[CS1-CSE] Tsubaki Self-Improvement and Critique Thread

[Airk]

Wouldn't it be more reasonable for you to mash against pressure you are comfortable in? If you're mashing against ragna/litchi they're probably getting a ton of CHs against you. If you're getting too comfortable sitting back against Jin you ARE without a doubt going to get overwhelmed.

Surfeit is right, you need to retaliate where you can.

It just means I get to pick my times; I -can't- basically sit and block against Ragna or Litchi for the length of time I can sit and block against Jin, so I feel like I have to take more risks (or just get hit.)

[abadlime]

Also I thought her shield charge was safe on block. I used to think I could punish but every time I tried I'd get hit.

As Airk said, unsafe unless at a good distance. It's why when you were expecting me to do it, i never did.

The position you are left in after a standalone dp is far more rewarding than following up in terms of pressure advantage even if they dont air tech. The untechable time from j.214x is very short so normally what you're forced to do is air charge for a while an then IAD backwards to avoid getting hit due to landing recovery.

What would be your next move if they were to tech "correctly"? I've been seeing this more lately and i usually defaulted to doing standalone DP but getting the pressure instantly back on me. I would think stuffing them with a 2C AA would force them to block but i really haven't tried that.

Id like to add that you may have been respecting his pressure a bit too much. He was constantly 6B'ing you to reset pressure when you should have been DPing him afterwards to teach him to respect, or calling it out and 5Aing his startup (which is risky but it works). As much as I would advise to never use DP too excessively, you really should have in those instances.

If you can recognize and see the jin's 6B tendencies, 5A does work, but i believe you have to time it or you may whiff and eat a huge combo. I'm gonna have to test this now.

[Errol]

As Airk said, unsafe unless at a good distance. It's why when you were expecting me to do it, i never did.

What would be your next move if they were to tech "correctly"? I've been seeing this more lately and i usually defaulted to doing standalone DP but getting the pressure instantly back on me. I would think stuffing them with a 2C AA would force them to block but i really haven't tried that.

If you can recognize and see the jin's 6B tendencies, 5A does work, but i believe you have to time it or you may whiff and eat a huge combo. I'm gonna have to test this now.

If you try to 2c someone that techs properly, you'll eat a 5a

[Kiba]

What would be your next move if they were to tech "correctly"? I've been seeing this more lately and i usually defaulted to doing standalone DP but getting the pressure instantly back on me. I would think stuffing them with a 2C AA would force them to block but i really haven't tried that.

The first thing I do after a 623A is dash, so if they tech 'correctly' it'll just result to normal 5A pressure. 2C can catch those players who tech closer to the ground and try to hit you immediately but that completely depends on the timing.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Kiba

[abadlime]

If you try to 2c someone that techs properly, you'll eat a 5a

Might be why i never tried it much. Would the 2C whiff on proper tech?

EDIT: I think i'll try the dash after DP. Much learning still.

Edited January 21, 2013 by abadlime

[Kiba]

Coolie.

However, there have been many times where my brother has 5B'd me (with Jin) everytime he teched correctly and I wondered why it worked when I tried to inflict pressure with 5A. It was probably because I was too slow.

[Errol]

I'm not sure about that, I'd have to test but I think if they tech that way you are at the disadvantage.

[Surf]

Their easy 2C fodder if they choose to tech forward or backwards. Specifically backwards. But if they neutral and their low to the ground, the 2C will whiff through their invul frames. Some people just choose not to tech at all and avoid the air oki. Other will airdash away or double jump and try to CH whatever option you tried on your way down. it just comes to the players tendencies imo. These are the things i personally do

Neutral

-Run under them and get away

-Try to 2C them if they were high enough when i hit them

Forward

-2C them

-Jump back throw

-Run under them

Backward

-Run up 2C

-Run up throw

-Run under them

No/late tech

-IAD over them and crossup j.B if they do a delayed neutral tech. If they chose to roll away before i did this we will switch sides and they will be right in front of me. Which i usually use 5A afterwards.

-If they chose to roll toward me we will still switch sides but the j.B will whiff.

Double jumping

-Verg rarely i do this but sometimes if they double jump i will super jump and intercept with j.A/j.BB. But i almost never do this. Its easier to just run under them if they do this anyway.

If I see them barrier blocking to avoid 2C, I usually just jump up and start applying j.A pressure until we land. But this mostly depends on the character as well.

Running can usually be the safest and best option because if you DP them while your in the corner you can run under and put them in rhe corner now, and theyll probably still be in the air for a little bit. And if they double jumped they pretty much always going to still be in the air. But yea, some character i just dont challenge with this, like Hakumen. Who will usually Hotaru my nuts off if I do. Or Jin because his j.2C is retardrd.

This post was alot longer than I intended. These are my options, they may not be the best but I use them.

[Kiba]

Would anyone be kind enough to critique my Tsubaki? Please and thank you in advance.

[Surf]

I think you should bait bursts and counter assualts more often. And maybe to counter assault yourself as well. I know your stingy with your bursts and I can understand that, but Onestar would be pressuring you and you would almost be dead with 100 meter. You didnt really have anything to lose from using a counter assault and maybe rapid cancelling it if he happened to bait it. He had a burst left and 50% health in one of the matches. Even if you still lost you could have counter assaulted him out and started applying your own pressure not in hopes of winning, but in hope of him using her burst to prevent you from possibly running it back.

Pretty much the only thing I can say. Some good matches

[Errol]

You're not using wolf form enough

[Kiba]

I think you should bait bursts and counter assualts more often. And maybe to counter assault yourself as well. I know your stingy with your bursts and I can understand that, but Onestar would be pressuring you and you would almost be dead with 100 meter. You didnt really have anything to lose from using a counter assault and maybe rapid cancelling it if he happened to bait it. He had a burst left and 50% health in one of the matches. Even if you still lost you could have counter assaulted him out and started applying your own pressure not in hopes of winning, but in hope of him using her burst to prevent you from possibly running it back.

Pretty much the only thing I can say. Some good matches

Ok thanks for the advice.

I feel I could've baited the CAs because I honestly felt they were obvious, and most of the time I was kicking myself in the stomach for failing to do so. I didn't feel comfortable enough to try to bait the burts however.

With regards to CA, I'm not afraid enough to use CAs but I completely understand how it's an easy way for me to escape pressure so I will take that on board. I truly dislike losing on 100% heat and your way is just the way to work around it. Even if I do not win, I can still force the opponent to waste their burst and have a stronger following round. Normally I would prefer to IB > DP, but there aren't always opportunites for me to do that. Thanks man.

You're not using wolf form enough

Edited March 8, 2013 by Kiba

[Surf]

I would say counter assaults are not as effective for you as they are for me, since I have the reactions of a 5 month old sloth and don't enjoy blocking for extended periods. I'm so glad jump loop is gone in CP, so I don't feel guilty for not using it anymore.

[Airk]

I'm so glad jump loop is gone in CP, so I don't feel guilty for not using it anymore.

Yeah, instead everyone ELSE has them. :P

Anyway, I agree with Surfeit, Kiba; Your defense is basically a little TOO good, so you block more than you should, if that makes sense.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Airk

[Kiba]

I would say counter assaults are not as effective for you as they are for me, since I have the reactions of a 5 month old sloth and don't enjoy blocking for extended periods.

I don't mind blocking for an extended period but that depends on the character. If it's Tsubaki, well yea, but if it's Valk, I wouldn't want to. This ties in with what Airk said about my defense being good (thanks btw). It sorta gives that impression that I like blocking for that long lol. However I see your point, as the only real benefit I'm getting is more meter, but I can't afford to be on the defense for so long.

Watching the video back again, there isn't really a reason for me to use 6C on block, so I need to cut that off, unless I mix some gimmicks in. I also need to be a little less focused on charge during my corner oki, because it's easier for my opponent to get out or try to punish me. I should time it so that I can pressure him as he neutral techs, or stop charging earlier to maintain advantage. Need to remember to barrier itsuu when I'm in the air, got caught with that shit twice.

I should probably rely more on j.B ata rather than j.C. j.C actually let me down a few times, getting EXonestar a numerous amount of CHs. Surfeit you mentioned I was stingy with my bursts and that's something I should work on. There are times I could've avoided the corner oki and damage by bursting, not to mention bursting becomes more obvious when you're lower on health. I need to really finish my combos too. With the air grab, I simply air dashed, and I dropped the mugen combo. It's not my first time doing these and I should work on trying to be consistent.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Kiba

[Airk]

Watching the video back again, there isn't really a reason for me to use 6C on block, so I need to cut that off, unless I mix some gimmicks in.

I wasn't going to mention this, but yeah; There was a lot of this, and I'm still not really sure what purpose 6C serves in a blockstring. =/

I also need to be a little less focused on charge during my corner oki, because it's easier for my opponent to get out or try to punish me. I should time it so that I can pressure him as he neutral techs, or stop charging earlier to maintain advantage.

Also a very good point - I didn't see any quick wakeups from EXonestar, but they can be a serious problem if you get in the habit of charging a lot on knockdown.

I need to really finish my combos too. With the air grab, I simply air dashed, and I dropped the mugen combo. It's not my first time doing these and I should work on trying to be consistent.

Honestly, I didn't really think this was worth mentioning - though mostly because it's pretty much an assumption that if you drop a combo ever (which everyone does) you already know you need to work on them. ;P

[Surf]

Oh sorry i didnt see your post Kiba

Well no one likes to block, just some people are better than others. And it does depend on the character whose pressuring you wither you should is respect or counter assualt out.

As for j.C and you excessive charging, j would say to stop both. The more you use j.C the more you realize how bad of a normal is. You'll be hit out of its startup more times than you can count. I just started sticking to j.A/B instead in most matchups. J.B will suprise you on how good it is sometimes.

Charging... I dont care about much anymore. Im usually only doing it in neutral when i have the time now. Or during pressure. I somewhat stopped during it on knockdown in the corner. And if i do, its not for long.

On the topic of your pressure, maybe delaying your 5As a tad bit will help punish them when their mashing. You pressure with 5A really fast and keep them in blockstun. But thats probably what you personally like doing anyway

[Velvien]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NAPUw_F1Q

Just a quick match recorded as I test, but I figure I might as well post it here anyways

[Kiba]

I'll keep it here so you can use it as a better reference.

There seems to be quite a few random uses of 3C so you need to be very careful with that. There were also times where you would both do nothing from afar but it's usually better if you stay grounded and charge rather than charging in the air and then trying to attack with dives since it's very predictable and can be stuffed with a well times AA. You're pretty good with Tsubaki's combo theory though, for example the unblockable combo you used in the corner was an interesting route and I haven't seen that used before. If you can't get the j.D > falling j.C combos down that 2 charge combo is your best bet from a corner 22D.

I wouldn't have advised you to use the DD (though what made it worse is that you used the weaker version). I would've saved the heat for something for more useful like 3CC because you wanna pressure him not be away from him, and plus it wasn't a killing combo. You essentially weakened your oki options when you used it. Just remember to use 3C much less often and remember that 6CC doesn't work from a prorated combo > 22D.

Your throw teching is also good.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Kiba

[Airk]

I'll keep it here so you can use it as a better reference.

There seems to be quite a few random uses of 3C so you need to be very careful with that. There were also times where you would both do nothing from afar but it's usually better if you stay grounded and charge rather than charging in the air and then trying to attack with dives since it's very predictable and can be stuffed with a well times AA. You're pretty good with Tsubaki's combo theory though, for example the unblockable combo you used in the corner was an interesting route and I haven't seen that used before. If you can't get the j.D > falling j.C combos down that 2 charge combo is your best bet from a corner 22D.

I wouldn't have advised you to use the DD (though what made it worse is that you used the weaker version). I would've saved the heat for something for more useful like 3CC because you wanna pressure him not be away from him, and plus it wasn't a killing combo. You essentially weakened your oki options when you used it. Just remember to use 3C much less often and remember that 6CC doesn't work from a prorated combo > 22D.

Your throw teching is also good.

I didn't really seem him do 3C too much - one of the times he did it was pretty clearly (to me) a 2C (well, a 1C) that got crossed up. I agree about the use of the DD though - that's the one thing I saw in there where I went "Yeah, that wasn't a good decision."

I liked the 22D combo too. Though I really oughta put in the time to learn the 'good' one. x.x

[Kiba]

Kiba, I do have some videos on there of Tsubaki as well (who is theoretically my main), so feel free to comment if you like!

You seem to have some hitconfirms down but you didn't capitalise off the 22A CH you got at the start of the round, by following up iwth 5C > 2CC > air combo or ground ender. You also don't seem very comfortable with her in terms of mobility and because of that you're not charging much and you're letting the opponent get to you. You also need to pay extra attention to your spacing with hitting with 5B, because you whiffed 5BB a lot of times, and against an opponent who has more experience with Tsubaki, they would've punished you for it. You're also whiffing a lot of 5CC, and you should learn to use that when you're pressuring the opponent, because you're basically making it easier for your opponent to punish you.

Try to get into the habit of using 22B for your combo enders because it has less recovery than 22A, meaning you have more time to charge or rush into your opponent if you wish. So your normal combos would be 5BB > 2BB > 5CC > 22B. There were some times where you'd use 236A during pressure, and there's also a greater tendency for you to use 236C when you're further away from your opponent. Both of which are dangerous as if the opponent blocks it, or if it whiffs, you're vulnerable. This applies to both matches against the Ragna and the Noel.

The gameplay seems to be a little all over the place at the moment but remember:

-Try to rushdown after a 22B or go for charge as it'll really strengthen your game

-Pay attention to spacing and try not to whiff 5BB or 5CC

-Avoid a reliance on 236C especially when you don't have charge to back it up.

-Try to move around a little more. You look kinda stiff.

[Kakimori]

Kiba, thanks so much!

So that's how to follow up on 22A CH~! To the lab I go.

Yeah, I'm working on not throwing out 5BB so much (stopping at 5B).

Those 236A during pressure were just pure reflex/accident. I slap myself whenever I do it. Sometimes, however, I'll land 5BB > 2BB > 5CC and try to go into 236A > etc. but the 236A won't connect in time. Should I only use this path if I start the combo close to them, and just end with 22B instead?

I did use one fullscreen 236C without charge against Noel, but for the most part I've broken that bad habit. Other times were either 236D or had charge.

What kind of mobility should I use more of? It's true I don't charge enough (need to work more charge cancel etc. into game) but how does mobility mean more charge? Or how can I keep the opponent from getting to me? She is fast but I can't just flip around like Valk either...sometimes I use 236C to go under a jumping opponent and get some space, or j.214C for the same purpose when in the air & someone's running in.

[Kiba]

So that's how to follow up on 22A CH~! To the lab I go.

Yeah, I'm working on not throwing out 5BB so much (stopping at 5B).

Those 236A during pressure were just pure reflex/accident. I slap myself whenever I do it. Sometimes, however, I'll land 5BB > 2BB > 5CC and try to go into 236A > etc. but the 236A won't connect in time. Should I only use this path if I start the combo close to them, and just end with 22B instead?

I did use one fullscreen 236C without charge against Noel, but for the most part I've broken that bad habit. Other times were either 236D or had charge.

What kind of mobility should I use more of? It's true I don't charge enough (need to work more charge cancel etc. into game) but how does mobility mean more charge? Or how can I keep the opponent from getting to me? She is fast but I can't just flip around like Valk either...sometimes I use 236C to go under a jumping opponent and get some space, or j.214C for the same purpose when in the air & someone's running in.

What I normally do when I'm close to my opponent is 5BB > (2BB) > 5CC > 214A/236A > 22B. If you're not too close, omit the 236A/214A and use 22B, since it'll hit at max range and has the most untechable time out of the 3.

When I say mobility, I mean more dashing, more IAD backwards and creating more space between you and your opponent so it's easier for you to charge and so that's its more work for your opponent to try and get you. Sorry I should've explained it better. Remember you can IAD backwards > j.CC to sorta 'glide'. If you're remaining stationary it's not too hard for the opponent to get onto you if you see what I mean. Using 236C to get underneath opponents is fine, but sometimes you may want to AA them, get your full combo, knockdown and oki. Exceptions apply of course, for example it's understandable if you were playing against Valkenhayn and Tager and used 236C to go under because they have options against your AA by either baiting it and hitting you. However if someone like Noel is jumping onto you, don't be afraid to AA them for time to time. j.214C is good to create more distance between yourself and the opponent too but try not to be obvious with this because they can AA you or even throw you out. It's better to use j.214C when you're opponent is right underneath you and you're trying to get out of the corner. Hope this helps and you're welcome.

P.S I would've critiqued your Valk too, but Dreize covered everything.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Kiba

[Velvien]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUCAfzF3hQA

Me playing, and getting mostly curbstomped by, Dreiko. Looking for critique. I already know this much:

- Lots of missed confirms

- Still too much 236C/3C

- tend to autopilot/be predictable

- I flail. A lot.

[Kiba]

There is a hefty reliance on 3C throughout those matches and most of the time you got belted for doing it. Do not throw it out like that although I know you spotted this for yourself. I also don't agree with the use RC you used in the 5CC > 22B > 3CC > RC > 2CC > Special ender at 9:29 because you could've saved the heat for something much more worthwhile. Ideally the combo could've been optimised with 5CC > 6BB > 236C > 214B > 22B. I think you ought to stop using 22A enders because they have the most recovery and it hampers your pressure advantage, so use 22B. With your bnb combos use 236A/214A > 22B enders. 22B has the most untechable time.

You also do not seem to be very mobile, and so Dreiko isn't gonna have a hard time getting onto you. You could remedy this by using IADs both backwards and forwards. Furthermore when you knock Dreiko down, most of the time you back away. Sometimes he did have the heat so you could've been avoiding a reversal which is alright and all but at the same time you're not giving Dreiko a hard time. His answer is always going to be to save the heat and get out with ease.

Pressure could be better because it seems a little one dimensional. You're going for really basic stuff and then when you reset pressure, you're not close enough for the moves to connect, making them whiff. It also gives Dreiko the chance to escape or punish the recovery of your whiffed normals. Try to incorporate faster/shorter mixups into your game, like 5A/2A pressure, 5C/5B > Charge cancel stuff and more throws. You can also get more information on blockstrings from the Tsubaki wiki.

In neutral you're whiffing a lot of normals, especially 5CC which you seem to be doing alot, and I'm not sure why you're pressing buttons on your wakeup. Dreiko is just getting unecessary CHs on you so the best option is to just block (DPs are the exception ofc). 236x is pretty useless in this matchup because Bang has nails, so you really shouldn't be using it at all. Instead, when you're full screen away, you should either be focusing on charging (you don't really do that and unblockables can help with your corner mixups), or trying to manouvere around Bang's nails. Remember, Bang has no real viable reversal option on his wakeup outside of meter use so throws and unblockables are good if you want to avoid getting hit by drives.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Kiba