[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[Kriegdrache]

Agito puts you in a mean mix up if you quick tech on hit(possibly on block too) along with being an overall great move.

6b does good dmg on CH.

5d enma does incredible dmg for 1 star off a counter even if its a little slow.

his OD is brutal.

His meter gain is nice.

He can spam his CT more than anyone else.

And he is badass incarnate.

This is the kind of Man we need in the white house.

Haku/Valk 2016

[BladeOfJustice7]

#HakuValk2016 I see this becoming a theme in CP. War veterans running for office, one thing's for sure, that snaky Hazama doesn't have my vote...

Did you know Hazama isn't even his real name? How could I vote for someone to secretive?

[mAc Chaos]

But I really like his VP, Relius.

[BladeOfJustice7]

I'm personally against his Detonators Legislative, forcing women to become living killing machines. And his belief we should remove all seithr (magic) from the world, without offering any alternatives for clean energy.

[Kriegdrache]

I love his policy on childcare and education though.

[Moblin]

But if you think about it, by nature, he values the battle of attrition over any kind of proactiveness. If he extends this to his foreign policy, we may never pull our troops out of the middle east, while he waits for America's meter to build.

On the other hand, we wouldn't be jumping into any more situations like it in the future with Hakumen in office. Overall, I would vote for him.

[BladeOfJustice7]

I love his policy on childcare and education though.

Yes yes, free education on all levels especially science and alchemy because of his slogan "Any child can become a true mad scientist" was great but he seemed to agree on Hazama's Hazacare healthcare plan. Any weak or contemptible souls should be used for smelding murakumo units to be used against potential foreign threats? Yet it's ok that strong souls who join the government be free healthcare and additional benefits?

Yes Hakumen wants to change America's meter management but in the long run it could be beneficial for the country.

[Isuna]

Did we know that 5D is super cancelable?

[itsme]

Is it? Haven't seen it happen anywhere yet. I know it's supposed to be during OD though I haven't seen anyone land his drive outside of Yukikaze during OD.

[Isuna]

5D > Shippuu = 3720

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj9_nMvYmHM&t=3m9s

[BlackYakuzu94]

That's always been possible, at least in Extend it was, you can do it off 2D and 6D as well I presume.

[Isuna]

But 5D and 2D are supposedly uncombable in CP. And only special cancelable during OD.

[itsme]

Oh, I think it's just super cancel-able then like his 6C.

[Isuna]

Then I wonder... is 5D > Mugen > something possible?

[itsme]

Then I wonder... is 5D > Mugen > something possible?

Possibly though I think you don't have enough time to follow it up after Mugen. Then again, Mugen is looking pretty useless now aside from OD Shippu fun.

[Isuna]

Can't we use it now for that little extra damage needed to win the round?

I mean, its lightyears more useful now with its less recovery.

If 5D > Mugen > Renka (1) > Zantetsu (1) > Shippuu works it would be 5183.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Isuna

[BladeOfJustice7]

Isn't the proration on like everything in Mugen bad though?

[itsme]

@Isuna - It's hard to even consider it since we now have FC Enma combos that could probably do more, don't we have one that does like 5.6k for 5 stars or something? Also, I'm curious if we can do something like Throw>OD>Mugen>Renka(1)>Zantetsu(1)>Guren>OD Shippu wave>Kishuu>Shippu; even though it does like 4k at the best, I'm just curious if the combo part Guren>OD wave can connect for a wall bounce juggle.

Also, did anyone figure out the prorations on the OD Shippu wave? I tried calculation it numerous times and one set of proration works for case but it doesn't in another and it's really bugging me. It's supposedly 100/80 with 3000 base but I'm not getting it right during calculations.

EDIT: Actually, I figured out what I was doing wrong for my calculation and his OD wave does seem to be 100/80 with 3000 base and 600 minimum.

Also, while I was refining my damage calculator, I think Tsubaki possibly doesn't ignore CR during Mugen and only Shippu sword does considering someone reporting being able to do 7k+ off of a raw Mugen Tsubaki starter with 2 more Tsubaki+Shippu and if it did ignore the CR, it would do way more then that. Someone in the jbbs also reported being able to do a neat OD Yukikaze combo that's back to corner OD > OD Yukikaze > Mugen > OD Shippu wave > Zantetsu(1) > Kishuu > step Tsubaki > 5C > Zantetsu(1) > Shippu sword for 6451 damage. I also used it to try test out Tsubaki's Mugen damage and that got me 6971 with Tsubaki ignoring the combo rate and 6440 if calculating with the combo rate; though this result still is pretty sketchy to prove much.

@Blade - Not proration but the combo rate gets halved from his usual 60 to 30, meaning your special's damage gets cut in half. That and Tsubaki/Zantetsu got combo time SMP so you can only put some of them in, a shame too since Tsubaki still ignores the combo rate during the new Mugen.

Edited December 8, 2012 by itsme

[Isuna]

@Isuna - It's hard to even consider it since we now have FC Enma combos that could probably do more, don't we have one that does like 5.6k for 5 stars or something?

True, very true.

Actually, I figured out what I was doing wrong for my calculation and his OD wave does seem to be 100/80 with 3000 base and 600 minimum

Well, Shippuu (wave) is 2500 + 20% OD damage = 3000. However, intersting that the minimum damage includes the damage buff.

Not proration but the combo rate gets halved from his usual 60 to 30, meaning your special's damage gets cut in half.

Oh, yeah I completely forgot about that.

Could be that I never found the logic in the super-mode-for-combos-that-makes-your-combos-damage-less thingy.

[mAc Chaos]

Some people are compiling the win rates of their best JP players to get an idea of how the matchups are.

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?15395-Noel-Vermillion-General-Gameplay-Discussion-CP-Editon!/page16&p=1431238&viewfull=1#post1431238

Maybe we should try something like that.

[Moy_X7]

I got a question...

What's the frame advantage from a blocked Zanshin (Counter)? Positive? Negative? Neutral?

[BladeOfJustice7]

Is there any purpose in doing so? Just wondering is all.

EDIT:

I got a question...

What's the frame advantage from a blocked Zanshin (Counter)? Positive? Negative? Neutral?

We don't know yet, but someone in the hakumen jbbs, according to Isuna, said minus. But it's just one person so take that with a grain of salt.

[mAc Chaos]

Well, I guess it kind of makes sense. If their goal was to make it so he didn't get out of projectile oki, and their solution to that was to make the counter blockable, then it wouldn't make sense for it to be + on block. After all, then Haku would be the one who could make the next move and basically get out. If it was minus on block, then you could block the counter and then keep applying pressure.

It's probably like -3 or something though, something that isn't punishable but that still lets you get the first hit in if both of you try to hit buttons right away. All speculation though. And of course you could just counter again.

Then again, you could look at it the other way too. Not getting hit by the counter and being able to get in close and block it might be enough of a reward to justify letting it stay positive on block.

[BladeOfJustice7]

neutral on block would be preferrable though.

But I can see the direction they're heading with the game is very GG-esk, weaker defensive options and stronger offensive options for the cast members and a faster paced game.

[Moy_X7]

I think it would make sense for it to be either neutral or slightly negative on block. It would weaken projectile oki but that same oki would have still done its job of keeping Haku in the corner and prevent him from rolling out, being neutral or slightly negative on block would still keep it from being a strong anti-oki option.

If it's +1 on block then that's fine too, it would create a similar scenario to Jin's 6A +1 on hit. Some moves will low profile under Haku's 5A while others would outright beat 2A even when he's +1. Then there's moves with foot invulnerability as well as reversals, etc, etc.