[CS1] Makoto vs Noel

[Axle_the_red]

So...we don't have this thread...and now we do!

I totally got screwed by a drive mashing Noel the other day...it's a lot harder to knock her out of her drives than I remembered it being in CT...her 5D and 4D have invlun frames and her 6D is a lot faster...how does Makoto handle this?

[DC]

Hm, maybe the frame 1 invincible uppercut she has?

[Big Red Tie]

how about dat parry

or projectile?!

[Axle_the_red]

Not going to lie...her 4D is what keeps getting me. It moves backwards and has invincibility high I believe? it seems like I can't ever approach her because of that 4D...I guess confirm if 4D has low invuln?

As for projectiles...hers are faster...so...

It seems mostly that I ahve problems approaching. Her 2D is low invlun...and her 4D is high invuln (maybe), and it just seems like nothing can be done to get in close...

[Big Red Tie]

her projectiles are nonexistent if she's drive spamming, meaning you can easily get a fatal combo on her

or you can uppercut her

or you can parry her

or you can poke her with 5B, 6C, 5A, etc.

or you can instant block her unsafe drive moves and super jump out

[seyu]

ill write here what i wrote in the "approaching with makoto"-thread:

fought a good noel, its hard to approach her. 5d sometimes goes through her drive and hits, hard to time though and only possible if they try to go in with a drive attack.

faster then her drive and good for combos is 5CC.

3C is kinda bad cause it loses to pretty much any of her attacks, except her projectile thingy. if theyre scared to counter its okay.

j2C is alright though, but dont get predictable cause it loses to any air attack. makes a nice overhead though

[Wutai_Shinobi]

Also, Noel's 4D doesn't have invulnerability. It has a large column for it's active frames that's very tall though.

But ya, block smarter, some drive stings can be poked through. 5D can be thrown early as well as 6D.

[Halcyone3]

Also, Noel's 4D doesn't have invulnerability. It has a large column for it's active frames that's very tall though.

But ya, block smarter, some drive stings can be poked through. 5D can be thrown early as well as 6D.

her 4D has invincibility, upper body, starting at frame 1, makes for a makeshift AA.

[Wutai_Shinobi]

Ah, you're right on the invincibility. I was recalling the images from the frame data~ the column of attack zone was pretty nuts hehe. But the Noel CS guide states it's true invul

[Halcyone3]

Ah, you're right on the invincibility. I was recalling the images from the frame data~ the column of attack zone was pretty nuts hehe. But the Noel CS guide states it's true invul

4D should only give upper body, 5D is the only one with full body...... now u have me doubting though.

it is upper body, i think mooyang was using "true invincibility" to contrast it to CT's 4D, not sure. But it's definately upper body only.

[HiagoX]

As far as this matchup goes, it's pretty annoying. Noel's Drive invencibility frames makes you want to throw your controller at your TV screen. While fighting her, people should proceed with caution, not going all out.

[bmckay]

As far as this matchup goes, it's pretty annoying. Noel's Drive invencibility frames makes you want to throw your controller at your TV screen. While fighting her, people should proceed with caution, not going all out.

Yeah, I learned this shit last night. I wanted to cry. Mainly because of going in and stopping when I see a 4D.

Is it just me or is a metric ASSLOAD of Noel's Dspam safe on block? Like, either it pushes out of Makoto's range or has good frame advantage when followed by another D?

[Wutai_Shinobi]

Mash A. Doesn't work? Mash harder lol. Sometimes the A spam will happen so often and fast that it goes past the invincibility frames and hits her out of her chain. If Noel is using stuff to push you away when you block, it's because she's trying to end the string safely, so be prepared for a reset situation. Noel's d.5B (a side kick with lots of push back) is one such move, and some strings will end in an Optic Barrel which is +0 on block. Bloom Trigger drive ender is fairly safe from a distance too~

If the Noel is spamming drive moves on block that are not that, there is likely gaps to be poked thru, tho it's always safest just to block... That is, unless she's using a lot of d.6C which breaks a primer. I like to use it often if I think an opponent will sit back and block, then break someone with a drive ender~ run up to combo.

[seyu]

i was playing two pretty good noels yesterday. they gave me some tips what to do: you got hardly any way to go through her 5D. only way is IAD CC or j2C.

-her unsafe drives are: spring raid(upward kick) easy to punish.

-the thing where she throws her gun at you>block and corona upper.

-her overhead, the axekick>also corona upper after block.

still i also lost gainst some stupid drive spammer noel today. match was laggy, but still it was annoying.

youre not damned to block though. dashing in with 2a(or 5a) is also okay. but still those two prorate your combos heavily and you cant do the corner combos with 214C~D, cause theyll be able to tech out.

[Runis]

The spinny gun (aka d.6C) is safe. Noel can just d.6C d.5A which has no hole and then completely mess your reversal timing and go for 4D fatal when your mashed Corona turns into a mashed 3C/2C. or if she's feeling spiffy, use d.5B to push you out of corona range, reset drive and then just CH you on the way down.

That is however, if the noel actually knows their drive strings. 99.9999999% of online noel does not.

Try to corona her after she does any drive other than d.5B as there are holes in almost everything other than d.6C. even if she does Assault through as a follow up, I think that the corona will take you out of range and you'd both recover fairly similar times.

[excelence]

I'do vote for above... Noel hole on drive spam is everywhere and the startup is pretty noticeable, just Corona any of her drive which isn't 4d ... otherwise

[whitevoid]

Yeah, I learned this shit last night. I wanted to cry. Mainly because of going in and stopping when I see a 4D.

Is it just me or is a metric ASSLOAD of Noel's Dspam safe on block? Like, either it pushes out of Makoto's range or has good frame advantage when followed by another D?

If she goes into recovery (she reloads), then you should be able to punish her. None of her Drive enders leave her at a frame advantage. 236D pushes out fairly well though, but you can probably 632146D, it especially if you IB it. There can be gaps in Drive, but 623D or d5A will always transition safely I believe, but most attacks will leave a gap during Drive. With a DP and a Parry, Drive really shouldn't be a problem for Makoto.

[kuma]

I'm still not an expert on this matchup, but one thing that I've noticed playing Noel-Noel matches is that D spamming Noels tend to go on a linear path to you and then hover around your location. You can take a bit of advantage from this by double jumping straight upward, letting Noel get below you, and then attacking her from above. Because D tracks, while you're above her she'll be moving back and forth directly below you, and since she's crossing you up it'll be harder for her to do things like DP.

[seyu]

so what do you guys do against 4D? i find it incredibly hard to approach noels that just react to your approaches with 4D. i tried to stop short and punish with break shot, but that takes a bit to long.

the rest of makotos normals cant really reach her. j2C clashes(best case scenario), but since noel is on the ground already and youre not she got the advantage.

so yea what to do? just sit there and wait for the noel to approach?

[kuma]

Have you tried baiting 4D with neutral impact? If you catch them out on it a couple times, they'll be more likely to use it sparingly.

[seyu]

like just 5D? o never even tried that thanks:)

[kuma]

Yeah, because you pull back it puts you out of range of the 4D, and there's plenty of time to charge it to 3 before Noel finishes with her 4D. Unfortunately, if you're at midscreen there's not much you can follow up with. Getting punished for the 4D should be enough to make them more wary about using it in the future, though.

I'm not sure if you could use Shooting Star in the same manner, but if you could it would be a much better combo starter. I'll try it out next time I'm up against a Noel that loves 4D.

[seyu]

actually NVM

[JammyKuradoberi]

yupp lol the invincibility stuff has happened to me,I was just going through them

i guess our best bet really is just to be patient and wait out,as for Noels turn to your other side trick on her drive string,I guess you can jump away to over her,but Im still wondering if we can punish that easier

[DJHUOSHEN]

Break Shot ftw if they're trying to 'immune' you.