[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[dioxideUniversa]

if it works like normal enma you can probably just jump cancel kishuu out of it

[BlackYakuzu94]

Yea, because its a FC, they can't tech until they hit the ground right?

[Spark]

You wouldn't need to do the jump to kishuu cancel since you don't use kishuu with drive enma. Also don't forget you can jump cancel cancel into OD off of it.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Spark

[mAc Chaos]

Well, I was mainly thinking of being able to use that extra time to open up a different combo route that could do more damage.

I know for regular Enma that unless you jump cancel it, the recovery is a bit longer and it's harder to follow up.

[mAc Chaos]

Also I just realized there is a gaping hole in our frame data: what is the frame data for Hakumen's taunt.

Lots of trolling is riding on this.

[onemic]

Have a few questions, beginner bb/hakumen player here.

What are hakumens general tools for pressure? Right now I'm stuck doing 2A into 6A or 6B, or 2B into renka. 2A seems to suck as a starter so I usually try to for 2B into renka or Zan.

Secondly what is hakumens frame adv/disadv for a blocked 5C/5B/2B>>renka>>kishuu? And what are some options for hakumen when an opponent constantly jumps after the kishuu?

What are some options against someone that back rolls or jumps during wakup?

What is the benefit of doing agito instead of just j.5C at the end of every bnb loop? The amount of dmg agito adds is miniscule and it costs one star. it doesn't even seem like you get to the ground before the opponent techs

[Lucalibur]

2A is great for pressure because of the frame advantage and available options off it. Even though it's a bad starter, it still goes into 3C meterless for 1K and knockdown, so you can't really complain. Other than that, 2B is another decent move despite the massive frame advantage nerf it got in CP, because it still frames trap nicely.

Don't know about the second one, but I would take you're safe enough to resume pressure on normal block.

If you got a good knockdown, you can safe jump J.B\J.2C to beat rolls. Otherwise, 2B beats forward rolls and no teching. Backrollers can be forced into pressure nevertheless by 214Aing after 2B, and if they try to jump away they will usually get caught on the jump startup frames. In the corner 2B beats everything but the usual DPs.

Knockdown. While high altitude J.2C into Agito gives a very basic form of knockdown, it still gives that. J.C gives nothing but damage(outside of the corner), and Haku -really- wants that knockdown over, say, extra 50 damage since his new BnBs prorate so harshly by the end of the day. You can do Agito off your first jump and get much better oki by still keeping the ability to air dash or do a meaty safe jump J.B. Air dash J.B>OD>J.B>Stuff is actually a pretty legit route people seem to get caught by it more often than they should.

[.ShotS]

Well, I was mainly thinking of being able to use that extra time to open up a different combo route that could do more damage.

I know for regular Enma that unless you jump cancel it, the recovery is a bit longer and it's harder to follow up.

Off of FC you get things like j.2C 2C j.2A j.2C 2C j.2A j.2C 5A 5B j.B j.2A j.2C Agito with the extra untech. If you want to really make it hurt, you can also go into j.2C 5C routes.

Example

5/2D Enma FC j.2C 5C Zan(1) Kishuu 2C Hotaru [AD] j.C 6C 5C Gurren 5C 3C

6014 - 5.5 Stars needed to start - Midscreen

[mAc Chaos]

Hey Spark. Do you think that corner BnB you posted earlier would work off throw in the corner?

[- Stasis -]

Would any of the vet Haku players like to have some matches?

I'm east coast btw

[Spark]

Hey Spark. Do you think that corner BnB you posted earlier would work off throw in the corner?

Probably not, but I haven't tested.

[- Stasis -]

loving the step Hotaru throw combo much more than the CT throw bnb

putting Nu in the bottom corner feels good ^^

[onemic]

I'm trying to practice 2B>Zan and for some reason depending on how fast I time it I get 2B>Shippu instead. Any way to fix this?

[IndigoNovember]

I'm trying to practice 2B>Zan and for some reason depending on how fast I time it I get 2B>Shippu instead. Any way to fix this?

Your inputs should be 2B -> reset stick position/let go of D-pad (you want the game to see this as a 5 inbetween your 2B and Zantetsu) -> 41236C instead of 2B141236C (this is what you get if you do everything in one motion) . You don't want the game to mistake your inputs, hence the 5 in between the two moves.

[mAc Chaos]

The game is supposed to have some shady input issues too.

[BlackYakuzu94]

I just did 2B>Zan and 2B>Shippu, no overlap whatsoever.

[onemic]

Your inputs should be 2B -> reset stick position/let go of D-pad (you want the game to see this as a 5 inbetween your 2B and Zantetsu) -> 41236C instead of 2B141236C (this is what you get if you do everything in one motion) . You don't want the game to mistake your inputs, hence the 5 in between the two moves.

Thanks, guess it'll just take practice.

Also can someone give me an idea of some pressure/mixup Hakumen can do with 2A? I've been stuck just mashing 2A into 3C, 2A>2B>stuff and 2A>6A

Edited November 3, 2013 by onemic

[Kriegdrache]

My copy arrived yesterday and I've been practicing Haku quite a bit.

I still can't stop doing Extend stuff, like trying to dash after J.2A. Oh god this is gonna take some getting used to. ;_;

I already miss 6D as well.

[BladeOfJustice7]

My copy arrived yesterday and I've been practicing Haku quite a bit.

I still can't stop doing Extend stuff, like trying to dash after J.2A. Oh god this is gonna take some getting used to. ;_;

I already miss 6D as well.

It just takes some time getting used to and watching matches, I'm already almost used to performing 2 jump loops (in offline matches). If anything I just forget how to do combos and end up with a brain fart after a j2a lol.

[ban1son]

It just takes some time getting used to and watching matches, I'm already almost used to performing 2 jump loops (in offline matches). If anything I just forget how to do combos and end up with a brain fart after a j2a lol.

Same here although I'm slowly forgetting EX's muscle memory, but yea after j2a, brain fart (luv that word.. lol) would describe what I'm experiencing to.

[Kriegdrache]

It just takes some time getting used to and watching matches, I'm already almost used to performing 2 jump loops (in offline matches). If anything I just forget how to do combos and end up with a brain fart after a j2a lol.

I still can't get my head around the jump loops, every time I've attempted it, I've gone "OH FUCK WHAT IS HAPPENING!?" and I mess up super hard.

Hell, When I'm meant to do the J2C > agito ender on babby combos, I always do JC for some reason.

I am a bad Hakumen ;_; I guess I'm just gonna practice the combos in the combo thread and listen to montage music while I do it I guess.

Berserker F/Z palette is so rad though.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Kriegdrache

[ban1son]

I still can't get my head around the jump loops, every time I've attempted it, I've gone "OH FUCK WHAT IS HAPPENING!?" and I mess up super hard.

Hell, When I'm meant to do the J2C > agito ender on babby combos, I always do JC for some reason.

I am a bad Hakumen ;_; I guess I'm just gonna practice the combos in the combo thread and listen to montage music while I do it I guess.

Berserker F/Z palette is so rad though.

May sound silly but just stress the down C after the j2a, there is quite a bit of time to do it because j2a floats opponent slightly upwards now, I'm still having trouble landing the 2nd 5a in the loop (keeps whiffing), but gonna keep labbing to get the timing down, also is any one having trouble airdashing after full renka for jb,j2a,5c or 2c scenario? I cant seem to get the airdash out in time and so I whiff completely (hakus airdash seems a lot shorter now)...

[dioxideUniversa]

renka ends a lot faster than it used to as they shortened the gap between the first and second hits. that said, you need to IAD earlier than before

if your 5a is whiffing, the bottom line is you aren't delaying your j.2cs enough.

[ban1son]

renka ends a lot faster than it used to as they shortened the gap between the first and second hits. that said, you need to IAD earlier than before

if your 5a is whiffing, the bottom line is you aren't delaying your j.2cs enough.

Thanks man..

[Kriegdrache]

May sound silly but just stress the down C after the j2a, there is quite a bit of time to do it because j2a floats opponent slightly upwards now, I'm still having trouble landing the 2nd 5a in the loop (keeps whiffing), but gonna keep labbing to get the timing down, also is any one having trouble airdashing after full renka for jb,j2a,5c or 2c scenario? I cant seem to get the airdash out in time and so I whiff completely (hakus airdash seems a lot shorter now)...

Ok, cool, I guess I'll try it when I get the chance.

I really do like the new Hakumen though, he does seem like he could be a lot of fun, especially with unit cookie dough and stuff, but it's gonna take a while to get used to.

I've given up on Valk for the time being as well, cause I tried playing him in an offline session yesterday and I was like "WHAT!?" Bang is fun tho, so I may try learning him a little more as well.