[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[mAc Chaos]

8k combos off how many stars is the question. Haku could always get 8k if he blew like 8 stars or whatever.

I don't want him to be getting that much damage off stuff like 2A and 4 stars or something though... Makoto Jr.

[Arcknight]

8k combos off how many stars is the question. Haku could always get 8k if he blew like 8 stars or whatever.

I don't want him to be getting that much damage off stuff like 2A and 4 stars or something though... Makoto Jr.

Come on Mac you know you want it to be true.

I somehow missed the point of throw being special cancelable again. That is boss!

[BladeOfJustice7]

I miss having reliable meter

[mjting]

Nah I wouldn't buy the 8k stuff without knowing what was done or how many stars were used until I see it. Sure sounds like a lot of meter blown.

Edited October 8, 2011 by mjting

[itsme]

Just checked out the bbs and saw this:

夢幻活用法

端に追いやって前投げ>6A>6Cを先行入力の最速でやると6Cの丁度良いみたいで6C>夢幻>蓮華が可能

8100dmオーバー

投げる時に7.5本もあればゲージが溜まるはず

Mugen usages

Take your opponent to the corner and do Forward Grab>6A>6C as fast as you can into Mugen and you can follow it up with Renka

8100 damage+

When you do the grab, 7.5 meter should be enough to land 8 mags.

So now I'm assuming the 8k+ deal is from Mugen talk. Not really surprised about it too.

[Fluck]

Just checked out the bbs and saw this:

So now I'm assuming the 8k+ deal is from Mugen talk. Not really surprised about it too.

stunedge's post: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?12549-Japanese-BBCSEX-Tier-List-(OFFICIAL)&p=1157022&viewfull=1#post1157022

Consider that 5C Renka Kishuu 6C is already 6000+ in CS2. If rumours of a buff in his character combo rating or buffs in individual move proration are true, he can easily do 7-8k off the same combo.

[mjting]

Just checked out the bbs and saw this:

So now I'm assuming the 8k+ deal is from Mugen talk. Not really surprised about it too.

Yeah I expected it to be either a shippu ender or something out of mugen. There was no CONFIRMED combo rating increase, so the "OMG HAKUMAN IS GOD TIER" should stop. He can already do that in cs2.

[Moblin]

stunedge's post: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?12549-Japanese-BBCSEX-Tier-List-(OFFICIAL)&p=1157022&viewfull=1#post1157022

Consider that 5C Renka Kishuu 6C is already 6000+ in CS2. If rumours of a buff in his character combo rating or buffs in individual move proration are true, he can easily do 7-8k off the same combo.

pretty sure I do that combo all the time and it doesn't do more than 5.3k. Unless you add in the Hotaru reset, which is around 7k.

But I see what you mean. I agree that Hakumen needs more power in general, I've been really jealous of all the characters that can get more damage for Hakumen in general without spending any meter like he has to.

On the changes topic, the gatling from j.b to j.2a is pretty self-explanatory. They're replacing the old staircase combo with something that gives more corner carry and fits with the rest of his BnB routes. Instead of the regular staircase, which is: (whatever starter to jump cancel) j.a ---> j.b --- double jump cancel ---> j.2a ----> j.c

It'll look like: 5a (or whatever starter to jump) ---> j.a --- j.b ---> gatling j.2a ---> AD j.2a ---> j.C

Plus more untechable time on j.b is nice. You could do tons of stuff with that, probably.

Of course, I could be wrong on all of what I just posted. Like 40 vids of Extend out so far and not a single Hakumen

Edited October 9, 2011 by Moblin

[Schneider-X]

some footage of CSE hakumen was posted by pktazn, first match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht8am_PXVWM

Not sure if a new CSE video thread should be created or not so I just posted it here.

Seems kishuu's distance was indeed increased and the 90 frame meter cooldown is crazy. The corner combo off of renka(1) > kishuu > 6C gave back 2 whole stars and it wasn't finished.

Edited October 9, 2011 by Schneider-X

[Arcknight]

That video showed Renka bouncing them rather high in the corner. I hope that does not present a potential problem. The 2C still managed to connect fine but it looks like it could easily be missed. It might be nothing.

[Dream Maker]

From what I know and what I could try there aren't all that much new changes in proration. But some moves got a bit of damage increase here and there, adding that to new combos possibilities with throw cancel, midscreen renka, 6A and jB changes Hakumen indeed got an overall damage increase.

But honestly I see no way how basic combo from 5C renka, kishu, can do 8000+ (unless maybe you spend a lot of meter with hotaru restets and shippu finisher) although I believe you could easily get around 6000 with an optimal combo.

[Fluck]

From what I know and what I could try there aren't all that much new changes in proration. But some moves got a bit of damage increase here and there, adding that to new combos possibilities with throw cancel, midscreen renka, 6A and jB changes Hakumen indeed got an overall damage increase.

But honestly I see no way how basic combo from 5C renka, kishu, can do 8000+ (unless maybe you spend a lot of meter with hotaru restets and shippu finisher) although I believe you could easily get around 6000 with an optimal combo.

Yeah, now that more info is out and confirmed, it does seem like you still cap at 6000+. For the record, 5C Renka Kishuu is 5900+ in CS2 with 2 loops. I guess stunedge exaggerated somewhat due to how strong Hakumen is perceived at the moment.

[IndigoNovember]

Yeah, now that more info is out and confirmed, it does seem like you still cap at 6000+. For the record, 5C Renka Kishuu is 5900+ in CS2 with 2 loops. I guess stunedge exaggerated somewhat due to how strong Hakumen is perceived at the moment.

For the record you can hit 6134 if you get a Level 2 charge 6c off.

New changes are interesting. I look forward to seeing how much/little Hakumen's gameplan changes from CSII.

[mAc Chaos]

Wouldn't it just be 5C > Renka now, no Kishuu? Seemed that way from that one corner combo.

[Fluck]

Thanks for the correction, IndigoNovember.

Renka's P2 is rumoured to have been further nerfed to 55 from BBS. Even if it wasn't, inserting a 65 proration so early in the combo will kill your damage, so Kishuu is more optimal.

[kotokot]

interesting combo from boards

(5C>)renka(1)>kishuu>2C>JB>J2A>airdash>JA>JB>2C>J2A>J2A>JC(>shippu)

does works on tager and ragna, 4-5k damage.

midscreen bnb(throw combos)

(throw>)renka(1)>kishuu>2C>JB>J2A>airdash>J2A>JC 3050 with throw

(throw>)renka(1)>gurren>iad>JB>JA>2C>J2A>airdash>J2A>JC 3070 with throw

Edited October 10, 2011 by kotokot

[Sophisticat]

'k, for those who said he wouldn't be S-tier, I present these vids for discussion:

Rejoice, fellow Hakumen. CSEX version is looking like a mo'fuking boss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVYgU64n-gU#t=8m30s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v5B4JFDyCI First match

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4-3voavsMA All matches

On to the analysis.

- Extra meter is DELICIOUSNESS.

- Combo off throw for the win.

- 4c -> Enma -> etc. is now possible at a larger distance because of kishuu distance inscrease.

- New j.B has several applications:

1) As a combo tool. It allows to extend combos and increase carry. Several combos shown in the vids take advantage of this.

2) IAD -> j.A -> j.B can now just be IAD -> j.B -> 5a -> etc. The increase in untechable time allows this to be possible so this combo just got a hell of a lot easier. Hell yeah.

- New 6A also has some useful stuff:

1) As an AA. A combo I saw was something like 6a -> Gurren -> hop 5a -> 5b -> sj.B -> j.2a -> etc.

2) As a combo tool. In the corner, [stuff] -> Renka(K) -> 6c -> 6a -> loops. It permits omitting hop for 6a instead to get closer.

- Several new combos which I forget. I presume the guy's using them now since we have more meter to play with so it's ok to spend a bit more.

I think I like this new Hakumen. :bad:

Edited October 10, 2011 by Sophisticat

[bungcalero]

from my noob point of view damn his meter is overflowing so much meter recovery from his combos landing a shippu ender just got more common. Kisshu is so damn fast now to think it's cancelable to throw/specials more mix-up options? I Feel hakumen became even more aggressive now, so much meter gain. I seen j.B and 6A thrown in into most of his bnb once j.B hits so many options, 6A wall bounces?. His corner carry just got longer thanks to j.B?

[Schneider-X]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVYgU64n-gU#t=8m30s

Based on 10:30 from this video, it looks like gurren has same move porration

The new j.B will make NH hotaru combos much easier now among many other things and the 6A corner bounding is nice change for our corner combos, however I hope it doesn't inhibit our ability to do 2 corner loops.

[zdravkelja]

So much meter

[Arcknight]

That new 6A is Boss. The wall-bounce is icing on the already delicious cake. I also really enjoyed seeing one of the players finish up an air-combo, that was low, by using j.2A>j.B>j.2A>j.C. Pretty fantastic.

The Stuff>j.B>5A>Stuff looks really amazing as well.

Could you always special cancel his air-throw? I have never seen air-throw>Hotaru done before.

Edited October 10, 2011 by Arcknight

[dioxideUniversa]

Could you always special cancel his air-throw? I have never seen air-throw>Hotaru done before.

Air throw -> Tsubaki was usually the go to for corner air throw in CS2.

[Arcknight]

Air throw -> Tsubaki was usually the go to for corner air throw in CS2.

Oh thank you. Now that you mention that I do vaguely recall that being possible.

[itsme]

I couldn't help grinning every time something new came up, especially the return of the special cancelable grab. One thing I love about the new jB property is that it adds stability to the usual combo by "adjusting" the opponent's to the right height to add the jC ender, something that really held back the full corner carry of Hakumen in CS1/2. All in all I love the improvements.

[mjting]

Thank you very much for the vids! I noticed that his combo damage is still more or less the same, so this definitely shoots down those 3 star 8k rumours. Also, the reason why his combos seem to be stronger at wall is because of the 6a usage instead of a hop to move forward. Renka bounces REALLY high in the corner, which is a slight concern, but for me, I don't really use it that much as I tend to follow up with kishuu after renka first hit. I'm thinking of following it up with 6a when it does bounce?

also, I've been practicing the old gurren combo off of 3c, the one with hop>5a>ja>jb>Jcancel>j2a>jc because the 6a combo is gone. but so far, the 5a>5b>jb>j2a>airdash>j2a>jc looks stable enough and simple to do. Excellent. hop>5a>j2a>airdash>jb>j2a seems to be good too! (sorry I don't really do the more flashy combos)

Haku definitely looks beastly, and is more COMPLETE now, but I don't see him becoming S-tier. Character design and concept just won't allow it imho. So I hope that stuffs any oncoming "OMG TOP TIERZZ TIME TO USE" bandwagon.

Edited October 11, 2011 by mjting