[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[WolfCrimson]

One does not convert players from Guilty Gear, because it's too awesome to NOT play. One simply gives friends Blazblue as an alternative game to play along with Guilty Gear.

Words of wisdom.

I'm gonna sig this, if you don't mind.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Go right ahead good sir, though I doubt all of it will fit into a sig.

[WolfCrimson]

Go right ahead good sir, though I doubt all of it will fit into a sig.

Dammit, it doesn't. But if I cut corners...

Edit: FUCK! Even when I reduced it to just this: "One does not convert players from GG, because it's too awesome to NOT play. One simply gives friends alternative games to play along with GG." It still won't fit. Dustloop = poverty FG forum (but it's still the best)

Edited November 6, 2012 by WolfCrimson

[CupofT]

Should make a meme with that quote.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Dammit, it doesn't. But if I cut corners...

Edit: FUCK! Even when I reduced it to just this: "One does not convert players from GG, because it's too awesome to NOT play. One simply gives friends alternative games to play along with GG." It still won't fit. Dustloop = poverty FG forum (but it's still the best)

Just keep the first sentence, or take a screenshot of it and then use it as a sig picture. There are many options my friend, in the world of sigs

Should make a meme with that quote.

What really? I swear to god, it's like you have a GG convo radar on dustloop, CupofT.

[mAc Chaos]

I never got into GG. I only saw people playing it in high school, where they said it was the playstation version of Smash Bros, and it just looked too weird for me to get into. All the character designs were too strange. I never clicked with any of them. I like how Justice looks though.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Try the game's demo, and try all the characters. For you personally try out Johnny and Ky most of all. GG is a really fun game, and there is a character for everyone, which isn't so much the case (yet) in BB, from my view.

Without GG, I would've never heard of or played BB to be honest with you. Hakumen was the closest thing to Ky for me personally.

[mAc Chaos]

Ky? I thought he was supposed to be like Jin. I figured Baiken would be the Haku choice aside from Johnny.

[dioxideUniversa]

should've hotaru'd instead, mac

[BladeOfJustice7]

Ky? I thought he was supposed to be like Jin. I figured Baiken would be the Haku choice aside from Johnny.

Ky doesn't play like JIn, in my opinion. Which is why i gravitated towards Hakumen, just values and very spacing/footsie oriented in playing style. With minimal mixup/pressure tools compared to the rest of the cast.

And no, I haven't seen a baiken player that has gravitated towards hakumen. Though Chin, for instance used to be a top Johnny player in GG.

[Wander]

Though Chin, for instance used to be a top Johnny player in GG.

I never played GG before, but i will try Johnny because of his influence. Plus, my name is the same as that character

[WolfCrimson]

Edit: Moved to CP thread.

Edited November 7, 2012 by WolfCrimson

[BladeOfJustice7]

I never played GG before, but i will try Johnny because of his influence. Plus, my name is the same as that character

needz moar paedophilia though.

Yo guys there's a few posts about CP Haku in the JBBS (since a loketest is going on right now). I'll post it here, and if they get translated, the important info should get posted in the Chrono Phantasma thread.

Go post that in the CP changes thread.

[WolfCrimson]

OKey dokey.

[mAc Chaos]

Looks like there's some good Haku stuff in the latest loketest info. THROWS

[BladeOfJustice7]

Already ahead of you:

Posts from Haku JBBS:

174 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 11:59:28 ID:tO/pywhs0

D成立だけで珠が溜まるとか、地味に嬉しいな

D giving meter simply on a succesful catch makes me pretty happy

175 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 13:46:21 ID:AZHZWBIU0

ロケテまとめしてた時にちょうど良くロケテきたな

日曜日休みだし行ってみるか

Great timing, with a loctest just as we finish compiling the results of the last one. I have Sunday off so I might as well go check it out.

176 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 14:05:10 ID:0NehLsO.0

>>174

EXでもそれは同じじゃないか？と思ったが、D技で攻撃を受けただけでも、ってことなのね。

当身成立っていうのは少し違うのかなって気持ちはする。もともと受けただけで何か効果があるっ て

時点で珍しいから、なんとなく言い方がややこしくあるね。

Wasn't it the same in EX? Is what I thought, but what you're saying is that catching an attack with a D move is the only condition, right? It feels like that's slightly different from triggering the counter. It's pretty rare for there be an effect just for catching a move, so wording for this is pretty complex.

177 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 14:18:24 ID:YDE59CGo0

>>176

ＥＸだと切ってた飛び道具も今回は当身で取っていく感じかな

νのＤＤを当身で取って３珠なんて嬉しい

I wonder if that means we'll be catching projectiles that we'd be cutting in EX instead.

If we could get something like 3 orbs for catching Nu's DD I'd be overjoyed.

178 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 14:23:36 ID:/ezWswxU0

とは言っても封魔陣を出しても少しはゲージが増えるし有利に立ち回れるから、どちらかのみとは 言えないね

Even so, getting out a projectile barrier gives a little meter too and improves our stage control, so we probably won't be strictly using just one over the other.

179 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 15:04:02 ID:rRkp1w82O

5Dから閻魔は本当にあるみたい、ただし当て身してからA押すのじゃ無理っぽい。D押しっぱなしの 持続延長 も事実みたい。

6B地上ヒットじゃ2Aでも拾えなかった。

It seems like 5D > Enma really works, but it's too late if you press A after the catch. D staying out longer if you hold it also seems to be in. On ground hit 6B, not even 2A worked for pickup.

180 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 15:51:52 ID:ONpjfCzc0

切るのは辛いけど見てから当身出来るレベルの飛び道具は撃ってこなくなるな

People will probably stop using projectiles that are hard to cut, but still easily D'd on reaction.

181 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 16:02:42 ID:74MMwS3U0

飛び道具当て身してもゲージ増えるんか

打撃のみだと思ってた

Do we gain meter even for catching projectiles?

I thought it was just melee hits.

182 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 16:03:32 ID:rRkp1w82O

OD中に雪風の反撃部分が多段ヒット(威力増加)、疾風の方は変化はし。

4C>疾風で3500くらい出た。

前投げ>CT>ディレイ2C>jc>J2A>jc>J2C>アギトで3000ほどでした。

In OD, Yukikaze becomes multi-hit (damage increase). No change to Shippu.

4C>Shippu did about 3500.

Forward throw> CT > delay 2C > jc > J2A > jc > J2C > Agito did around 3000.

183 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 16:18:33 ID:Za.NpOMYO

さすがに火力はあるんだろうな…

他のキャラと火力同じとかだったら泣く

That's some pretty high damage...

If the other characters also do about the same damage I'm gonna cry.

184 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 16:24:08 ID:rRkp1w82O

どうでもいいが、OD雪風の見た目は胴抜き一閃の後に遅れてズバズバっと斬撃のエフェクトが出 て超格好いい 。ダメージは4000ほどでした。

This is sort of whatever, but for OD Yukikaze visuals, he does the horizontal pass through slash, there's some delay, and then extra slashing effects come out, and it looks super cool. Damage is around 4000.

185 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 16:25:58 ID:.YUYCgpo0

通常時とod時のクールダウンはどうですか？

How do the regular and OD cooldowns compare?

186 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 17:00:22 ID:dIHqfNyI0

ロケテってどこでやってるんですか？いきたいです<(_ _)>

3ゲージで3000でるなら今作完全に投げキャラですね

Where is the loctest being held? I want to go <(_ _)>

If we can get 3000 from 3 orbs, he's going to be practically a grapple character this time around.

187 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 17:30:48 ID:V/1lu1SE0

前回だけども、6投げ>5C>紅蓮>3Cで2400くらいでてたから火力ののびしろはあると思 うんだけど

どうなるでしょうね

Even in EX, forward throw > 5C > Gurren > 3C did about 2400, so i think there's even more room for growth. Although hm, I wonder how it's going to go.

188 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 19:01:24 ID:CoNIvtT.0

もうでてるか知らんけど一応

残鉄と椿祈に同技補正が付いてた

夢幻どうすっかね…

I don't know if it's already been mentioned, but

Zantetsu and Tsubaki now have repeat proration.

What's going to happen to Mugen...

189 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 19:11:47 ID:Za.NpOMYO

夢幻中は同技無いんじゃなかったか

Isn't there no repeat proration during Mugen?

190 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 19:15:19 ID:fY6dd1TA0

5Dキャンセル閻魔は

相手が当身に触れた攻撃がDDとか発生の早い技でキャンセル可能だと

余裕でこっちがカウンターもらう。つまり昇竜キャラに振ｒｙ

次のロケテでどうなっていることやら。

For 5D cancel to Enma,

if the move caught is a DD or a move cancelable into something with a fast startup, they can easily get a counterhit on us. To sum it up, on dp characters we shouldn't (etc etc). Wonder how the next loctest is going to turn out.

191 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 19:29:36 ID:0NehLsO.0

それは当身見てから昇竜打てるかどうかって話で、

当然無理な話ですよね。

That's only if they can dp on reaction after seeing the catch trigger. Isn't that a non-issue?

192 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 19:44:28 ID:Za.NpOMYO

当身取られたらヒットストップかかるはずなのになんでだろ

Hitstop should be applied if we get a catch, so I wonder why that happens

193 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 19:49:00 ID:cA5U7l/UO

>>182

情報サンクス

自分も明日行くつもりだから参考にします

Thanks for the info

I'm planning to go myself tomorrow, so it was a good reference

194 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 19:54:59 ID:ONpjfCzc0

夢幻中にまで3珠技に同技ついてたら夢幻が死に技になるだろ

If 3 orb specials have repeat proration even in Mugen, it would just be a dead super.

195 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 20:42:10 ID:CUsK4FDk0

だから死んだんだろう

OD使えよってことじゃね

ODのせいでお祭りクソゲーになりそうだな

Isn't it already dead?

I think this is just their way of saying "Use OD"

Although it feels like OD is going to make this a terrible, unbalanced game

196 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 20:42:26 ID:CoNIvtT.0

>>189

>>194

あぁごめん、言葉が足りんかった

「夢幻中」に同技補正がかかった

真っ先に夢幻コン試したからこれだけはマジ

夢幻…どうすっかね…

Ah, sorry, I didn't say enough.

During Mugen, repeat proration was applied

The first thing I tried was Mugen combos, so I'm absolutely sure about this.

Mugen...what are we supposed to do with this...

197 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 20:53:22 ID:Za.NpOMYO

じゃあ全技同技ってことか

いや閻魔は同技なかったんだっけ

So pretty much repeat proration on everything then?

Oh wait, did Enma not have any?

198 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 21:07:04 ID:IaMAMLqY0

通常椿は同技なかった感じです

間違えてたらごめんなさい

これからやらります

何か調べてほしいことありますか？

I feel like normals and Tsubaki didn't have it.

Sorry if I'm wrong.

I'll be able to test shortly.

Is there anything you'd like me to check?

199 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 21:17:30 ID:V/1lu1SE0

とりあえず当て身反撃部分がガード可能のままなのか

あとは3C通常ガード後の不利Fかな

言い出せばロケテでまずそうだったもの全部になるから困る

とりあえず上記ふたつをお願いしたい

For starters, if the counterhit portion of our counters are still blockable.

And 3C - frames on normal block I suppose.

If I start listing, it'll end up being everything that's been changed so far, so I guess I'll trouble you with just the 2 things above for now.

200 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 21:33:27 ID:wDh9bp.g0

OD中に同技消えたら本当にOD夢幻キャラになっちまうぞ…

If there's no repeat proration during OD, it feels like he's going to end up becoming an OD Mugen character...

201 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 21:43:36 ID:6/Fx55lc0

夢幻に同技補正ってどういうことなの…８珠消費ぐらい夢をみさせてくれよ

What are they thinking applying repeat proration to Mugen? With an 8 orb cost, at least let us dream a little

202 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 22:25:49 ID:xCO9.pV20

当身反撃部分の件ですが調べられませんでしたすみません、3cはＥＸのと比べてさらに-4、5Fぐらいだと思います。直ｶﾞなら先端であててもラグナのダッシュ5Bで確反もらいそうな 感じです曖 昧ですみません

Sorry, I wasn't able to test the blockability of counters. Compared to EX, I think 3C was roughly an additional -4,5F. On instant block, it felt like Ragna was able to get a counter dash 5B in, even when hitting with the tip of 3C. Sorry for being so vague.

203 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 22:37:50 ID:CUsK4FDk0

夢がないロマンがない

No dreams, no romance

204 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 22:59:56 ID:CUsK4FDk0

3C弱くなりすぎじゃ

Isn't 3C nerfed too much?

205 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 23:18:15 ID:V/1lu1SE0

乙です。こりゃ-9のまま臭いな

CSは通常ヒットで追い討ちできるから-9でも良かったんだがこれじゃ割にあわん

2Bも重たいままならインファイター捌くのマジでどうしよ

Thanks for taking the trouble. Sounds like it's still -9

In CS you could follow up with normals so -9 was fine, but the risk/returns don't match like this.

If 2B remains slow, what are we supposed to do about infighters...

206 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 23:31:59 ID:i.iXnjoA0

CSってハクメン同キャラだと3Cをギリガしないと3C確定しなかったような

-9Fだったっけ？

今は-4Fだからギリがされても-7Fでラグナ5Bがギリギリ確定しないフレームだけど

In the CS Hakumen mirror match, I sort of remember needing to instant guard 3C to ensure a 3C punish.

Was it really -9F?

It's currently -4F, so even on instant block it's only -7F, making it just barely unpunishable by Ragna 5B.

207 ：名無しさん：2012/11/07(水) 23:44:28 ID:V/1lu1SE0

一応CSムック確認し直したけど発生9の通常ガードで-9だね

通常ヒットで追い討ち復活してないかなぁ

I checked with the CS mook, and it looks to be 9F startup and -9 on normal guard

I wonder if they'll give us back the normal move followups

208 ：名無しさん：2012/11/08(木) 00:10:54 ID:rORQF3DQO

今日ロケテ行ってきました

珠がなきゃコンボできないのでロケテで調べるのも一苦労で、あまり調べられなかったですが気付 いたことを書 いていきます

まずは、ほとんど>>160 >>166 >>167 >>168辺りにあるとおりでした

Went to the loctest today.

Since we need orbs to combo it was really hard to do tests. I couldn't really learn that much, but here's what I noticed:

First of all, it was mostly as >>160 >>166 >>167 >>168 said.

209 ：名無しさん：2012/11/08(木) 00:56:28 ID:rORQF3DQO

>>208の続き

通常技周りはほとんどでてるからダメージ関連メイン

Continued from >>208

Information about normals is already mostly out, so I focused mainly on damage

・全体的にヒットストップが少なくなっているので、5Aがchしたときなど確認が難しく

・5D(他も？)は相手が着地寸前に技を当てると着地ガード可能

・JD>5Aが繋がる、適当にエリアルアギト〆2500ぐらい

・蓮華1>ct>5Cが繋がる、ダメージは覚えてない

・夢幻中は蓮華も残鉄も椿折も同技

・6Bは地上通常ヒット追撃不可

・OD中雪風>疾風で約5000ダメージ

・5C>疾風で約4100、6C>疾風は約4500

・JB空中chから紅蓮が繋がる

・椿折>火蛍>J2C>2C>JB>J2A>J2C>アギトで約5000(2C>JB>J2A >J2C>ア ギトは以降2C～アギトと省略する)

・残鉄>2C～アギトで約3500

・6投げ>ct>2C～アギトで約3200

・4投げ>紅蓮からはステップ5Aでは拾えない、鬼蹴>2C～アギトで約2500

・2B>蓮華鬼蹴>2C～アギトは2000ぐらいしか減らない

・5C>鬼蹴閻魔>J2C>2C～アギトで3500ぐらい？

・5C>蓮華鬼蹴>2C～アギトは3500いかなかったような

・疾風は速いまま

・勘違いじゃなかったらOD>夢幻は終わってからも8珠のままだった

・ステップ、バックステップの全体Fが短縮化、キャンセルタイミングが減った(速くなったかは 分からない) 、連続でステップすると凄い速度でハクメンが移動する。バクステ連打を見たら間違いなく笑うぐ らい速い

・Overall hitstop is reduced, so it's hard to confirm things like 5A ch

・ If you 5D (Others too?) a move right before the opponent lands, they can guard it after hitting the ground.

・JD>5A connects, doing an arbitrary aerial + Agito finish combo yielded around 2500

・Renka(1)>CT>5C connects, don't remember damage

・In Mugen, Renka/Zantetsu/Tsubaki all have repeat proration

・6B can't be followed up on normal ground hit.

・In OD, Yukikaze>Shippu did around 5000 damage

・5C>Shippu does around 4100, 6C>Shippu around 4500

・JB air ch connects into Gurren

・Tsubaki>Hotaru>J2C>2C>JB>J2A>J2C>Agito does around 5000 (2C>JB>J2A>J2C>Agito will be abbreviated as 2C~Agito in later mentions)

・Zantetsu>2C~Agito does around 3500

・Forward throw>CT>2C~Agito does around 3200

・Back throw>Gurren doesn't connect into hop 5A, Kishuu>2C~Agito does around 2500

・2B>Renka>Kisshu>2C~Agito only does around 2000

・5C>Kishuu>Enma>J2C>2C~Agito does around 3500?

・5C>Renka>Kishuu>2C~Agito might've done a little under 3500

・Shippu is still fast

・If I didn't make some sort of mistake, OD>Mugen left you with 8 orbs even after it ended

・Forward/back hop overall frames shortened, cancel frames shortened (don't know if they got moved earlier). Doing consecutive hops makes Hakumen move at an incredible speed. If you see a Hakumen mashing backdash it's definitely fast enough to make you laugh.

まとめとしては、蓮華鬼蹴2Cのパーツは以前ほどダメージが伸びないが閻魔>J2Cのパーツは 意外と伸びる ので消費やクールダウン的に優秀で主力になりそう

6投げから2珠で結構ダメージとれるから6投げも主力

椿折>火蛍も端なら5000、中央は4000ぐらいいけるから相変わらず中段として使える。さ らに椿折はコ ンボの〆に使うと結構減るから殺しきれそうなら〆にも使える。下段は2B始動が安い、蓮華始動 も前ほど減ら ないが2B始動よりは減る

切り返し面では火蛍は隙がでかいからそうそう使えないがヒットしたら空ダJ2A>2Cからコン ボにいける。 雪風は見てから5Aして取られるぐらいには持続あるし強いまま、2D5Dは単発1800で5D はA押しっぱ でその場閻魔出してくれるけど当身成立確認からA押しっぱは間に合わない、6Dは発生ゴミでダ メージ140 0の追撃可、JDは単発2000(？)追撃可になってる

In conclusion, Renka>Kishuu>2C combo parts don't yield as much damage as before, but Enma>J2C parts are surprisingly damaging. Consequently, they offer good return for cost/cooldown and seem like they'll become a staple.

From forward throw, we can get pretty good damage with 2 orbs so that will also be a main move.

Tsubaki>Hotari also goes into about 5000 in corner, 4000 midscreen, so we can keep using it as an overhead. Additionally, Tsubaki is pretty damaging as a combo ender, so we can use it as a finisher if it looks like it might kill.

For lows, 2B is a bad starter, and while Gurren starter isn't as good as before it's still better than 2B.

For changing the flow of a match, Hotari leaves you pretty vunerable so you can't just throw it out, but if you hit with it you can do airdash J2A>2C into combo.

Yukikaze lasts long enough to catch a 5A thrown after seeing the super flash, and is still strong.

2D/5D does about 1800 alone, and if you hold A for 5D a stationary Enma comes out. Pressing A after confirming 5D is too late though.

6D startup speed is garbage, does about 1400 and can be followed up

JD does 2000 (?) alone, can be followed up.

210 ：名無しさん：2012/11/08(木) 01:04:22 ID:1qI4AS5.0

>>209

まとめありがたやありがたや。

Thanks for compiling everything.

211 ：名無しさん：2012/11/08(木) 01:14:08 ID:wG8XWgC60

アギトがカウンターしたときバウンドしてたきがするんだけど、

受身取れなかったのか取らなかったのかわからない。

後はアギトに体属性あったりしないかな、カルル6Aに勝った様な場面あった。

I get the feeling Agito caused a bounce on counterhit,

but I'm not sure if it was because they couldn't tech or because they didn't tech.

Also, I think Agito might have no body attribute hitbox, because it sometimes beat out Carl's 6A

212 ：名無しさん：2012/11/08(木) 01:20:54 ID:rORQF3DQO

>>209だけど、明日というか今日もロケテ行くから誰か調べてほしいこと書いてくれると助かる

This is >>209. I'm also going to the loctest tomorrow (or today rather), so if there's something you'd like me to check please post it.

213 ：名無しさん：2012/11/08(木) 01:27:52 ID:a7OkJVCQ0

>>212

バクステに無敵あるかどうか

2Cに頭無敵あるかどうか

ctはクールタイムどうなってるか

ってかクールタイムどうなってる？

>>212

Does backstep have invincibility?

Does 2C have head invulnerability?

What does CT do to cooldown time?

Or rather, what's going on with cooldown times?

214 ：名無しさん：2012/11/08(木) 01:33:30 ID:0M3nO/x.0

2珠以上消費でも、クールダウん時間はいつも通りか、ちょっと短い

しかも、クールダウン中もゲージが少しずつ増加する

そもそも、ゲージ増加速度がすっごく微妙だけど、早くなってる希ガス

Even after using 2 orbs or more, cooldown time is about the same, or maybe even slightly shorter

Plus, meter increases ever so slightly even during cooldown

Meter increase speed is sort of hard to check to begin with, but I feel like it's gotten faster.

215 ：名無しさん：2012/11/08(木) 01:40:30 ID:5SSYi1HE0

ODって使った時に暗転するみたいだけど全体動作はどれくらいなのかねぇ

短かったらサガットのアングリーみたいに暗転止め→見てから割り込み、とか出来そうだけど

On OD activation there's something similar to a super flash, but I wonder how long the entire activation takes.

If it's short, we can do something like Sagat's Angry where we can wait for super flash to end, look at the situation, and then interrupt the opponent accordingly.

216 ：名無しさん：2012/11/08(木) 01:49:53 ID:qbvu9Bkw0

>>209

蓮華１＞ct＞5Cが繋がるの？

それとも蓮華１段キャンセル鬼蹴してct？

>>209

Renka(1)>CT>5C connects?

Or is it Renka(1) cancel Kishuu > CT?

217 ：名無しさん：2012/11/08(木) 01:55:23 ID:1qI4AS5.0

>>216

ハクメンは必殺技を必殺技キャンセル出来るのを忘れてない？ctも必殺技扱いみたいだしたぶん 出来るんだと 思うけど。

>>216

Have you forgotten that Hakumen's specials are special cancelable? CT seems to be treated as a special, so I think it should work.

Good job wolf for getting this info translated.

Let's hear everyone thoughts, I'm somewhat ambivalent towards the changes. Nice super damage buffs, and Shippu is still a fairly strong reversal. But I honestly don't see what is the point of Mugen lol, though my theory about it and Kishin (the name of his OD) were correct.

[mAc Chaos]

Never was a point to Mugen. Main takeaway is Tsubaki can do 5k still and throw does some damage at least. Both take a lot of stars though. Back to being one-chance man.

Also seeing CT a lot midcombo. 6B still useless as far as comboing goes.

Edited November 8, 2012 by mAc Chaos

[BladeOfJustice7]

2/3 of the time I do a 6b it's on CH anyways. And they (indirectly) said you could follow up 6b on CH.

[WolfCrimson]

@Blade: The credit goes to hakumiru for translating, I only copy pasted.

Haku's damage seems OK. I don't like how bad 6D is now. Maybe for Mugen we need to do full proper combos instead of just (5c>renka>zantetsu>kishu)xN

[BladeOfJustice7]

Cool Story, now let's make so that Blood Kain combos cause ALL of Ragna's drive moves to have repeat proration

[dioxideUniversa]

6D being bad seems silly while simultaneously making j.D good.

[WolfCrimson]

Cool Story, now let's make so that Blood Kain combos cause ALL of Ragna's drive moves to have repeat proration

All BK specials have repeat proration. The second hit of 5D has repeat proration as well. And his BK 2D and jD have horrible p2, so it's better to avoid them.

Edited November 8, 2012 by WolfCrimson

[BladeOfJustice7]

I'm aware of that repeat proration, but I was also including moves like 6/jd when I said that.

[Warhound]

Maybe I'm just inept at reading but, how is our corner damage looking? Having crap mid-screen damage isn't anything new, but how much damage can we do in the corner while being relatively economic about our stars?

We can get upwards to about 5000 damage at the cost of 5-6 stars...which is okay, but meh. Haku doesn't look like a train wreck anymore. But they do make some questionable design decisions. 6D being a very prominent example.

[Spark]

・5C>Kishuu>Enma>J2C>2C~Agito does around 3500?

・5C>Renka>Kishuu>2C~Agito might've done a little under 3500

The enma combo does the same or more than the renka kishuu combo? Seems pointless to use renka in that case, unless you want it to be more burst safe?