[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[mAc Chaos]

You can still do it. You just need to time it right.

Unless OD is not invincible towards the end. It's fully invincible.

Edited November 11, 2013 by mAc Chaos

[Raziul]

Seems to be a lot easier if it's something with more than one hit. Ragna's 5D is very susceptible. Whiff the first part, yuki the second. Otherwise the timing is just incredibly strict and tight.

Most attacks are ending before Hakumen's movements become active again.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Raziul

[mAc Chaos]

So, do you guys feel like Haku is better suited to offense or defense this time around?

I can see it going both ways.

[BlackYakuzu94]

So, do you guys feel like Haku is better suited to offense or defense this time around?

I can see it going both ways.

He can definitely approach better and with the meter gain buff, he can dish it out faster too; I'd say offensive.

[BladeOfJustice7]

So, do you guys feel like Haku is better suited to offense or defense this time around?

I can see it going both ways.

Offense, but not effectively implemented changes for what they aimed for him to be offensive in my books, since he lost a lot of the frame advantages he used to have in CSEX which allowed him to pressure the opponent. With Tsubaki only useful at the end of the around since you can't combo off of it due to it's immense damage buff, and 6b only being comboable on CH, and hotaru being incredibly unsafe now, he doesn't have enough of the right offensive tools.

With his counters being mostly gimped you're forced to go on the offense more in matches now overall, which isn't always an easy thing to do.

That said, he's still a very fun character to play.

[edollarports]

I feel it's less offensive and defensive and more derptastic

mash mash mash lol airthrow

[Sophisticat]

I'm... not really liking this new Haku, tbh. Gimme back my efficient killing machine we had back in EX, plz.

His buffs are cool. Extra meter gain is great and so is less dependence on meter. But it also feels like OD's his only real advantage. Without OD, he'd be middle-of-the-pack and uni-dimensional.

So I dunno. His defensive tools got nerfed, and he can't really keep up an offence either. You're just sitting there for the right opportunity to activate OD -> win. He at least had more versatility back in EX.

Meh. I really wish Arc would implement the following changes in future Haku revisions:

+ Buff his close game. Make it more about frame traps and short pressure strings. Give him a command grab if necessary.

+ Give Tsubaki and Zantetsu a guard point.

+ Bring back old 6D. You don't even need to change the way counters work right now; just bring back old 6D.

+ Make j.C AD-cancellable. Keep j.2a as-is.

* Keep his spacing/long-range poking game.

* Keep the footsies. Maybe bring back old 2b.

- Slightly reduce meter gain.

- Nerf OD in some fashion. Maybe reduce its duration?

The overall idea is to make him self-sufficent outside of OD and meter gain while buffing his close/mixup game. I feel he should be a naturally strong character like in EX, not a one-trick pony like he is in CP.

Do this and I'll be happy. EX Haku may have been a bit boring by the end of EX's life, but he at least had a bigger bag of tricks than we have right now.

[BladeOfJustice7]

For the most part I have to agree with what Nolan posted above, though I still find him fun. If I didn't I wouldn't play Hakumen and/or this game.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Hakumen's fun factor is the only reason I play him. If he wasn't fun, a part of the game would die for me.

[Raziul]

I'm enjoying most of the changes. I just wish they'd given us something a little more consistent than the carry loop. 92A92C5A92A is a pain. 10 more frames of hitstun on j.2C would make my life a whole lot easier in so many ways.

[WolfCrimson]

10 more frames of hitstun on j2C would make nerfing OD justified.

[mAc Chaos]

Are backdash Hotaru and Tsubaki no longer possible? I can't get them to work.

[.ShotS]

Are backdash Hotaru and Tsubaki no longer possible? I can't get them to work.

They work for me. The window is pretty small though.

[mAc Chaos]

Yeah I just got it. Much smaller window.

[C0R]

Meh. I really wish Arc would implement the following changes in future Haku revisions:

+ Buff his close game. Make it more about frame traps and short pressure strings. Give him a command grab if necessary.

+ Give Tsubaki and Zantetsu a guard point.

+ Make j.C AD-cancellable. Keep j.2a as-is.

Hakumen has an extremely good A/B normal selection. There aren't really any moves up for competition when it comes to that. Everything from the extremely plus air unblockable 5a to the recoiling hitbox on 5b to one of the longest basic throw ranges in the game makes him a TERROR up close.

Applying any form of an extra attribute to these moves would at least demand some sort of trade. The meter consumption aspect is what makes them big, fast, do huge damage and even smash antiairs in the case of tsubaki. If you mean giving them GP in order to block reversals well, I mean common. Uppercut safe mixup is reserved for safejumps and fuzzy guards.

I could see j.C ADC Forward only + On Hit only. Elsewise you're making his good matchups more extreme in his favor and not helping his bad ones.

[Nakkiel]

what the fuck

[mAc Chaos]

Giving him guard point would not make sense. But his throw range is like 0 pixels now so if they made it back to how it was that would be great.

[Nakkiel]

Everyone's throw range has been severely shortened though..

[mAc Chaos]

Characters are affected differently by changes. Some are more reliant on certain mechanics than others. Like if there was a universal backdash nerf, you can bet it would affect Lambda more than Hakumen.

And I was just responding to COR who said Hakumen has one of the greatest throw ranges, since that is not true anymore.

The main reason I don't like his nerfed throw range is that the threat of throw makes a huge difference in his pressure and frame traps. Without it there is a lot less to worry about, and thus it is less likely for the opponent to get pressured into eating a frame trap.

Edited November 15, 2013 by mAc Chaos

[C0R]

Characters are affected differently by changes. Some are more reliant on certain mechanics than others. Like if there was a universal backdash nerf, you can bet it would affect Lambda more than Hakumen.

And I was just responding to COR who said Hakumen has one of the greatest throw ranges, since that is not true anymore.

Um. Who has a bigger throw range outside of Tager?

[Nakkiel]

That's correct but returning a throw range is not feasible when it's a system-wide change. There was a point to the change, not that I know what that is or I would even agree with it but it surely wasn't unintentional.

[mAc Chaos]

That's correct but returning a throw range is not feasible when it's a system-wide change. There was a point to the change, not that I know what that is or I would even agree with it but it surely wasn't unintentional.

You could say the same for Haku OD.

Um. Who has a bigger throw range outside of Tager?

Hmm. Looks like I jumped the gun here. I just realized I don't know the exact range in CP. Do you have the throw data on hand?

My point, though, was that the throw nerf hurts his pressure a lot and giving him it back would be a modest change that makes a big difference. If he happens to have a greater throw range than everyone but Tager even now then it does not really make a difference as far as his pressure is concerned.

[Errol]

throw data is in the frame data. step characters have longer throw range, but on run characters if you have even a 5a point blank barriered a throw will whiff.

the range is a number. tsubaki has 70, hakumen has 100 I think. the worst nerfed was bang who had 120 range and went down to 70. other run chars had 90 range throws in EX but he had 120.

I lol'd at guardpoint on zantetsu and tsubaki though.. I mean .. really. fine by me though, high/mid guard point, startup slowed down by 10 frames each.

[mAc Chaos]

I'm looking at the frame data and I can't find it. WHERE @

Well, obviously you would need to make other changes if you buff the throw. I'm just saying that I would enjoy it more, personally. Right now after 1 2A you are out of throw range.

[Errol]

T(90)