius is with his obsession with experiments, I wouldnt be surprised if he found a way to never age........Maybe he made himself a new body like he did hazama.
Lou_Cypher Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 I'd say it's probable that Relius performed some experiments on himself. Though I'd love to know how old Ignis was though when she met Relius. >_>
Shadow Draygon Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 If they pull a Relius is like Sasori from Naruto I'll volcano rage.
Jason D. Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 Hmm. You know, Circuitous brought up a good point about Ragna and Bloodedge a few pages back. A lot of people seem way too obsessed with how the first time loop worked, compared to all the subsequent time loops. But when it comes down to it, who says that the first 100-year timeloop period was ANYTHING like the current timeline? For instance, maybe the first time around, there were actually 9 Heroes, and the Black Beast was just a cute little Arakune running around. Some LARPers discovered how to cast real magic missiles, and the US Department of Homeland Security took over at the end like the NOL. Think about Noel's life. Noel died before she's "born" in very many of the initial time loops. But, as I recall reading, they said that with each resulting time loop, the chances of Noel's survival increased and increased. So the probability of her living kept increasing until it stabilized into the Noel we all know, who most definitely survives. So why wouldn't the rest of the world work this way? Despite what happened the first hundred times, the world kept looping and looping until it finally stabilized out into the NOL-owned, magic-based, furry-populated world that we all know. Just because this is how the world works NOW, and how the legend of the Six Heroes works now, doesn't mean it was happening like that 700 timeloops ago. And on a related note, why even worry about what happened initially. What you've seen in-game is indeed how the world is working currently, and old man Jubei's stories are indeed exactly what happened in the past (of the current Jubei). Anything else was erased (except maybe Hakumen and Terumi). So what does it matter how the previous loops went?
mAc Chaos Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 The whole Ragna is Bloodedge is such poor writing. Is it ever explained how Ragna goes from being beaten and stabbed to death by Nu and then suddenly becomes more powerful than all the Six Heroes combined when he goes back in time and loses his memories? I dont think he was stronger than the Six Heroes. Just somehow held off the Black Beast. Maybe Nu recognized him.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 I dont think he was stronger than the Six Heroes. Just somehow held off the Black Beast. Maybe Nu recognized him. Nu recognizes Ragna in ct, doesn't stop her from going into town on his ass, in every loop I might add. And ragna being stronger than the 6 heroes does make sense, since the current ragna beat mu and mu > black beast. This could be the potential jubei saw, since the bloodedge incarnation of ragna was able to hold off the black beast for so long without aid. So naturally the current ragna would be able to eventually defeat something as strong if not stronger than the black beast by himself.
mAc Chaos Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 Is Mu really stronger than the Black Beast? I'm not sure that she is... the Black Beast took all Six Heroes and the might of all of humanity to take down, whereas it seemed like Hakumen in his weakened form and Jin were able to match Mu.
Afrikaan Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 Yeah, either Mu's really not THAT strong, just more controllable (Key fact, Terumi never said Mu was STRONGER than the Black Beast, he called it useless because it was uncontrollable) or they did a VERY poor job of displaying her strength.
mAc Chaos Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 It was more the fact that she could find Amaterasu that made her special, I think.
dragontamer Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 The whole Ragna is Bloodedge is such poor writing. Is it ever explained how Ragna goes from being beaten and stabbed to death by Nu and then suddenly becomes more powerful than all the Six Heroes combined when he goes back in time and loses his memories? I'm thinking that the Nu / Ragna lifelink was against Ragna's favor. IE: every time he hit Nu, its a "stop punching yourself" moment. Hazama probably did the same with Noel/Mu when he forced the lifelink on her. It was more the fact that she could find Amaterasu that made her special, I think. I called it a year ago, but CS didn't confirm nor deny this fact. Lao Chu (the panda) is Amaterasu.
Halcyone3 Posted August 21, 2010 Posted August 21, 2010 Nu recognizes Ragna in ct, doesn't stop her from going into town on his ass, in every loop I might add. And ragna being stronger than the 6 heroes does make sense, since the current ragna beat mu and mu > black beast. This could be the potential jubei saw, since the bloodedge incarnation of ragna was able to hold off the black beast for so long without aid. So naturally the current ragna would be able to eventually defeat something as strong if not stronger than the black beast by himself. ragna dosen't really best her in a fight, he just grabs her head (getting himself shot along the way) and snaps her out of it
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