[CS1-CSE] Road to Ikaruga - The Bang Social thread - Do you even 3c?

[zeth07]

uhh idk if im off topic but how do u block this guy.... his mixup is so safe T^T @ certain distances he is 100% safe & taking primers WTF T-T & why aint he S-tier he RC'ed out of Jin Yukikaze

Quote LK:

Fullscreen:

Good idea to set the staff.

Against fullscreen nails - Poison Nail - IB, watch him. D nails - IB > back jump, watch him, or reposition. If they like using nails in neutral, it's better for us.

Midscreen:

Against D nails - IB > backjump or backstep. Jumping is preferable. If you're already in the air (which is the best case scenario), IB and dj/airdash awa/whatever. IB is +6 in the air.

Against jump ins - have to judge properly between 2A, 5A, itsuu, launch staff, jA... like CS1, there isn't one universal answer anymore. 5A definitely will never ever beat j4B btw. Slide 2A still works if they assume you'll stand up to block.

Against 5B - your 5B still wins. Staffless, use 2B. Slide 2A loses :/. Using 6D against it will trade in your favor.

Against 3C - just jump, don't try doing your 3C back on reaction. I'm thinking of trying to j2D it on reaction, gotta check. If you read it though, using your 3C is a fine answer. They will use 3C to stop Itsuu/6B.

Bang's Pressure:

2A > 2A = gap

5A > dash 5A = can't 2A in between unless you IB, but if you mash 5A you'll win for sure.

2A > 5B = gap

5A > 2A > no gap

5B > 5C/6A = gap

5B > 2B = no gap

Meaty 2B = beats backstep

Blocked 6D or 5D = always, always, ALWAYS use Tsbuame, he literally can't do ANYTHING to stop this, it's -13 and -15 on block (respectively), and Tsubame is 11f startup, meaning he can't do any 5D > block or 5D > Super crash shenanigans on you.

Meaty 5C = Don't dp this, he recovers before it comes out.

2B > D nails = An interesting situation, he's something like +5 on block, so first off, you should always IB this. If they like doing dash > normal, you can try doing IB > barrier jump (as barrier jumping makes your hitbox smaller than doing a normal jump). You can also IB throw, as your throw could beat a dashing normal. Both of those options are pretty risky though. Blocking is the safest, watchout for command grab after this.

2B > jump J4B = the basic low level Bang pressure, airthrow this shit.

Just change whatever is needed for whatever character you're playing.

And you can't just RC Yukikaze if you get caught, it would've had to been if he hit it with a projectile, in which case he probably didn't need to RC anyway.

Edited April 22, 2012 by zeth07
typo

[Akira-Shiro]

Hmm so all u did was futher prove my point u need a Dp to punish his fake BS like 5D & 6D but it was helpful none the less.

Also Zeth please dont underestimate me, i kno full well yukikaza does not lock the opponent if it is activated by a projectile. I Yuki'ed Asura & Raiza RC out of it took no dmg but Jin continued with the yuki dash animation.

It was Asura>Yuki>RC>dash attack whiff> O_O wtf in that exact order including the facial expression

Edited April 22, 2012 by Akira-Shiro

[huey253]

so what kind of content would you guys like added to the forums?

I could write up matchups, organize the forums, or record videos related to bang somehow.

[TD]

@akira: asura may be a projectile for both hits. in the wiki, it has HBF attributes for the first hit and HBP attributes for the second. it might just have not been known/important all this time.

for reference: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Frame_Data_(Bang_BBCSE)

jin/haku's yukikaze's will not catch projectiles and freeze the foe like a physical hit would, so it's a rather reasonable explanation. still could be wrong though.

best way to see is to go to training mode, have jin AND hakumen do their yukikaze's, and try to asura -> rapid -> jump. if it works then asura really is a projectile for both hits. if not... i'll be lost for words too lol

[zeth07]

Hmm so all u did was futher prove my point u need a Dp to punish his fake BS like 5D & 6D but it was helpful none the less.

Also Zeth please dont underestimate me, i kno full well yukikaza does not lock the opponent if it is activated by a projectile. I Yuki'ed Asura & Raiza RC out of it took no dmg but Jin continued with the yuki dash animation.

It was Asura>Yuki>RC>dash attack whiff> O_O wtf in that exact order including the facial expression

wtf are you talking about? Did you even read any of that? There's plenty of ways to stop/get out of his pressure besides just DP.

And why would I be "underestimating you"? If you knew that's how it works than you should've known the answer yourself. He can't magically get out of stuff, Ashura is probably a projectile, which makes sense because it's a huge explosion and not hitting with any part of his actual body.

so what kind of content would you guys like added to the forums?

I could write up matchups, organize the forums, or record videos related to bang somehow.

All of the above.

[YukiBlue]

Bang has holes in his pressure, LK's post pretty much gave you a "How to win against Bangs fraudulent 100% solid mixup/pressure"

[DLM UNDEAD]

so what kind of content would you guys like added to the forums?

I could write up matchups, organize the forums, or record videos related to bang somehow.

i personally would like to see the matchups the most but yeah what zeth said

[Dacidbro]

Akira you kind of remind me of the newspaper time-traveler "I've only done this once before"

good memories of ytmnd, thanks man

[Akira-Shiro]

Akira you kind of remind me of the newspaper time-traveler "I've only done this once before"

good memories of ytmnd, thanks man

idk who that is but Bang was frozen during yuki & he RC'ed & he did not jump Jin just went through him like he was inv the whole way through wat im saying is that the animation were a person hits yuki & they cannot move aka frozen in time. This happened mean Ashura is not a projectile BUT HE RC'ED & WAS 100% INV AS JIN DASHED THROUGH HIM... making bang S-tier

Edited April 23, 2012 by Akira-Shiro

[DJ_Blactricity]

idk who that is but Bang was frozen during yuki & he RC'ed & he did not jump Jin just went through him like he was inv the whole way through wat im saying is that the animation were a person hits yuki & they cannot move aka frozen in time. This happened mean Ashura is not a projectile BUT HE RC'ED & WAS 100% INV AS JIN DASHED THROUGH HIM... making bang S-tier

You caught ashura on a frame where it is invunerable. If I'm reading the frame data right it is invunerable for 2 of its 3 active frames. The rc has nothing to do with it. If yuki catches an attack you can rc, but you will still be frozen on the frame you were caught and you will still have your meter when yuki ends.

[Lord Cruxis]

so what kind of content would you guys like added to the forums?

I could write up matchups, organize the forums, or record videos related to bang somehow.

Yo I need match up knowledge on Tao. I can't do squat to that girl. Holy cow.w

[Chazmobile]

Jin was too much of a faggot to hurt Bang's manliness. The attack went through, Bang laughed, the end.

Problem solved.

[Fluck]

idk who that is but Bang was frozen during yuki & he RC'ed & he did not jump Jin just went through him like he was inv the whole way through wat im saying is that the animation were a person hits yuki & they cannot move aka frozen in time. This happened mean Ashura is not a projectile BUT HE RC'ED & WAS 100% INV AS JIN DASHED THROUGH HIM... making bang S-tier

This happens too if Jin catches another Jin doing 623B/C/D.

JIN FOR S-TIER?!?!?!!?!?!!!!?!

[Akira-Shiro]

hers the vid,,, pardon the quality i was using my phone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-F4prD_NBY

[Lucalibur]

hers the vid,,, pardon the quality i was using my phone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-F4prD_NBY

Oh man, this is beautiful. Best accidental use of INV frames i seen ever since i Daifunka'ed through Jin's ice wave+ice sword

It seems Jin is forever destined to have his shit ruined by Bang DD's invincibility.

[YukiBlue]

Critique me to shit. I'm posting it here because this is where the real traffic is at.

Nothing special, this is just me. I didn't go out of my way to make a perfect game to show you all, I wouldn't learn anything. Rip me to shreds, please.

Also, recorded on a poverty iPod Touch with no sound. HYPE.

[zeth07]

Critique me to shit. I'm posting it here because this is where the real traffic is at.

Nothing special, this is just me. I didn't go out of my way to make a perfect game to show you all, I wouldn't learn anything. Rip me to shreds, please.

Also, recorded on a poverty iPod Touch with no sound. HYPE.

My observations,

-Work on your hit confirming a little bit better and/or combos. A few times in the 1st round and a few more in the 2nd you didn't capitalize on certain hits. The end of the 1st round especially you didn't really do much off the hits and you have to realize that is giving the opponent a chance to come back.

-In relation to the above about the combos, some of the combos could've been a little better I guess.

-You seemed to auto pilot 5A>5B>2B sometimes.

-You used j.C a bit too carelessly.

[iw2ma]

I keep forgetting to post vids to be judged, i need it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/BoomGorillas?feature=g-all-u

This is a channel from a stream group that streamed a tournament over the weekend. Scroll down to Anime Freak (me) for Blazblue and tell me what's what. Im in 2 or 3 vids so i just linked to list.

I know some things already. Don't drop combos, which i do. J.D is my best friend, or so my inputs allow me to believe, should probably stop that.

[YukiBlue]

My observations,

-Work on your hit confirming a little bit better and/or combos. A few times in the 1st round and a few more in the 2nd you didn't capitalize on certain hits. The end of the 1st round especially you didn't really do much off the hits and you have to realize that is giving the opponent a chance to come back.

-In relation to the above about the combos, some of the combos could've been a little better I guess.

-You seemed to auto pilot 5A>5B>2B sometimes.

-You used j.C a bit too carelessly.

Thanks Zeth ill take all of that on board.

Anyone else got things to say? Need moar critique.

[Dacidbro]

idk who that is but Bang was frozen during yuki & he RC'ed & he did not jump Jin just went through him like he was inv the whole way through wat im saying is that the animation were a person hits yuki & they cannot move aka frozen in time. This happened mean Ashura is not a projectile BUT HE RC'ED & WAS 100% INV AS JIN DASHED THROUGH HIM... making bang S-tier

UNDENIABLE S TIER

Invulnerability frames that can be completely beaten out by reactionary D Dragon punch? Instead I'm going to use Yukikaze and it won't beat him.

THEREFORE S TIER, BECAUSE OF HOW BAD HE BEATS ONE OF THE WORST CHARACTERS IN THE GAME

[zeth07]

I keep forgetting to post vids to be judged, i need it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/BoomGorillas?feature=g-all-u

This is a channel from a stream group that streamed a tournament over the weekend. Scroll down to Anime Freak (me) for Blazblue and tell me what's what. Im in 2 or 3 vids so i just linked to list.

I know some things already. Don't drop combos, which i do. J.D is my best friend, or so my inputs allow me to believe, should probably stop that.

I watched the Winners Finals against Tager since it was the first one I saw on the list. Because this was a tournament I'll be more picky. Keep in mind I'm just pointing out the bad stuff you did cause that's the point, by all means you did good things so I'm just nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking so take away whatever you want from it.

My observations,

1st Match / 1st Round

-As you mentioned about the combos, in the 1st round there were some times when you probably could've hit confirmed a little better into a better combo. Or I should say recognizing that the distance isn't right for certain combos and adjusting accordingly to make the most out of the situation.

-Once you had a sizable health lead, you took what I would consider unnecessary risks by doing 3C at mid-screen/full-screen range. The first time you had the heat to RC but Tager was at 50% Health and you probably only lost 5% at that point so it's kinda like what's the point in taking that risk against Tager. The 2nd time was arguably even worst, you still only lost about 5% of your health at that point but he only had probably 5% so there was like NO reason to throw out 3C at that point. You did have 50% to RC again but you didn't even get a chance, and right there the match turned around in Tager's favor. Then the 3rd time you actually won the round with it so that's kinda funny in the end. Now you could say because you had the health lead you could afford that gamble, but against Tager who you can for the most part lame out and who can have huge momentum swings in his favor, it just doesn't seem worth it imo.

1st Match / 2nd Round

-Bumper at the start....in a tournament match I can't possibly recommend doing that but it was really ballsy. I'm pretty sure IAD backwards is free against Tager at the start so there's kinda no reason not to do that and just see what he does instead of taking a risk. That one mistake almost cost you the whole round cause he went on to almost perfect you, but you did a good job of almost running it back.

-The Command Throw>RC combo should've been MUCH better. You practically threw away 50% Heat.

-The following corner combo you got just kinda stopped, I don't know if it was a burst bait or you messed something up, but considering you had only a pixel left I think you should've taken all the damage you could get. If he was going to burst you could at least take that as a "win" for the round considering the circumstances and since you won the previous round. Fortunately he did burst in the next combo you got on him.

1st Match/3rd Round

-When you caught him with the web nail in the corner cause he delayed teched, you probably could've done a better combo. At that point you know what setup you're using so you should figure out the best follow-up combo which I believe starts with 5C but you did 5A. And you sort of dropped it but you mentioned that already.

-The following combo could've been better. You tried to do a dash under combo and imo those are really finicky against Tager so you should've just done the jump back ones.

-Didn't capitalize on one of the CH j.Ds.

-Next combo you dropped, this one is much worst because he was practically dead at that point, so it's incredibly important not to drop combos at the end of rounds cause you're giving them chances to come back. But you went on to win the match after that anyway.

2nd Match / 1st Round

-Dropped combo at the start.

-At one point near the end you had 11 nails and was kind of in the lower end of health and instead of using D Nails to get in you just kinda went in with dash 5A. Considering the circumstances I don't think that was the best idea unless it would've been an absolute punish to something.

2nd Match / 2nd Round

-Dropped combo at the start....again.

-Bad stuff kinda just happened for the rest of the round lol.

3rd Match / 1st Round

-Dropped combo practically at the start after your 1st combo. Just trying to strike the point home with you even though you said it yourself lol.

-One of your corner combos ended up taking him out of the corner which isn't good but it happens. Besides that, with the followup I think it might've been better to take a positional advantage and air dash over to the other side with a mixup there to try and get him back into the corner but that's more or less something to consider.

-This is another important moment imo, near the end you got him with a 5B combo at mid-screen. He had maybe 15-20% Health, you had 100% Heat, 2 Nails, and maybe 50% Health. You went on to do a normal combo that did 2.7k into a knockdown, hopefully you're starting to realize the "problem". Basically you gave him more of a chance to come back. Instead I think you should've done a combo into Daifunka, it wouldn't have done a lot of damage but it would've done more than the one you did AND it would've put him into the corner if not killed him outright. This could've been a huge difference in the match, but fortunately you went on to kill him anyway. But just think about that situation and realize how it could've gone much worst and how it could've been better for you.

3rd Match / 2nd Round

-I guess the FRKZ combo could've been a little better. You started with 5A>5B which could get you 5,320 with it's own heat for Ashura. Instead you got 3,675 into a knockdown with a slight blue beat at the end.

-AHHHHHH you dropped the next FRKZ combo near the end that could've cost you the round, but you ended up getting a trollish Steel Rain in there to win, lol.

Congrats for winning though.

[iw2ma]

I would like you to watch the Grand Finals against a totally different Tager (Jan) and tell me what's what.

This is all need to know here lol.

The Bumper at the start of that one round was actually TK CRASH because i noticed that most of his opening moves would lose to it, such as 2D. Needless to say i failed.....

And ya believe me i haven't been playing CSE very much so my drops are all my fault, at some point i start doing easier combos because im scared of doing my normal stuff, such as the web nail at in the corner. And the FRKZ combos being dropped, every time i failed at one i was so mad at myself. Yes btw that Umbrella super was ultra troll because i saw he was going to do both Sledge moves so i thought i'd be an ass.

Because being flashy is what it's all about.

[zeth07]

Grand Finals vs Jan (Tager)

Match 1 / Round 1:

-Right at the start you got an air to air combo mid-screen into knockdown, which is fine. But maybe consider doing j.623B to push him further into the corner for a positional advantage + approach instead of just getting oki right on top of Tager.

I say that because doing oki on Tager is a crap shoot most of the time, it basically comes down to is the risk worth it when the risk / reward is probably in his favor just because of the silly things he can do with a lucky guess. What happened was you went in with a 5A and he back dashed, so now you were back to neutral anyway. The j.623B would've gave the same relative result except he would've been further in the corner I imagine.

Another choice would've been doing an actually purple command grab on him in the air just to get rid of more of the risk.

This is all more or less something to just think about.

-Again, you could've been a little bit better with the combos where you missed that d.6D. If you're really not sure how far away the wall bounce will be, I think it's better to just run in to confirm with even 5A if you have to instead of risking it trying for the better confirm unless you're ABSOLUTELY sure you know the spacing is good.

-Again you tried a dash under combo against Tager, so back to the same thing I mentioned before about that.

-Kind of an important dropped combo near the end of this round. You had lets say 90% health, he had maybe 20% and you got a corner confirm into FC 5C with 100% Heat. Right when you hit that 5B you probably should've Ashura'd and it probably would've killed him or at least go into a partial air ender with j.623B into Ashura. Instead you went into an air combo or maybe you were trying a relaunch combo and it dropped. Right there could mean winning the round or letting him make a come back OR you having to waste a burst to make sure you win the round. The round could've potentially been over at 65 seconds, instead it took til 38 seconds.

Match 1 / Round 2:

-Near the start you went in with d.2B and got a CH but no confirm. That's relatively HUGE damage that you just lost.

-The next combo you landed it seemed like you were going into a seal combo. It looked like you did a 2 seal combo. Now here's the thing that I think people should think about. If you plan to go for FRKZ like it seemed you were at that point, you should go all or nothing. My reasoning is you're sacrificing damage for seals, so going “in-between” is kinda half assing it. If you want it as a tool in your back pocket you know you'll probably have 4 seals and 50% heat anyway even if you aren't trying for FRKZ. But if you don't plan to use it, you would get more damaging combos by never doing seal combos. In this case, you went in-between. So that's something to consider.

-Following corner combo could've been better. And when you did the nail setup again it seemed like you went into 5B when it didn't work, when you really have almost no choice but to go into 5A for the lowest risk possible if they press buttons.

-Again you did a bit of a bad corner combo. Instead of trying to cross under it seems like you DID adjust and instead do a combo that would take him out of the corner. So make sure you just do those jump back combos instead so you don't have to worry about any of that.

-MAD PROPS for the Astral though, lol good shit doing it in Grand Finals against Jan no less.

Match 2 / Round 1:

-Only thing that really stood out was you went for 2B on oki which I'm sure was to put him into blockstun to FRKZ. Knowing it is Tager, that's almost never a good choice on his wakeup, you probably should've just been lame and backed off til you found a proper chance. AND you had 11 nails.....

Match 2 / Round 2:

-Messed up throw combo, I'll assume that was from lack of much Extend experience as you mentioned.

-You landed a 2B on him in the corner and did a lackluster combo again lol.

-You landed a command throw and right at that moment of the 2nd “hit” you gained the last bit needed for the extra 50%, you could've did the unburstable Daifunka since he did have a burst but considering the heat situation was incredibly close I don't really blame you for just doing a regular combo into it.

Match 2 / Round 3:

-You landed a Gold Burst and only did 938 damage.....lol

Match 3 / Round 1:

-You did d.6D at the start, can't say that's a very smart thing to do but I guess that's just one of those moments when you throw out a little “random”.

-Could use a little bit better hit confirms / combos at some points.

-You threw out a 3C that could've been a little risky even with 100% Heat, since you did still have 6 Nails that you could've used instead. But it wasn't that bad I guess, did end up putting yourself in the corner cause he jumped at that moment.

Match 3 / Round 2:

-You tried TK j.623B but ended up getting 623B coming out but got counter hit. I personally wouldn't recommend doing something that risky at the start for something like Grand Finals and against Tager. The risk is just not worth the reward imo because the chances of it working properly are really slim and it requires a little bit of extra execution. I mean if you land it at the right spacing and get CH it is huge damage but I wouldn't have recommended it in this situation.

-Dropped corner combo, lead to your eventual death lol.

Match 3 / Round 3:

-Need a better confirm off 2D, you just kinda did a bunch of j.AAAAA.

-Another dropped corner combo near the end, you could've easily killed him right there at that point and for your troubles you ended up spending 100% of your heat to go in and got nothing in return.

You played good though obviously, it's just kinda funny to pick apart matches for only the bad stuff.

The only stuff I'd really say would be tighten up the combos and think about some of the minor decisions/situations in the matches that could actually turn out to be major factors in the results of the match. Like one little difference could mean winning a round right then or going on to lose the round and the eventual match, and it could be because of something really stupid and minor.

[iw2ma]

Good stuff, thanks. You pretty much grabbed my thought process on a lot of these situations. Need to work on this. Definitely need to work on hit confirming into better combos and not going for dumb oki options on Tager because THEY DON'T WORK or shouldn't anyway.

I have a secondary goal for most tournament and that is to land an Astral during that tournament at some point. I've done it in all but 3 that i've entered. I had some kind of vendetta against Jan specifically because at a previous tournament we met in he backdashed my Astral attempt and i eventually lost, as i should have, so I HAD to land it at some point.

I wouldn't have even gone for it if i got my astral attempt in a previous match against Chickzama, but it literally wouldn't come out.... i got a bumper and than almost lost to her because of it, that would've sucked.

[YukiBlue]

You havent had the full Bang experience until you lose a game fucking up TK astral. Imo