[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[Arcknight]

The things that made CT better for me regarding Haku: 6A, 5C, 6B

Regarding the burst/guard system: I actually prefered it. I know that must just enrage some people.

It does not need to be balanced to be fun. I actually think CS2, being more balanced, is a lot less fun. That is more related to the direction they took the game(corner push/lockdown). It is pretty /yawn for me in comparison. The funny thing is that these things are irrelevant to other people since these are my opinions and feelings.

I am going back to my post-surgery medicated state. Someone give Mightfo a hug already.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Arcknight

[Sophisticat]

Nigga, GTFO. CT was THE SHIT!

Seriously, though. CT just had someyhing that made the gameplay a bit more fun than it is. The balance was hella aggravating, but the pace of the game was faster, and I think the whole meshed together more fluidly. It's like the mechanics were more chill or something and it was just more fun in that sense.

To be sure, the balance was horrible. I still really liked playing vs. Blood-Gemini's Nu, but aside from him, it was pretty frustrating. All Mac's saying is that outside of what made CT bad there was something there that made the game more fun which the sequels seem to have shed. It'd be cool to have that je ne sais quois element back.

[Star-Demon]

Greetings, HakuMEN.

I think I need to be in this discussion. :P

I've been pushing CT around because it's all I have right now, but I want to make one thing very clear:

CT fucking sucks. Mightfo has the right of it.

despite the shitty burst system, guard libra being retarded, balance being terrible, many character like tager, ragna, bang, litchi having blatantly worse designs, rolls being stupid, retarded chicken blocking, many more normals with hilariously huge recovery like haku 3c and ragna 5c, etc etc etc. None of this shit is even close to made up for just through hakumen's damage and meter gain. The game not only had shitty character balance, but shitty system "balance."

-Bursts were easy to bait and didn't have enough utility.

-Tager's basic design is broken, but besides that - CT Tager isn't as complex as CS Tager, who has some neat resets and is more dangerous. not that that makes much difference as America is somehow free to Tager no matter what. I've had it with constantly fighting Tager in CT - it seems I need to move on to a Tager people can tell me how to beat.

-Bang and Litchi both were bare minimum design in CT - I say I like it, but that doesn't erase the fact Litchi and Bang were very basic characters in CT. I'd be bullshitting if I said CT Litchi was better.

-The guard Libra...I'd say primers are better but TBH I really need to relearn CS. I can't tell you why one is better or worse.

- CT is terribly balanced. Invincibility everywhere, Damage through the roof, zoners are amazing - some characters don't have the fucking tools they later got in CS to deal with shit.

- Rolls fucking suck. Just mashing neutral tech would be better than getting constantly spaced out on a roll.

- Nu is bullshit.

CT is fucked up, and I'm burnt out. I'm waiting for CS:E, because lord knows I want a more flexible Litchi that has a chance against Lambda and Arakune, and won't get easily bodied for making a mistake with Tager, Ragna, won't have to freeze shake Jin, or lose to the invincibility frames that some of the cast has.

If CS:E gets off a corner rape binge, I'd call it a success.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Star-Demon

[toanenadiz]

Stuff

You missed the point of all of the retorts to Mightfo's posts. And every character's archive has a vs Tager match-up thread which should be more than enough to teach you how to beat CT Tager unless you use like Hakumen. CT Tager is a really, really bad character.

[NeoArtisan]

i havent played CT before so i might be completely off with this, but judging from what ppl are saying the whole CT thing seems to be similar to MvC3 (MvC3 is a lot more ridiculous ofcourse). What i mean is that the game had a lot of crazy stuff in it and was rly fast paced which is always fun, but that usually comes at the expense of having bad balance or moves that can be abused too easily. I can see why some ppl might say that CT was more enjoyable in some aspects, but i think that after awhile most ppl get tired of all the ridiculous stuff in the game and would rather have more balance.

[PSOInvictus]

no

[IndigoNovember]

Could I get a bit more input on this:

Making a Fumajin vs using Zanshin on a projectile, when should we be using each one?

I think Zanshin would only be used when the opponent is rushing in with the projectiles or trying to do a crossup while the projectiles are hitting you. Otherwise making a Fumajin seems more useful.

I've pretty much stopped making a Fumajin when people rush in under cover of projectiles due to them running into the Fumajin and being too far away for me to combo (T_T).

Is the risk not worth the reward to cut most projectiles (if think you can)?

[Moblin]

If you can, use 5d on rachel's pumpkin since it seriously fucks her up.

[SansProtocol]

Could I get a bit more input on this:

Is the risk not worth the reward to cut most projectiles (if think you can)?

It's not a question of risk vs. reward, but as you said before, what is needed for the situation. Bang throws nails and then tries to use those to cover his approach, use Hakumen's drive. Need time to build meter on a projectile-dependent character or want to use the Fumajin to box them in and/or give you a way in, cut the projectile. If there's a way to take advantage of a projectile safely, then do it. But otherwise, don't overextend yourself to do something just because your character can.

[IndigoNovember]

Hmm, so I've been trying to burst bait recently. I've been replacing c moves with a or b moves (ie: 2b -> 5a instead of 2c in Corner Loop) and it kinda works. I see a lot of people bursting in between J.2a -> AD J.2a, but I can never read it. Does anybody have any tips on/combos for burst baiting?

[C0R]

Hold back during your combos.

Replace:

j.2a with j.1a

j.2c with j.1c

2c with 1c

Should help.

[BladeOfJustice7]

CSEX changes

via arcadia

・kishuu attribute invul 5F~

・shippu minimal damage 800→1000

・charged 4C have advantage on block?

・midscreen renka can be followed by step 2C or iad j.a j.b

・JD have better damage

previous locktests

・5A 350→400

2A 300→350

2C 950→1000

・cooldown 180F→90F

・JB>J2A

・increased untechable on JB

・6A head invul

・shippu have better startup(can be done after 2A)

・kishuu travels farther

・renka wallbounce

・hotaru takes no primers

・can combo midscreen throws

from board:

otg 2C> j.B>j.2A>dash j.2A>j.C

throw>gurren>dash 2C/iad j.A j.B

紅蓮 - gurren

鬼蹴 - kishuu

閻魔 - enma

降り - falling

空ダ - air dash

蓮華 - renka

use j.B>j.2A careful, depending on char and height this can be not working

kishuu goes through green burst

charged 4C can't be canceled

charged 6C FC>charged 4C>airdash j.2C

throw>enma, could be working with j.B>j.2A ender

j.B>j.2A have strict timing if done >2 repeats

6A CH can be followed by 5C, 6A CH>5C>gurren does not works.

Anyone else as excited as me yet?

Try keeping your posts here people so we don't clutter the cs2 thread with csex info.

Hmm, so I've been trying to burst bait recently. I've been replacing c moves with a or b moves (ie: 2b -> 5a instead of 2c in Corner Loop) and it kinda works. I see a lot of people bursting in between J.2a -> AD J.2a, but I can never read it. Does anybody have any tips on/combos for burst baiting?

What COR said, but also we wary of your opponents health and the potential damage of your combos. So you know where to stop your combos or to know when to counter (if you choose to). With that in mind baiting bursts shouldn't be a problem.

[kotokot]

i like changes, may be i'll switch back to haku, depending on how bad is rachel now=(

"6A CH can be followed by 5C, 6A CH>5C>gurren does not works."

That confuses me. Does that mean that gurren will not combo after 5c at all anymore?

i think 5C hits too low, i think its like after 5C 5C does not works gurren

[BladeOfJustice7]

i think 5C hits too low

I don't quite get what you mean, but could kishuu>enma work? While I doubt it, there must be something that can connect after a 5c from a 6a CH.

[Moblin]

Where can I find videos of CSex hakumen? I looked in the video thread but there were none.

And yeah, that's really weird. Wonder if it got translated wrong.

[BladeOfJustice7]

CSEX only came out today lol, hold your horses. Videos should be out a week from now, but even then they won't be anything special in the first month of a game's release.

[kotokot]

I don't quite get what you mean, but could kishuu>enma work? While I doubt it, there must be something that can connect after a 5c from a 6a CH.

nevermind, i dont know why, but i thought that 5c 5c gurren does not works now)

[Moblin]

oh, ok >.> lol. I can wait. So we've probably got another 6 months at least with CS2 here in America anyways.

It's almost painful to theory craft like this when it's not coming out soon.

[Spark]

2ish months

[mjting]

Haku was dealing 8k damage so I read? any confirmations to this? I know he can reach 7k plus in cs2 but 8k for a "full combo"?

[SansProtocol]

Haku was dealing 8k damage so I read? any confirmations to this? I know he can reach 7k plus in cs2 but 8k for a "full combo"?

Considering the fact that his meter gain is quite impressive with the reduced cooldown and the slight minimum damage on Shippu increase, it's probably a lot easier to build enough meter to use Shippu as an ender while using more specials to get better damage.

[Fluck]

I'm sure it's cause of buffs to his moves' damage and proration and I think his combo rating might have gone up.

[mjting]

I am also intrigued at the lol tier list. haku at top? interesting.

[Sophisticat]

Stunedge confirmed my thoughts in that it's mostly his increased meter gain that benefits Haku. That's really his only issue in CS2 since it limits his options/damage potential, and we got extra goodies on top of that. Now we can mash Hotaru again like in CS1. I think I'll be getting serious about Haku again. :D

The post:

Less cool-off time after using special makes him has tons of meter all the time

mid-screen combo buff

anti-air 6A buff, JD buff

full combo does like 8k all the time (less proration in many moves I guess)

[zdravkelja]

Good stuff, I could be back also. Much more fun without managing the meter so strictly