TD Posted September 1, 2010 Posted September 1, 2010 on block, yes? you're not supposed to block it. pay attention. So get hit, yes? ls that what you're saying? >_> I don't understand why i'm even trying anymore, it's like preaching... to teenagers. I'm fucking done. When all of you who think this matchup is "just slightly bad" or "doable" or "just in haz's favor" find out the hard way, l want you to sit in your own mindfuck and wonder what went wrong l gave what l know. l'm not asking for advice. My part's finished.
Lord Knight Posted September 1, 2010 Posted September 1, 2010 and there are no similarities at all between the two moves also the time it takes him to get in range + startup and travel time means you can set at least one stein, or he can guess wrong and you can set multiple 214da is 19f
TD Posted September 4, 2010 Posted September 4, 2010 ^^l'm glad l didn't have to say it. He was pissing me off real talk. and yea this thread is pretty funny, hopefully a mod dont show up or we'll be in a heap of horse shit o.0 Well, OT... uhm, putting my pessimism aside, it looks like running away has proven a valid tactic, as well as stein spam. Haz can pretty easily bypass them, but what the hell. Match sucks anyway, might as well just troll then hell out of him.
Henaki Posted September 4, 2010 Posted September 4, 2010 dahlia did you play at CF at all? if so who did you use? im just trying to gauge your actual skill level versus zidane. does xaq think this is a bad match too? i dont know anything about mu haha.
FlyingVe Posted September 4, 2010 Posted September 4, 2010 The matchup sucks. Hazama does everything you do better. But thankfully Mu can fight back a little.
Big Red Tie Posted September 4, 2010 Posted September 4, 2010 also 236A is kind of nice in this matchup so also lol tempest dahlia is mad on the internet woop
TD Posted September 4, 2010 Posted September 4, 2010 dahlia did you play at CF at all? if so who did you use? im just trying to gauge your actual skill level versus zidane. does xaq think this is a bad match too? i dont know anything about mu haha. Nah l played at xaq's house (don't play stick) All of us talked sbout it. Yea we all this it's beyond bad. (although josh is beastly regardless, you can tell when it's not just skill playing a factor in the match). l couldn't even run away :*( l was picking Tsu mainly tho.
Aginor Posted September 4, 2010 Posted September 4, 2010 for chains not 214DA jesus 214D~A is 19f. No matter what level it is. Maybe you might want to look at the Hazama's frame data. For the record, the start up for Hazama's chains are either 15f or 16f.
Big Red Tie Posted September 4, 2010 Posted September 4, 2010 214D~A is 19f. No matter what level it is. Maybe you might want to look at the Hazama's frame data. i didn't say anything contrary to this. why are you repeating it? edit: and if anyone wasn't paying attention, i wasn't even talking about 214DA. so.
Big Red Tie Posted September 5, 2010 Posted September 5, 2010 also to add to my previous comment: canceling stein into 236A after knockdown gives some good setup time
AcidAce Posted September 6, 2010 Author Posted September 6, 2010 how the game goes for these two (in a nut shell) what you can do to fight this awesome troll: this fight IS in hazama favor end of story. but it is with holes and ways to make hazama life a living hell. its just the fact is you have to work VERY hard to keep it that way. this living hell im talking about is have TWO steins place far away (note 5D 6D) at all times ready to go. hazama is bad at moving without his chains. with this in mind its very easy to get 214D without much problem you would have on other char that can run or otherwise. when this does happen dash in with a common block string that always lead up to two D set ups(Example 2b 2C 3C #D #D). now why two instead is the fact mu after her block stream is ALWAYS in danger afterward with hazama #Ds and his god like anti air moves. best i do is just block it all time i get something to work with in his defense or get a chance to run away. thats about in on defense and block streams. on offense is to get a 3c trip on him to your 2b 5c 6c d steins setups. after that KEEP IT THAT WAY and keep knocking him down back to setup. about that how you do that is up how good your offense is. what hazama can do and what to look out for in general (Coming soon when i decide to update again). also posted this up in the front.
FlyingVe Posted September 6, 2010 Posted September 6, 2010 *snip* I'm honestly not sure what you said in you entire post. But the bits that did make sense were pretty wrong. The whole problem with this match is that Hazama makes it impossible to set-up without first knocking him down, and to do that, you gotta make it through his chains. On top of that, even if you do get momentum in your favor, a Jayoku can/will take half your health and turn the tables, and when Hazama has the advantage his oki game is very dangerous. Also, Hazama is EXTREMELY good at moving around using his chains. also to add to my previous comment: canceling stein into 236A after knockdown gives some good setup time Okay, but I don't know why you would do this in favor of Mu's other oki otpions.
AcidAce Posted September 6, 2010 Author Posted September 6, 2010 hmm sry if it didnt make too much sense was pretty tired when posting this(will edit later for neatness). but here a sum up version of what im saying on defense and offense. turtle... block all his moves and look for a opening in between his attacks that you can dodge or punish(example 214D A back dash to 5c 6c on block 2 two steins ups). after that you best to try 236D for pressure and close in. when i do get in just go to a block stream that leads up to 1 stein or 2 steins. then just block your best until you get another chance to use some special moves for safely closing in and geting some damage. and thats about how this match up goes in a nut shell. hope this is a bit easily to understand. o and also your complaints about his oki and jayoku etc. im wondering if you havent noticed but doesnt EVERYONE in this game have to deal with this(weee ragna 5B= HAZAMA IB into jayoku)? his oki game is same thing. everyone has to deal with it. its just HAZAMA in general. other chars match up treads are proberly gonna say the same thing such as carl or taokaka who dont even has a reversal to help themselves with. o and i know hazama is good a moving with his chains, i just said hes not good at moving without his chains. nothing wrong there =0
FlyingVe Posted September 6, 2010 Posted September 6, 2010 Ragna's 5B does not = IB Jayoku, not now, not ever, not on the moon, not in a saloon, not on Jupiter, you should stop before you look any stupider. Hazama's Oki game in the corner is amazing because your only option is to neutral tech or reversal, and EVEN THEN you run the risk of getting mix'd up (command grab, 6A) or getting baited. You are correct though, if you manage to get momentum against Hazama (very hard to do), I believe you have the advantage. However, one Jayoku and it all goes to shit.
AcidAce Posted September 7, 2010 Author Posted September 7, 2010 ok? ummm that ragna 5b thing was a bad example, flame me woo. but where in this did i start say shit about his oki game? its good on everyone. i said people have to deal with it when ever you play against hazama regardless. same thing with wake up jayoku or IB super. im posting some advice on how i play against him that can help you or not.
Edalborez Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 So I gotta ask because netplay is a terrible teacher: I've been doing DP on reaction to blocked (idiot) chain-followups and 3C>214D~whatever. Is this a bad habit I should be breaking? Can he bait this in any way aside from (guessing, correct me if wrong) chain~B or 214D~D cancel?
Synthesis Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 Nope. If you respond in that way, those are his only options.
FlyingVe Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 If you mash 5A you should get a CH everytime. Maybe there's some kind of Anti-Chain combo to be done from there. Probably something along the lines of CH 5A>2C>...
pulsr Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 So I gotta ask because netplay is a terrible teacher: I've been doing DP on reaction to blocked (idiot) chain-followups and 3C>214D~whatever. Is this a bad habit I should be breaking? Can he bait this in any way aside from (guessing, correct me if wrong) chain~B or 214D~D cancel? Never do DP on a blocked chain-follow up. NEVER EVER. Any smart Hazama player will cut their momentum short to try and bait this kind of stuff (Yes, he can do this. It is in his trial mode). What you can do about it though is literally mash 5a and walk out the champion if he did do a follow up because he needs to be a bit closer for any of those hits to hit. Besides, the combo off of 5a or 6a is way more devastating than the 500 from her DP. Oh, I guess the biggest factor for this is you have to know how to IB..
Innolis Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Sorry to reopen this, but...how do you exactly get in in this matchup? I though that fullscreen laser barrage worked (and tbh it did) until I fought either a good or smart hazama who used the chains to navigate trough all the stein setups and punish me. I saw the terrible defficiences MU has in this matchup on that single fight...it feels like nothing works if you're anywhere thats not fullscreen, and even then, he can outmanuever whatever you throw at him. Staying at chain range kills any special D options (236d / 214d / 214a, hell even full range 5c lost to a chain) since he seemed to be able to CH with chains on reaction. So I tried to rush him down...no good either, his basic attacks where better than mine. So I thought perhaps sitting down, blocking and waiting for an opening would work...wrong again, I realized I didnt know when to punish, and sat down blocking for almost 7 seconds until he did his command grab and kick special to painfull results I consider myself at begginer level and its clear that the guy was better than me, but from my loses I can usually see room from improvement (like, I could've done this, or that...). After this match I was stupefied and simply couldnt see any way around it. Thats pretty much it, any help / suggestions would be greattly appreciated!
toanenadiz Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 I'm not a Mu but a good first step is to look at his blockstrings and figure out if you can backdash/punish something.
C0R Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 So I thought perhaps sitting down, blocking and waiting for an opening would work...wrong again, I realized I didnt know when to punish, and sat down blocking for almost 7 seconds until he did his command grab and kick special to painfull results This is how I play the matchup, baiting him in with safe stiens then punishing his blockstring, usually just keeping the IB downback until he goes in for the Serpent's Benedition overhead, which the 6A Ch combo eats alive.
TD Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 stay fullscreen, SPAM steins. anything after fullscreen, mu loses. 236/214d is ridiculously slow. 236a is very good but you'll find yourself getting hit out of the startup a lot. midrange j.c is good all around (aa, air to ground, spacing) but that's about it... =/ do not pressure this guy plz if he has meter, which he almost always does. matchup is completely ass for mu. definitely her worst.
Recommended Posts