[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[Skeletal Minion]

I understand 3C since it's been a little too good, and 2B is a fair trade for more active frames plus it's irrelevant since we can late gatling to 2A, but 6A's change is just baffling. That move went from +2 to +5 to 0 to -4 (and maybe +3 at one point, can't remember). Didn't it lose wallbounce too?

Only use I see for it anymore is corner OS, but even that's looking questionable with wallbounce loss putting that back to CS2 status, where all you got was a meager 5A > jump combo and 2B might be a better meaty if you can land it on one of the later active frames.

All I really want is a slightly slowed CT (stationary) 6A since we can't rely on 6D for AA anymore, or a post CT style (sliding) 6A that's +3 on block to help stay in. Really don't get their reasoning with this.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Skeletal Minion

[mAc Chaos]

Maybe a good 6A would have been a problem with the other stuff he has... but the question is, how.

[itsme]

Just saw through Kurushii's scans and out of all the step characters, Haku seems to be the only one with a "dash acceleration" and a "maximum dash speed". I wonder if that means he covers a lot more distance faster if he continues stepping in succession.

Also, 16 frame forward step (special cancel-able frame 6~) and a 15 frame back step (special cancel-able frame 8~) is going to be fun.

EDIT: Actually, I just realized we always had a 16 frame forward step. At least 15 frames back is better than the previous 27 frame one.

[BladeOfJustice7]

His forward hop still seems faster though, and they say it's still the same as the older games?

[itsme]

Seems so, this mook seems to have bunch of errors from the sound of the jbbs and other subforums here, though I wouldn't be surprised if his forward step stayed the same since his back step definitely got faster and it shows in the mook. Not sure if CP's 366 dot is more than CSE's 326536 dot if put on a scale but maybe it "looks" faster because Haku covers more distance in CP in the same time compared to the older games?

[Kurushii]

Seems so, this mook seems to have bunch of errors from the sound of the jbbs and other subforums here

I haven't seen a perfect mook yet. All of them have typos, errors, and missing data. Hopefully the publisher mans up to release a correction pdf (happen with BBCSE), if not we'll just have to test things when console hits.

[itsme]

Yeah, but these numbers really don't matter until we get game anyway so I guess it's fine for most of us(console release when?).

Also, thanks for providing the scans man.

[BladeOfJustice7]

My White Voided Brethren, your inputs would be very much appreciated:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?13757-CSE-Hakumen-vs-Valkenhayn/page2&p=1484056&viewfull=1#post1484056

[kirbster]

I thought it looked like a kick too, but if the input is A it makes sense for it be his hands. They sort of base the control scheme around a (not strict) form of A for hands, B for Legs, C for weapon, and D for Drive. Obviously there's plenty of exceptions (Bang, for instance) but in general that's how most characters seem to work.

Wow I never actually noticed this but it's so true lol

[itsme]

My White Voided Brethren, your inputs would be very much appreciated:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?13757-CSE-Hakumen-vs-Valkenhayn/page2&p=1484056&viewfull=1#post1484056

Aside from the typos, I think it's a fairly well-written brief match up analysis. I feel like referencing GG match ups in the beginning is a mixed bag since people who knows what it is can get a better idea faster while people who don't know what it is are reading through stuff they have little to no understanding about.

[WolfCrimson]

What's the frame advantage on 6B?

Edit: Unbelievable:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ff5vyEuJ8ns#t=297s

Edited April 8, 2013 by WolfCrimson

[Kurushii]

-4

[BladeOfJustice7]

Aside from the typos, I think it's a fairly well-written brief match up analysis. I feel like referencing GG match ups in the beginning is a mixed bag since people who knows what it is can get a better idea faster while people who don't know what it is are reading through stuff they have little to no understanding about.

Haven't had time to finish it up yet, but you feel I should exclude GG references? And any other input besides that?

[WolfCrimson]

Just a correction that needs to be made in the frame data in the wiki : Haku's 6C can now FC at all levels, just max 6C forces FC.

Edited April 12, 2013 by WolfCrimson

[itsme]

Oh neat, the BBCP frames data are up now. Also, I thought Haku's combo rate stayed at 60%, the wiki says it's at 70%.

[bk-20179]

Haku's health is 11k now ? it says so in the wiki

Typo ? or did i miss something

[toanenadiz]

It's a typo

[bk-20179]

Thanks, i really need to confirm that

[WolfCrimson]

OK so now that Haku's frame data is up: jC has Ws30 frames. Does that mean that he cause opponents to wallstick for 30 frames, or that this untech state lasts for 30 frames which will also wallstick if near a wall, and will the opponent be wallstuck for a specific number of frames or the remainder of the untech frames?

Also, is it possible for "j.2A> jc> falling jC> land 2C" to loop in the corner?

[dioxideUniversa]

i do not really think that has the capability to loop due to all the floating in it

part of why j.C > 5c otg 2c is common in that combo, 2c'ing after a falling j.C at any height would probably float them way too high to do anything with it and i don't think it has enough untech to do like weird delayed 2C shenanigans (at which point you'd just do 5c > 2c anyway because it serves the same purpose)

Edited April 15, 2013 by dioxideUniversa

[itsme]

In general, I think you want to avoid loops in CP because of how the new combo time works since the longer the combo = the faster hit stun deterioration is going to come in. I actually think this is another advantage Haku gained this game since you can blow meter on huge damage in couple of hits instead of getting little by little from trying to loop moves.

But yeah, I think one or two reps of j2A > jc jC > 5C > 2C could help add some damage if you can afford the time to put them in.

[dioxideUniversa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFF8oP739-c#t=23m35s did anyone catch this in the recent vids

someone was talking about hop agito recently...

[itsme]

Neat but yeah, step Agito is supposedly minus on block but the Lambda was barrier blocking plus Haku had meter to Hotaru and I don't think most players would try to mash out after it since it's done so rarely and being beat out of mashing bunch of times by jB after an IAD Agito must keep people more wary against it.

[Kunaki]

A bit unrelated but still...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=vuOlKUikLM4#t=06m48s

[psycofang2]

that was nice.

also hop agito being minus -7 or so is kinda a decent gamble considering what he can do off of it.

also slightly delaying the input can mess with people attempting to IB it.