[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[BladeOfJustice7]

Considering the fact we can get 5k off Zanshin and even if they block it we get a magatama everytime we successfully counter, I think it's fair.

[psycofang2]

i still havent seen the 5k thing unless it involves zantetsu.

if itdoesnt do you have a link?

[BladeOfJustice7]

Yea you're right it's this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WYvXdNjxurA#t=568s

[BlackYakuzu94]

How so? Zashin still can't be punished so the worst you are going to deal with is a mix-up if it is blocked.

I recall a video where someone blocked, and proceeded to mix up like you said, I might be mistaken tho, hold on.

[psycofang2]

Yea you're right it's this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WYvXdNjxurA#t=568s

maybe its the old haku in me but that is a zantetsu and a CT. it also looked like it was akward and ended early.

maybe FC enma 5C CT jc jB>J2A fJ2C 5A for two loops? for higher damage and better return?

because yeah that looked more like a burst combo than it was an actual combo.

Edited January 5, 2013 by psycofang2

[Yukikaze]

Nearly any Zan > CT > combo will give around 5k from what im seeing.... Did Counters not always give you a star anyway?

I'm assuming opponent can block any catch or is it more specific? If its any catch then its definitely not fair... a blockable counter is stupid imo.

May aswell remodel his drive entirely.

[mAc Chaos]

It's any catch.

[psycofang2]

Nearly any Zan > CT > combo will give around 5k from what im seeing.... Did Counters not always give you a star anyway?

I'm assuming opponent can block any catch or is it more specific? If its any catch then its definitely not fair... a blockable counter is stupid imo.

May aswell remodel his drive entirely.

i ment there has to be more efficient combos without such high star usage off a FC.

and yeah all his drives are blockable.

[Skeletal Minion]

Has the proration of Zanshenma been disclosed? Forgive me if I've overlooked it.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Haku-men is still 100% safe during Zanshin right? If that's the case it's still a really good move. Even if you mash it with a DP or something you'd just set yourself up for a free CH combo.

[mAc Chaos]

Yeah.

[LegendaryRath]

I'm pretty sure I've seen FC drives break 3k or get close, which seems pretty good to me. Obviously you could throw Zantetsu in there to make it a much better combo, but I don't think you'll ever be wasting magatama or something. It's your choice if you want to add a little extra damage or not.

[psycofang2]

im aware of that, its just its a FC combo.

im trying to find a way to get as close to 5k as possible without spending 5 stars on a fatal counter combo.

its a fatal counter, theres got to be more you can do with it to get it close without using so much.

you can 5k outside of FC with the same amount.

[LegendaryRath]

Honestly, I'm happy with what we've got. Just being able to get good damage off a counter is good enough for me. When they give us an inch, we shouldn't expect a mile... or something like that.

I understand why you think you should get so much more. It's a FC, it's implied. But still, there's tons of characters where a FC doesn't matter like at all (I'm talking about Ex cuz I don't know a whole ton about some of these guys in CP). Bang doesn't get any different combo options off a fatal. Even Hotaru being a fatal, has pretty bad damage when compared to other simple confirms.

Getting 3k+ for barely anything off something that used to get nothing is an excellent buff. I'm gonna ignore the whole topic of his drive nerfs, just talking about the confirm.

[psycofang2]

Honestly, I'm happy with what we've got. Just being able to get good damage off a counter is good enough for me. When they give us an inch, we shouldn't expect a mile... or something like that.

But we always got good damage off a counter, if its a fatal id expect a few feet more than whats given

I understand why you think you should get so much more. It's a FC, it's implied. But still, there's tons of characters where a FC doesn't matter like at all (I'm talking about Ex cuz I don't know a whole ton about some of these guys in CP). Bang doesn't get any different combo options off a fatal

yes he does, ive been hit with it and took a crap ton of damage off of a combo literally made of burning knuckles.. Even Hotaru being a fatal, has pretty bad damage when compared to other simple confirms.

4k is not bad, thats actually absurd damage with 2 star return, thats actuallly pretty damn retarded imo and hes my main

Getting 3k+ for barely anything off something that used to get nothing is an excellent buff. I'm gonna ignore the whole topic of his drive nerfs, just talking about the confirm.

thing is BECAUSE its a fatal it allows for more in which its not possibly otherwise, im not nor did i imply i want more damage, i want to get as close as possible to the damage displayed without using the resources normally required. thats what hakus Fcs always did, give more of the same with a lower resource requirement.

he used 5 stars to get 5k off a fatal counter, you can do that without a fatal, within a fatal especially for hakumen and his good damage mid screen 3k+ for 3 stars off an average starter, a FC that auto launches into his best basic bnb loop should allow for less resourses used and close to the same output. im not asking for some crazy damage output, its just reasonable to try and get as close as possible as SAVE resources so as to use them on okizeme

yeah

Edited January 6, 2013 by psycofang2

[mAc Chaos]

5k off a counter is enough for me even if it costs stars. Since it's damage you can get off a counter.

Although if there was a way to get more efficient damage, even if it was less damage, that would be good.

[psycofang2]

5k off a counter is enough for me even if it costs stars. Since it's damage you can get off a counter.

Although if there was a way to get more efficient damage, even if it was less damage, that would be good.

thats literally all im stressing.

im not one to sit on what i got unless its set in stone.

i will search for more power if it can be obtained, if not? well at least i tried.

even then the way he comboed off the Fc my mind is racing hard.

he FC enma;d what if he waited 5C'd CT'd into zan for a damage booster then j2C looped?

i think that would have boosted the output.

[dioxideUniversa]

you can do pretty long loops with FC 2d without using a lot of meter

iirc you can do j.2c, 2c > j.2a > j.2c, 5a > j.2a > j.2c, 5a j.2a etc and get nearly 4k but i can't remember the exact numbers or what video it was i saw it in

[psycofang2]

yeah i think it was like 3.6 or something.

im wondering if you just CT or Zantetsu you can get roughly the same outcome.

because that combo he did looked like a burst damage combo, trying to catch up to her or something.

[itsme]

I think it's the combo time prorations (which we're not sure how much each moves has except for the Same Attack Combo moves with their SMPs) that are dictating how long our FC Enma combos are so we're only able to get a max of 3.5-4k with no mags from it despite the thing being a FC combo. I honestly think 5k for 5-7 mags off of a counter is pretty good this game, if Hakumen can still bring pain to the opponent anywhere on the screen I'm content.

[LegendaryRath]

I'm more than content with what I'm seeing off drive fatals. Seriously psyco, I get what you're saying and kinda agree that you should get ridiculous damage off fatals. But I don't see the problem. You're just concerned with the fact that it's a fatal. If we got the same exact damage off a regular counter (not FC) your point wouldn't be valid. Think back to Hotaru and you could say the same thing. The combos we can get off it are the exact same regardless of whether it's a FC (With the exception of midscreen teching too soon to follow up with j.2C. I'm almost certain it would act the same way if they chose to make it a regular CH, sort of like rapiding a CH inferno divider)

I want to reiterate that I agree with you. I just don't think we should make a fuss over it just yet. Besides, you're probably right about the possibilities that could open up with meter. I doubt we're seeing the absolute best combos yet

Speaking of which, I never see any players use corner combos. I'm assuming they're trickier or something, because I only see people do midscreen combos, even up against the wall.

Edited January 6, 2013 by LegendaryRath

[mAc Chaos]

He's not upset, he's just trying to figure out if there are any more optimal combos for it.

[mAc Chaos]

Speaking of which, I never see any players use corner combos. I'm assuming they're trickier or something, because I only see people do midscreen combos, even up against the wall.

I just assumed there weren't any. :3

[psycofang2]

im not upset, though i may have sounded like it i apologize.

im mainly wondering the possibilties of if and how we can get more off the same thing, because its a fatal the hit stun is longer allowing more damaging normals to link then normal combos would allow.

theres gotta be away.

just like in cs1 even when hakumens landed FC hotaru they always ended early when they could have gotten 4.3k with the exact same outcome.

i am greedy, i want to make them hurt as much as i am possibly allowed. or do as much damage as possible without using too much resources.

if its set in stone and i cant? least i can get 5k.

but what if theres more...

Edited January 6, 2013 by psycofang2

[LegendaryRath]

Sorry if I got kind of defensive. I'm also kind of obsessed with squeezing as much damage as possible out of every confirm, without wasting meter and such. Once we get the game, we'll have a ton of fun I'm sure.

mAc, yes there are corner combos. They seem to make use a loop you can do with j.C wallsticks. Something like stuff > 2C > j.2A > falling j.C (wallsticks here) > (land) 5C > 2C > repeat once or twice. I really want to see how much the difference is between this sort of thing and the normal midscreen stuff. The only problem is how rarely I see people attempt it.