[CS1] Iron Tager Vs Makoto

[evilben]

can makoto do that? huh, well, even if she can we can follow up the 2c with 4d which at worst brings us back to neutral and leaves her magged, or if makoto does the high version and blocks id bet that we could snag an AC on her before she recovers from the barrier.

[Azzal]

Thanks Nini Heart for the explanation. I think you understood my problems better than Osuna and Evilben, sorry guys! The overhead I talked about was the C AV follow ups yeah.

[A.X.I.S.]

FYI 4D beats her roll and most her stuff when she runs in.

The only thing that I know that beats 4D when she magnetized is 5C.

Another thing I want to bring up is Makoto 2A...yeah your not gonna stuff it...it's too good.

Treat her DP like its ID but the difference here is you don't have to spend a huge chunk of your time baiting it because it doesn't lead into stupid, Well unless you count being pushed into the corner stupid.

Her tail (J.2C) clashes with a lot of stuff and the only thing that it won't beat is 2C unless she does it perfectly on your wake up, another thing to note: her tail is jump cancelable.

[Nini Heart]

FYI 4D beats her roll and most her stuff when she runs in.

Treat her DP like its ID but the difference here is you don't have to spend a huge chunk of your time baiting it because it doesn't lead into stupid, Well unless you count being pushed into the corner stupid.

Her tail (J.2C) clashes with a lot of stuff and the only thing that it won't beat is 2C unless she does it perfectly on your wake up, another thing to note: her tail is jump cancelable.

4D does beat roll and a lot of stuff but i've had circumstances where the roll went under the 4D. I think the hitbox on 4D is bigger in the earlier frames or something.

As for the DP, this is what we'll be doing once we (eventually)become less scrubby, so watch out when she gat meter

Thanks Nini Heart for the explanation. I think you understood my problems better than Osuna and Evilben, sorry guys! The overhead I talked about was the C AV follow ups yeah.

No biggie. Just remember that blocking high after the A asteroid vision C follow up is the option that leads to the least damage.

[Mike Z]

4D is bigger closer to Tager, it won't OTG (or hit the roll) if the opponent is farther out.

[natearistata]

I've had 5D hit that roll once ever. It's definitely not easy to do/reliable at all, because I'm like 1/10 with it, but it hits somehow. I'm guessing at max range.

[A.X.I.S.]

More like start up.

I use 5B or 4D to stuff it.

[CrazyApe]

I fought like twenty matches with Omniscythe regularly and I can say most of my wins come from

5k fatal counter to punish squirrel tail

3c to beat roll and most of her footsies

And people should learn the Gadget Finger into Atomic Collider rapid thing.... so much free damage

[OmniSScythe]

I fought like twenty matches with Omniscythe regularly and I can say most of my wins come from

5k fatal counter to punish squirrel tail

3c to beat roll and most of her footsies

And people should learn the Gadget Finger into Atomic Collider rapid thing.... so much free damage

As soon as I find out if I can punish a whiff by staying just out it's range IT IS ON.

[CrazyApe]

As soon as I find out if I can punish a whiff by staying just out it's range IT IS ON.

Lol when I figure out how to punish dem block strings without getting punished ITS ON =)

[Azzal]

Having a really hard time against good Makoto pressure. Everyone says " there are lots of gaps lolol" but hell, I can't find some... I don't know what to IB, tried to ib a lot of stuff but can't counter his pressure, once she's in, well, I just have to prey...

I can't stand this character and I think that in CS 2 I will be horrible...

[IrishVoa]

Having a really hard time against good Makoto pressure. Everyone says " there are lots of gaps lolol" but hell, I can't find some... I don't know what to IB, tried to ib a lot of stuff but can't counter his pressure, once she's in, well, I just have to prey...

I can't stand this character and I think that in CS 2 I will be horrible...

I'm in pretty much the same boat. The size of the Irish scene limits who I get to play on a regular basis, so my main training buddy is a Makoto player... I've had well over a hundred and fifty games with him at this stage, and we went from me winning 9-1 (first few hours of his play time with the squirrel) to 5-5 (after a week or 2) to 2-8 (current...). Any time I try to read what he's going to do, he does something else; if I think he's gonna 3C, I 3C. Then he dashes in and puts me in an ambiguous blockstring with a 50-50 chance of catching me...then putting me into the corner and keeping me there until I burst, die or CA and run like a bitch (and even then I'll get caught by her jabs on wakeup...)

Here's two vids showing off what happens when I have to fight him...I only do well when I play entirely unlike myself and randomise my moves (note the first match has me Tagering only in game 1...I was too frustrated and swapped over to my trolly Haz);

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61Stnr_QXj8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLZAREBXLb8

[A.X.I.S.]

4D beats her on the ground and trades if she's in the air magnetized 3C can stuff her ground moves too but I never tried and

quit jumping on makoto's wake up, you should be making her jump instead.

Meaty 2B will stuff jump outs and makes for a great combo starter.

Ugh I'll play Omni today and post some info when I'm done.

[natearistata]

pretty sure you can IB 360 any of her pokes that aren't 5/2A.

[Azzal]

Yeah, Axis we're not asking for zoning tools or good pokes against her, well we already know them, but we just wanna know how to deal with her insane pressure.

[natearistata]

It's not insane though. When she goes for either 2C or her overhead, you can easily 360 that, and almost every Makoto auto-pilots blockstrings to that move (usually the overhead). If they go for the move where she splits up and they try to cross you up, you can 360 that. Hell, you don't even have to 360 it, you can just normal throw it. Or 2C fatal it.

Or EZ mode it and backdash>360A everything.

[IrishVoa]

pretty sure you can IB 360 any of her pokes that aren't 5/2A.

I'm sure I've tried it in casuals...but I'll keep it in mind and try my best to it in the next match I have against him and he's magnetised.

That said, my biggest gripe against her is I can't punish brainless pressure like I can against his Ragna. Run in-anything will outrange my 360A/B depending on timing/magnetism (much more than anyone else I ever fight against...) and backdashing against him is a big no-no, I get caught out each and every time.

[A.X.I.S.]

Um the thing about the match is you want to zone her and keep her out, she can't do much to us on the outside but when she gets in you have to guess,

its way easier out poking her when she is trying to get in instead of letting her in because she can do some things to you that you have to react to.

I also want to note that back dash works well against her just don't use it on her 3C or jer j.2C...you will get hurt.

[IrishVoa]

I also want to note that back dash works well against her just don't use it on her 3C or jer j.2C...you will get hurt.

Hm...every single time I backdash the makoto I play against, I get caught by something. Even when I'm going to barrier against him straight after, I'm still caught. jC, 6B, mashymashy 5A it's always something...

[Azzal]

Ok I'll try that. Trained to IB the move before the 6B, works well (at least in training, online... well...)

Noticed that I can mash 720 before the 6b in blockstring, don't even need IB to do the 720, pretty ugly, but, hell, it works.

I just have issues reacting to her AV... need more reflexes, or maybe stop online mode. :p

Thanks for advices.

[A.X.I.S.]

I played Omnisscythe.

Why does makoto have practical 8k combo's?

Why does her 2A beat everything and 5C stuff my pokes mid range?

Why does her pokes feel like it has more hit stun than it should?

In case you didn't get it...I didn't win.

Back dashing works as I almost backdash 720'd him but a 5C came out instead, life story folks I ruined a game winning 720.

/Hate netplay.

[OmniSScythe]

I played Omnisscythe.

Why does makoto have practical 8k combo's?

Why does her 2A beat everything and 6C stuff my pokes mid range?

Why does her pokes feel like it has more hit stun than it should?

In case you didn't get it...I didn't win.

Back dashing works as I almost backdash 720'd him but a 5C came out instead, life story folks I ruined a game winning 720.

/Hate netplay.

6C is too strong of a poke on Tager, I wouldn't suggest backdash as good option to try a lot on Makoto due to stuff like 6C/orb and j.2C beating it every time.

Also Tager's 3C is definitely a good poke if spaced right.

[A.X.I.S.]

That was 6C? I thought it was your 5C.

3C is a good poke if your not throwing out 6C at max range. (It stuffed me a few times when I tried.)

Wanna play me some more later Omni?

[OmniSScythe]

Yeah I'll be up for some games later.

[Bacon4thetakin]

Always be ready for 3C. Punish with Buster accordingly.

And for the love of God, don't let her bait your sparkbolt..

That's the main things to watch for in this matchup, I have a friend who mains makoto so I know most of the tricks.

Blocking her BnB's isn't too hard, just be ready to adjust for the overhead/low enders.

Oh, and fuck God Tail..lol