HiagoX Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 Alright; so I'm trying to pick up Makoto as a secondary, and I thought I'd post here for some help. I'll post some more videos tomorrow, but this was the only replay I saved of my Makoto play. (Sorry for the bad encoding and sound and ... everything >___>) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lks6HLjgKJQ My blockstrings don't work, and I can't seem to poke holes in people's defense with Makoto's mixups, and I'm really addicted to 5CC 6B 5C, which is bad. I also seem to really like air dashing in, which dosn't work all the time. What else am I missing? Don't go for 5D on block unless you want to be cool and RC it to mix-up again or guard crush. Don't use 214B/C~D fullscreen like that. I couldn't even watch the entire video because school is painful, I'll be here later to look at it again.
Wutai_Shinobi Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 (moved this post to here, where I meant to put it in the first place lol) OK~ I took a long break from gaming and have just got back on the BB horse~ taking the advice I was given earlier, I'm opening more opportunities for damage than before~ so things are starting to work out lol. I'm trying to up my damage output now by learning some of the combos in the Basics Combo video~ (note: I've always been horrid at execution) I pretty much got down: (corner only) 5b, 5cc, 6b, 5d, 662c, 2d, j.d, 66~236a~d, 7d, 66-6b, (236a-reset) It's pretty easy actually. 3851 dmg. Now, I'm looking for a midscreen combo, most of which in the vid are either off throws or AA. Is there a easy but still good one off common pokes 2A, 2B, 5B or something else? Right now I'm not sure what to do that isn't just barely over 2k dmg. As far as throw combos, my friend is working on: b+c, 214a~c~d, 2d, 665b, 6a, sjc.cb, jc.cb, j.623c~d I guess that's standard midscreen fare? for AA I was thinking of practicing: 6a, 665cc, 2d(1), 5cc, sjc.cb, jc.cb, j.623c~d Why? Because there's another combo that starts with j.b and is otherwise the same. I figure if I use variants of the same combo, I can make up for my poor execution whilst still having options lol. I guess for corner throws, I should do something a arrow loop in it? I just want to ask if I'm on the right track~ Though, I'm lacking a plan for midscreen pressure/mixups/gimmicks.
excelence Posted March 25, 2011 Posted March 25, 2011 Just my 2 cent On far mid screen ... i'm suggesting corner carry for normal starter or back throw into PF orb combo... for forward throw, after b+c, 214a~c~d, 2d if corner is on proximity i'll go into Arrow route with C asteroid starter .... iirc, if u forward throw on starting position, u can go into arrow route from there. on AA... i'd like to assume most of it is ch hit confirm what i currently practicing 6a(ch) > 6[6]a > 2d(1) > 5cc > 2d(3) > orb route other version is 6a(ch) > 5b > 6a > 2d > orb .... <- got trouble to hit with 2d so i don't use this for corner throw, what i do recently is b+c > 6a > 5d > 662c > 2d > j.d > arrow ... 5.7k~6.7k ... i may have some idea push this to 6~7k... but not really sure
MarkusArx Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 Alright, I've tried and tried, but I'm finally giving up and asking for help. How in the hell do you do Double Lightning Arrows in the corner? I cannot get this right at all despite having everything else down.
excelence Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 I think u should ask this on combo thread ... but still related to self improvement, so whatever >.> Well if u search on the old combo thread ... there's a .gif that explain how to hit with lightning arrow, but can't find it =_= ... i'll try to help as i can. In my case i found looping 214c~d>214b~d easier than 214b~d>214c~d. on 214c~d, u started charging when Makoto is on maximum height of her jump (she is on lifebar height). then on 214b~d ... u do the similar i think, delay a bit for the d charge then go to practice, 1st i'm suggesting Rachel as dummy, since u can mess your timing as much as u can on her silly hitbox ... once u get the combos red beat on her move on to Ragna/Haku/Mu then Jin <- if u can do it on Jin, u should'n't have too much trouble hitting most of the cast i think (Hazama / litchi have weird hitbox =_=)
Duqs Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 (moved this post to here, where I meant to put it in the first place lol) OK~ I took a long break from gaming and have just got back on the BB horse~ taking the advice I was given earlier, I'm opening more opportunities for damage than before~ so things are starting to work out lol. I'm trying to up my damage output now by learning some of the combos in the Basics Combo video~ (note: I've always been horrid at execution) I pretty much got down: (corner only) 5b, 5cc, 6b, 5d, 662c, 2d, j.d, 66~236a~d, 7d, 66-6b, (236a-reset) It's pretty easy actually. 3851 dmg. Now, I'm looking for a midscreen combo, most of which in the vid are either off throws or AA. Is there a easy but still good one off common pokes 2A, 2B, 5B or something else? Right now I'm not sure what to do that isn't just barely over 2k dmg. As far as throw combos, my friend is working on: b+c, 214a~c~d, 2d, 665b, 6a, sjc.cb, jc.cb, j.623c~d I guess that's standard midscreen fare? for AA I was thinking of practicing: 6a, 665cc, 2d(1), 5cc, sjc.cb, jc.cb, j.623c~d Why? Because there's another combo that starts with j.b and is otherwise the same. I figure if I use variants of the same combo, I can make up for my poor execution whilst still having options lol. I guess for corner throws, I should do something a arrow loop in it? I just want to ask if I'm on the right track~ Though, I'm lacking a plan for midscreen pressure/mixups/gimmicks. Midscreen you can also do this 2A 5B 5C 6C 214b~j.a j.b djc delayed j.b delayed 623c delayed and whiffed D [land] 5b 6a sjc j.b djc j.b 623c -omni posted a vid of this i think, i forgot where exactly. But this is makoto's standard wall carry combo, from one end of the sccreen to the other. CH 623C delayed D [land] 5b 6a sjc j.c j.b djc j.b 623c you wont be able to use this all the time since its a DP on CH state, but if you do land a 623C and you dont have meter to RC it to 236a~d or what not, then this might be the way to go CH j.B [land] 5b 6a 2d -> lightning arrows and orbs galore or CH j.b [land] 5b 6a jcancel j.b delayed j.b delayed 623c delayed and whiff D [land] 5b 6a sjc j.b djc j.b 623c -first one HURTS a lot, second one is a wall carry that deals 3k only. Nice to have combo i guess you can also parry then PF as niniheart demonstrated in his video.
Nini Heart Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) More recent footage of me playing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyDgLOVCcw4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAAquGDyg74 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdT8WMwtaqk&feature=related Stuff I noticed I should stop doing: 1. Dropping combos 2. Auto pilot 6A>Jump cancel, mostly into j.2c 3. Stop mashing 4. Actually start using the 6C>corner push thingy instead of going for gimmicks. 5. IB some more. 6. Losing to Tager Edited March 28, 2011 by Nini Heart
excelence Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 Looking at the 1st vid ... Hk matchup is my favourite match up recently lol I see u dropping some combos,... probably not your best day as i'm also playing like crap last week XD -. Imho u need to work on combo option like on 0:40 after u hit with 214aca>2d i think u should go into LA route for optimum damage -. on 1:19 ... also taking note for myself, buffering a on yukikaze super freeze is just dumb(done that 2 weeks ago orz) ... haven't tried this, but i think we can kara buffer 2a with grab/asteroid vision in case that ever happen again. -. on 2:15 ... again on yukikaze combo option... i'm not sure what u want to do, but if i'm on that situation i'll go with Grab counter the rest of the match is pretty good :D i'll look on 2nd vids when i have the time
Wutai_Shinobi Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 I want to say thanks to everyone that's helped me out. I've been playing a few games online lately so I can start applying the advice I've got and I'm doing a lot better. I'm more often beating people around my level save for some matchups~ I'm pouring through the matchup threads to smooth out my approach (which is incredibly important to those also having trouble with this game) and improved again just from that Gonna start polishing my midscreen game now with those combos Q('_'Q)
Nini Heart Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ3WLES4MiE Last video of the set. I did a lot of random stuff, failed some easy confirms cause my brain froze and dropped lotsa combos. 1. I see u dropping some combos,... probably not your best day as i'm also playing like crap last week XD 2. Imho u need to work on combo option like on 0:40 after u hit with 214aca>2d i think u should go into LA route for optimum damage 3. on 1:19 ... also taking note for myself, buffering a on yukikaze super freeze is just dumb(done that 2 weeks ago orz) ... haven't tried this, but i think we can kara buffer 2a with grab/asteroid vision in case that ever happen again. 4. on 2:15 ... again on yukikaze combo option... i'm not sure what u want to do, but if i'm on that situation i'll go with Grab counter 1. Yeah I was still adjusting. I only play this game like once-twice a week at meet ups now so I need some time to adjust from marvel. 2. Yeah, that's what I was going for but I got a level 2 J.D, so I tried to salvage the combo the best I could. 3. Yeah it's stupid, i'mma try kara-canceling into PF next time, but I doubt it will work. 4. Burst bait fail Thx for the feedback Edited March 28, 2011 by Nini Heart
milesw Posted March 29, 2011 Posted March 29, 2011 No feedback from me but i feel you in these tager matches you can deal as much damage as u want but if you fall for those damn gimmicks its all your health gone and GGs Nice one on with the lightning arrows after a blocked 5CC i have to test that out. Many Tagers I play love to backdash after that string. However i believe if he IBs the last hit he can can buster you and everyone else can 5a you... :8/:
Nini Heart Posted March 29, 2011 Posted March 29, 2011 I dunno about bustering or even punishing with 5A. I use 5CC as my 720 bait a lot of the times since most Tager's expect you to 6B and mash 720 at that point, and I've never be grabbed out of 5CC>214B/C, IB or not. You're canceling the recovery frames of 5CC with 214B/C, so in the end, it really depends on how long 214B/C takes to go airborne. He can 2C fatal your ass though if he expects you to 214B/C
milesw Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) I dunno about bustering or even punishing with 5A. I use 5CC as my 720 bait a lot of the times since most Tager's expect you to 6B and mash 720 at that point, and I've never be grabbed out of 5CC>214B/C, IB or not. You're canceling the recovery frames of 5CC with 214B/C, so in the end, it really depends on how long 214B/C takes to go airborne. He can 2C fatal your ass though if he expects you to 214B/C Yeah well if he does decide to 2c fatal if he guesses wrong he can get his ass 2c fataled by us I imagine if he doesn't want to backdash(but then again he can 360 if he expects a 2c @_@). We're just gonna have to mix it up I guess. either way I feel we will have the upper hand if we guess right due to the damage output being higher than Tager's choices Im gonna test that out. But yeah It also seems like corona upper delay lv1 ender>orb seems to be a bad idea if Tager has meter for 720. I think the same is for the 6B orb oki... I'd imagine we would have to go straight into a j.cc after the orb to avoid that... Edited March 30, 2011 by milesw
Nini Heart Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Yeah, J.D/5D orb oki is much better on anyone with a frame 1 invincible move IMO
OmniSScythe Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 Actually if done right you can be airborne way before Tager's 720 or anyone else invincible move can come out if the corona upper knock down was done.
milesw Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 There you go. Switch it up lads How about hakumen? Can he yukikaze out of it?
excelence Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 There you go. Switch it up lads How about hakumen? Can he yukikaze out of it? Yes he can @Nini : looking at the rest of the match up ... and realizing i have no Tg experience, half of the time i don't know what the hell is happening there lol ... anyway, cross up Lightning arrow is neat~~~ XD
Nini Heart Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Yeah cross up lightning arrow is pretty fancy. I've got it to work on some other characters but I still don't know how it happens lol. And Tager match-up is the one I hate the most. I just don't like playing super safe and Tager's who I.B properly make you play like that. It's not hard or anything, it's just annoying. Either way, I counterpick with Hazama now, might as well lame it out all the fucken way while i'm at it. And orb oki on Haku doesn't really work. He can Yuki but you can jump over it, he can 2D(frame 1 startup lol...) but you can super jump to avoid being in the counter's grab range. Not sure if you can punish though.
MarkusArx Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 So, I finally figured out how to Lightning Arrow properly about a week and a half ago. I now know how to do everything I need to with Makoto, I just need to clean up a lot of my execution. Which is really fucking hard to do on pad. T_T
OmniSScythe Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 Hey I play on pad...Analog, all it takes is practice, especially under pressure.
Blubba_Pinecone Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) Lots'a stuff and such Thanks a bunch, miles, it was very helpful. The same night you posted this, I discovered this site had an inbox and found a pm from Nini telling me a lot of the same, especially about the unsafe blockstring, lol. I think I still need to learn what some of the notation is, lol. Dunno what oki or dp are. There's probably a notation guide somewhere but I haven't found it. <-< I should probably look up frame data too, now that I think of it. Been a bit busy with college/research and whatnot, but I got in a few games here and there and have been paying close attention to my play to try and improve as much as I could with what little time was available. Anywhoo I've been trying to apply the advice, and have a couple new vids up to critique for whoever is willing to. The main things I've been working on is having a less predictable offense/blockstring, though I'm still not sure if it's what someone would consider safe, and at this point could probably still use a bit more variation for certain situations (you'll see what I mean), and being able to capitalize on opportunity better; getting in more/the most damage I can. vs Rachel - Mu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zx7ADRF6ss Does Rachel have a weird/small hurtbox? I noticed when I went into 5cc > 6b > 5b on successful hits, that the 5b would whiff... a couple times when I remembered it didn't connect, I just skipped the 5b and went straight to 5d. If that's some kind of consistent match-up issue, I'll make sure to make note of it for later. vs Valk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KttQK3Jbn7c Specifically, I'm looking for things to improve on with mental gameplay; what options do I choose that are poor, and why. I'm not /as/ concerned with simple mechanical issues such as the failure of the ending combo on rebel 2 of Rachel, because those are an easy fix with more practice (I use a wired 360 controller, analog stick). But if you know better options to use, those would be good to know. I know one of my issues is that sometimes I am over-confident in a read (is it called a read here? sorry lol, I'm really only familiar with Smash jargon xD), and then act on that read before confirming that they're actually doing what I thought they were going to do... and get punished for it, lol. So, it's kinda like, pseudo-autopiloting, but at the end of the day, still stupid on my part. xD Anywhoo, hope to get some feedback, if I can. ... *previews post* Damn, I talk a lot. >-> <-< Edited April 19, 2011 by Blubba_Pinecone
Lusterleon Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 5cc>6b>5c doesn't really work on rachel since 6B forces them to crouch and well her crouching hitbox is stupid. So when fighting them do 5CC>6B>5D(Lvl3), Another thing is learn to block and insta block plus you gotta stop dropping those combo's man you make me cry when you do that. Your using comet cannon to much, i advise to use if the person has at least one primer left and or just to trick the person( cause usually they would jump over it and you can get just punish them with a anti-air), for now thats all i can say :D
milesw Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) Thanks a bunch, miles, it was very helpful. The same night you posted this, I discovered this site had an inbox and found a pm from Nini telling me a lot of the same, especially about the unsafe blockstring, lol. I vs Rachel - Mu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zx7ADRF6ss Does Rachel have a weird/small hurtbox? I noticed when I went into 5cc > 6b > 5b on successful hits, that the 5b would whiff... a couple times when I remembered it didn't connect, I just skipped the 5b and went straight to 5d. If that's some kind of consistent match-up issue, I'll make sure to make note of it for later. No prob dude. firstly dp is her corona upper. Its a simple get off me move if you use it wisely an oki is a like setting up an attack while the opponent is grounded and getting up. For example setting a comet above someone when they are on the floor. Sorry but im gonna be lazy tonight and abit nitpicky Im just gonna critique a few combos you did http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zx7ADRF6ss&feature=player_detailpage#t=390s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zx7ADRF6ss&feature=player_detailpage#t=102s At these two moments. You could have gone for more damage and potentially woulda killed the opponent quicker 1, A 214b~d( B version of lightning arrow) would have nicely felt at home in that combo after the fireball. Then you could do the 5d(drive) then you dash in 2C into super(or omit the 2c all together and it still woulda killed). The match woulda ended much quicker and lag wouldnt have saved the mu from having a potential comeback. 2, Again you could have went for another lightning arrow (C version) then end with super and that would have killed her. Unfortunately that cost you the round because of the lil mistake you made(which we all do now and then). But yeah I know online play really messes up Makoto and drives dont come out at certain times(and for real I know the difference between a lv 1 and level 3 drive make a huuuuuuuuuuuuge difference). The moral here is just go for something simpler at those times that you know will guarantee to kill them. Personally I don't tolerate cutting a combo short because you believe you will drop it. So I fully respect you for trying to finish your whole combos. But you kind of did yourself an injustice by not going quicker and easier options to win the round and ultimately risked having the whole match turned around thanks to lag. Just cut it sweet and short when it comes to online so you don't let the scrubs get away scot free lol. Oh and that throw combo you did. (I avoided using notations) throw>asteroid vision B>jump CC>etc.... That needs to stop. Its better to do something like throw>asteroid vision A~C~D> down D>etc... (you should be able to free style from there). Edit: oh and yeah the last C in 6b~c misses rachel and a few other characters. because of this i always tend to end my midscreen combo with 6b>etc... Hope this helped bro. Edited April 20, 2011 by milesw
MarkusArx Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 Hey I play on pad...Analog, all it takes is practice, especially under pressure. I can't get used to the position of the Playstation Controller's analog. it feels so awkward for a fighter. @_@
excelence Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) @Blubba_Pinecone: vs Ra(2:50)/vs Mu(6:24): Learn to know your position on the screen and get use to switching combo route. On Rachel case, instead of 5d>66>Comet meaty, you should 5d>66>2d>... on Mu you should go for 2c>2d>j.d>... for optimum damage. vs Valk : ... Try to get your signature color @1:07 > don't random BBS on Thousand Wolf Hound range ... that Valk can buffer it on BBS super freeze and bite your ass away ... generally random BBS is bad!~~~ @6:50 > if i get my memory correct, on that position u can get throw>5d>66>2c>2d>... @11:40 > RC!!! ... get that habit on reaction down ... Good play i could say, there's only a little combo dropping issue, learn to switching combo route and match up knowledge ... and take notes at opponent primer on the match, if there's 1 left... just 5d it away @markus : It's all about practice like Omni said, just get use to what u feel most comfortable with. Edited April 20, 2011 by excelence
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