[CS1] Rachel vs Noel

[Jason D.]

This thread is for discussing the Rachel vs Noel match-up in BB:CS. All comers welcome.

[Jason D.]

I personally haven't fought a lot of good Noels, but I'll try to put down what I've seen so far.

For one, she's a close range character. (Despite using guns. Go figure.) So zoning her works pretty well. Try to keep her back, annoy her, and take whatever damage you can get. She may try to fight back with her Optic Barrel, but it's hard to be in the right range for that, and the damage is poor even if it does hit. Pressuring and oki games work really well on her too, since her only reversal is her ground super, and that takes meter, is hard to motion out instantly, and highly unsafe on block.

When she is on top of you, she generally tries to do a lot of frame traps with her A normals. Just be patient. Don't mash, and don't try to 2C her, or else you're just going to get counter hit. And watch for tick throws. Now, when she is ready to go for broke, she'll usually do a 50-50 with her 6B overhead, or 3C low. Both of these will end with the 3C, which is very unsafe on block. IB it and punish with a 5B or 2A. Choose wisely, and you can hurt her, or choose poorly, and she'll get you for a long combo. Which works extra well on Rachel, of course.

Now, more likely, she'll simply start a chain drive right next to you and try to mix you up during that. Her usual 5D and 6D starters do have some invincibility, and this includes invincibility to Lobelias, so be careful about throwing moves out when she's in range. When she is in chain mode, I find it best to stay blocking low. This will take her low kick and her leaping grab out of the equation. At this point, you only have to watch out for her overhead axe kick. And if you can stand up to block that on reaction, you might as well just 2C it on reaction instead. Also don't forget that she has that cross-up shoulder tackle move, but it usually isn't a huge deal since hitting with it will end her pressure string.

Also, IBing and mashing 2C during her chain drives can have limited success, but know that baits like her 4D can punish you really badly for trying this.

If you're comboing Noel on the ground with the old 5CDC -> 236B, keep in mind that she falls back further and is kind of tricky to hit with a run-up 6A after that. If the 5CDC is hitting at around its max range, you might want to just cut your losses and do a Sword Iris or BBL without running up.

[Raptor]

I could use some experience against Rachel, or any Noels to fight against my Rachel. From what I can observe, Optic barrel is fast enough to beat almost all of Rachel's lobelias. With wind I'm not sure who's projectile hits first.

[tofurr]

The 5CC corner loop, do you do it like this for Noel:

5B, 5CDC, George, 66, 2B, (5B?), 5CC, 5CC, Pumpkin...

Also, if that is correct above, do you 2B again once you get the pumpkin out or would a 3C work?

And I'm guessing if all that is also true, then you'd have to use 2B instead of 3C on Lambda, Carl, and possibly Mu aswell?

[mooyang90]

Coming from a Noel players standpoint her 5a frame traps really aren't that good. Just randomly instant block any 5a and just jump out of it.

It's a good idea to try and zone Noel out with lobelias, but watch out for spacing. Noel has one of the fast run speeds in the game, and if you whiff a random B/C lobelia at the wrong distance you will be punished.

If you want to go on the offensive against Noel, please be aware of Noel's D attacks. I know Rachel's love trying to fish for a combo with some random 2a, 6a, or 4b hit. Keep in mind that Noel has good counters for all of these moves, and that one lucky 5d hit from Noel can easily take 4k+ damage from you. What I would suggest is to always have George covering you before you attempt any sort of offense.

2c is a good mashable move to use during Noel's drive mixups, but Noel players can easily just rapid out of a drive starter attack, bait your 2c, then proceed to haida loop you for half your health. Keep an eye on Noel's meter, if she has 50 heat proceed to 2c with caution.

It's an even match-up. If you press too many buttons Rachel will get owned, but if you're patient Noel really can't do shit.

[Jason D.]

The 5CC corner loop, do you do it like this for Noel:

5B, 5CDC, George, 66, 2B, (5B?), 5CC, 5CC, Pumpkin...

Also, if that is correct above, do you 2B again once you get the pumpkin out or would a 3C work?

And I'm guessing if all that is also true, then you'd have to use 2B instead of 3C on Lambda, Carl, and possibly Mu aswell?

While you can't hit Noel (and Carl, Lambda, etc.) on the ground with a 3C, it is fine to use during the 5CC wall bounce loops. This is because when she hits the ground after hitting the wall, she'll bounce once, and you can 3C her during this bounce (and then drop George).

[Sindelian]

Okay, what moves do not go right through Noel's drive attacks.

[Konton]

5d, 2d, and 4d are the only moves with invulnerability to worry about. You can cat chair drive strings. Just be smart and time lobelias if they're spamming 5d for approach and j.236b if they're using 4d as an anti-air.

[GenoWhirl]

While you can't hit Noel (and Carl, Lambda, etc.) on the ground with a 3C, it is fine to use during the 5CC wall bounce loops. This is because when she hits the ground after hitting the wall, she'll bounce once, and you can 3C her during this bounce (and then drop George).

You can't corner loop 2B Chars (and Litchi) starting from 5B though.

Also, watch out for Bullet Rain (*glares at Norcal Install*)

[Jason D.]

Also, watch out for Bullet Rain (*glares at Norcal Install*)

Quoted for truth. A good B or C Lobelia can hit her before she's in position, but for the most part it's a great full-screen punish for summoning anything.