[CS1] Mu-12 vs Hakumen

[ryu-bi]

is this really Mu's worst matchup?

[MisoSowee]

Probably tied with Bang, yeah :|

[Remius]

I've been kind of what and what with Hakumen. Im no great Mu player, but it seems every other hakumen i play, i have to change a stragety. I USED to be able to just 2C CH them out of dashing at me + rush, but it depends on which attack they use. If they're ignorant to Hakumen's barrier capabilities, however, i find this matchup to be very, very easy.

For anyone decent though, this matchup is hell. I hate hakumen. IMO depends on the Haku's playstyle.

[TD]

imo second hardest for Mu. Hardest is Bang.

If you come across a Bang that knows bnb at the least, you better hope, for real. Hakumen is grace compared imo.

[Remius]

This person speaks truth. Bang just taps that shit all night with no remorse for tears.

My only stragety with this guy is to play chicken, stay out the corner, and punish him when he (and he will) jumps in at you with a slash. However, even that stops working, because when they're smart either they'll try to make you wiff or just God Hand you for a counter attack. It's all guesses and whatnot, but either way with Hakumen's damage and health vs. you and all that skin, guessing incorrectly and getting hit just doesnt work well. He also just laughs at those lasers. You better read him like a book and squeeze all the damage you can out those combos.

[whitevoid]

I think someone needs to learn some notation lol.

Mu doesn't have a 612C, 41236C or a 236C. Bad notation, but I think I understand what you mean.

Anyways, the 63214C is good for smacking Hakumen out of the air, methinks. Someone should try this after a stein if he IAD's it.

He said "his 236C". So I was assuming he was talking about Hakumen's 41236C.

[pulsr]

This match should be like evenish probably Hakumen's favor ever so slightly. I don't know what you guys are doing to let him cut your stuff, but as far as I can tell as long as you use the right D patterns you can make his life a living hell. You have to watch out for when he starts turtling though, at that point start stacking those 6Ds on his face to make him move and threaten him with explosions. Don't forget Mu has an overhead so he has to be dedicated to countering on wake up or you get a fatty CH 6B combo. This match isn't all that difficult honestly. Turtle Hakumen is pretty annoying to break, but she totally has the tools to make him stop turtling.

[FlyingVe]

Well, I've been playing Haku alot lately and outside of the usual issue of dealing with his frame traps and C pokes, I've countered one very annoying situation. The haku Cut one of my projectiles and then preceded to just sit inside the Barrier. You cant safely poke him through the barrier as 6C is a projectile. How do you get him out of there?

I've tried waiting it out, but then he's usually alot closer than I want him. Th other thing I've played with is just stacking stiens on him to detonate when the barrier goes down.

[mAc Chaos]

Does that long range C move people follow 6C up with a lot of the time count as a projectile? 63214C? That might work. Otherwise, you're probably going to have to back off or wait it out.

Ah, I see it's -10, so scratch that, unless you want to fish for a CH.

[TD]

Not much you can do, he pretty much has you.

Best not to summon too much. At least then, if the hole does appear, it will be brief.

You have to be especially careful in this match. Take your time, fish for knockdowns. PLAN YOUR NEXT MOVE or it will be your last: Haku isn't really rushdown/mixup, so you have time. Even still, l would say this matchup has to be like 6 - 4 because he just overall trumps any attempt you make to set up or rushdown. Oki seems like your only actual grace tbqh. Eh.

[Wokker]

Ive been playing this matchup alot lately hoping to find something that is good or safe against him, but found nothing usefull.

This matchup is really annoying, he owns your ass on every front, and im getting tired of losing like 15+ matches in a row against him or against Litchi.

I really hope that they nerf Litchi and Hakumen, or buff Mu-12, because most of her matchups are crap. Sometimes I just feel like dropping Mu-12 and maining Bang or Hakumen, beause Mu-12 is hard to play, and when you do your shit perfectly it isnt as rewarding as it should be. Hakumen can just hit you a few times and your tied in HP.

[TD]

YOU HEAR RACHEL PLAYERS WHINING HOMEBOY?

(...yes T.T)

But srs. 2c is gdlk. otherwise yea.. this is pretty bad after some fights with hakus.

He beats u mid range, far, close, damage and defense wise

He just can't stay on you.

Like an atomic cannon... with a long cooldown time. And big guns.

[Maho]

This matchup is indeed not easy as you can't really use your standard okizeme setups, but you have still some things for you, you can zone him pretty well and he don't have any easy way in, if you managed to get the life advantage he will have to work quite hard.

When you place orbs while zoning, only use far ones (4D 6D, j2D, j4D and j6D), the others can be used if you have space to iad backwards. Orbs can be usefull anywhere as long as that's not close to you, the idea is that if you 214D and he's doing something like iad j2C and cut one, the black hole won't get in the way of your pokes and anti airs.

Here's one orb setup you want to look for when zoning him, do 4D 6D j4D wait low j2D and so you should get someting like this :

-----------------j4D

----------------4D

-------------------------------6D

-----------------j2D

Of course you won't be able to get that in one go everytime if the Hakumen isn't sleeping (or is the type to zone all the round), but anyway once it's done, as long as he's behind the 3 orbs wall, he have no way in without risking to eat a 214D explosion.

The air is blocked and the low j2D will prevent 623A to get through by the ground, you can replace orbs or move the wall and with luck you'll get some laser hits, he have to be carefull about what trying an approach on reaction to you settings the orbs as you can cancel by 214D at anytime.

If you baited something that didn't come and the explosions are blocked or he's behind those, quickly set 2 orbs during the explosions and then work on getting your wall back.

Note that he can counter the explosions to avoid primer loss, but it won't get him in a better position afterwards, don't forget to look out for the scrubby yukikaze, which you can easily avoid, if that happens hj iad forward and run to the other side.

He can also cut the orbs if he react fast and wasn't doing anything, but the black hole will be far and won't be dangerous for you.

Of course this can be used to do some easy damage with a 6C into 214D explosion combo, if you end a combo with another 6C you can do 2D iad backwards j2C then 4D 6D to get your wall back, or you can go for okizeme.

If you end a combo with jC j2C (no dj) you can wait a little j4D j2D and you have a the best part of the wall ready for when he wake up.

If you go for the 6C okizeme, you can't use laser setups of course, so do a 6C empty 214D and dash in, and you have enough time to get anything meaty, of course he can try a counter but he have to guess like with every other character.

So even if it's not as good as laser setups but you have still quite a few options, the main ones being 2B, 6B, cross under 2B, throw and cross under 2B into throw.

I think it's better to go for this if you have at least 50% so anything can be confirmed into to at least 3.5k, and as throw combo can lead to 5.2k, this will give him a strong reason to think twice before using his drive.

One funny thing that can happen in this matchup, if he Yukikaze you DPing, RC it, at first il will do like with other moves, you will hear the announcer saying rapid and see the red effect, without it actually canceling the move.

But then Haku will go through you without hitting you, and just after it the RC will take effect and you can high jump out before getting hit by the unblockable part.

Note that this also work against Jin's Yukikaze as well.

[KojinSagara]

pulsr showed how useful 6d is against hakumen, since he obviously cant turn around and cut them, this puts more long range pressure to better use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3SehKsKfLk

[Ryujinflame]

Ok, need some help in this matchup. I played a pretty solid Hakumen at our last ranbat and kept matches close, but still lost pretty convincingly. I kept him out as often as I could, and naturally once he closed the gap things got rough. But the biggest thing I noticed on my self-critique was I didn't respect his AA normals enough - particularly his upward slash (I want to say 2C?). If I committed to an airdash without having a random stein laser snipe him, I'm pretty sure he was free to catch me with the 2C if I tried a j2C of my own.

I've already told myself not to telegraph my air dashing so much the next time we play in casuals. So my main question for this is: what are Mu's options for safe air approaches on Hakumen?

[Senovit]

Just mix it up. If you're airdashing to get in, consider mixing it up with air dashes above his range to cross up so that you can punish his AA, or get in with normal jump to jump in, double jump to jump in, etc. This'll be true for jumping in on anyone with an anti air, not just Hakumen.

[Ryujinflame]

Sorry, I guess my question is a little more specific than what I originally posted: If Mu's committed to an airdash and he sticks out his ground 2C to AA her, do I have any attack options or am I forced to block? I wanted to know if airdashing is a viable approach for Mu vs. Hakumen or if I should be avoiding it.

[FlyingVe]

In that situation you're stuck blocking. This is why you don't want to be obvious with your airdashs (with any character). In BB even bad AA's are still pretty decent. However, if you are closer to Haku, it is possible to get behind his 2C and make him wiff. Good spacing is really the key to this whole match.

Also, note that Haku's 2C isn't head Invulnerable, so you could try to beat it out with a well timed jB/jC, but if Haku is paying attention his 2C will likely still win.

[Ryujinflame]

Good to know I have a little flexibility at close range, but based on that I'll definitely keep more of an eye on the spacing and cut down on the telegraphed dashing. Thanks!

[TD]

lrn2ib people. And let him come to you.

My thoughts on haku - Mu have completely changed. The match is 5.5 haku. ONLY because he can semi-halt your zoning.

Honestly, block his shit (not hard) let him come to you (loleasy), 2c (tricky), combo, oki, repeat. There is no need to rush at him, no need to be getting hit.

Stay out of the corner though or you'll be there. Momentum is huge and lenghty on both ends.

[FlyingVe]

^Pretty much. I've also had alot of success CH fishing with 6C. Haku players feel overly safe at that range (they aren't used to being poked back) and he's big enough that he has a harder time dashing over it than others. But be careful with 6C for all the usually reasons.

[Sophisticat]

Imo, this match is one of Haku's worst, but the Mu has to be competent.

There isn't anything specific to it, just keep him zoned, then rush in with a mixup when he's pined down. Not much I can do outside of D or Hotaru in that case.

What you want to avoid is getting your setup dismantled. I've noticed Mu can be very setup-dependent, and Haku is the master at anti-offense. Keep away, take your time, and set up traps. It's not a piece of cake, but you can make life hard for Haku if you play it right.

[FlyingVe]

Well, for what it's worth, one of the reasons this is closer to 5-5 (if anything slight edge Haku), is that Haku can counter the laser (easy to do since laser timing is very predictable), and grab you. This really hurts her approach and limits many of her oki options. Basically Haku can get zoned well by the lasers, but it never truly amounts to a safe way to get in on him.

[TD]

But even with void out, haku can only just stand in it and wait. If he comes at you it's 2c or 6c. I'd go so far as to say this match is pretty flowcharty.

stein gunner - did he cut it?

NO - stein gunner

YES - Watch

Did he IAD at you?

YES - 2c

No - Watch

Did he try to outrange you?

YES - ib 6c 7k

NO - Watch

Did the void run out?

YES - stein gunner

NO - Watch

[FlyingVe]

Agreed again. That's pretty much what I was trying to say. Hakumen can screw with your approach... but you really have no good reason to approach in the first place. It's just good to be aware of his options when you aren't in a zoning situation.