[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[OmnixTSC]

Renka has better combo scaling than Enma though. So during OD combos you'll end up doing more damage during similar combo routes, and it also guarantees that CT will be within range after Zantetsu (1). Also this is just an execution thing for me but I find it a bit awkward to confirm 2B > enma, and find it easier to go 2B > renka. For an extra star I can get more damage with the renka route and similar meter gain. Though if you're able to easily confirm 2B > enma then Renka is only useful in the corners really.

For some starters, the extra magatama you have to give up in order to do the combo isn't worth it. There are also some routes where using Enma instead of Renka will net you comparable damage for one less magatama, as well. There are combos, though, where Renka is the way to go (especially when the extra damage will end the round).

Another thing is that you can use Enma at the start of some OD combos where you're low on magatama to get the necessary amount to do a nice chunk of damage. This is both mid-screen and in the corner. The damage scaling on Renka makes it the more viable route in the corner when you have a lot of magatama, though. There's no denying that.

[BlackYakuzu94]

I tend to alternate between Enma and Renka depending on the star amount, but Renka is definitely easier to confirm off of at the price of one star compared to enma.

[Moblin]

I like doing renka(2) more sometimes because you can do the old airdash combos from it. Those were my favorite Haku BnB. Honestly Renka(2) definitely has its place for low scaling but carrying combos. Renka(1) >kishuu does tons of stuff as well for an extra star.

To get used to Haku's new combo paths, like 2b > Enma I just go into abyss mode and try and hit confirm only that route to win (while I grind stats). You learn to hit confirm it because sometimes the computer blocks and sometimes it doesn't. The item Mr. Stoic gets stats rewars faster while reducing yours to 0, so you get plenty of practice with the combo per match. And Abyss mode is fun.

@Omnix: You mentioned using Enma to stall for stars during your overdrive combo - what is your combo route after Enma once you've used it to stall for enough stars? I have a tough time getting them back to the ground for a Zantetsu or a super, if I do anything but OD cancel the Enma.

[OmnixTSC]

I like doing renka(2) more sometimes because you can do the old airdash combos from it. Those were my favorite Haku BnB.

You can do the old IAD combos with 2B > Gurren as well (saves a magatama, too). AA 5C, AA CH 2C, after Zan(1) and Zan(2). I think there are some others as well.

@Omnix: You mentioned using Enma to stall for stars during your overdrive combo - what is your combo route after Enma once you've used it to stall for enough stars? I have a tough time getting them back to the ground for a Zantetsu or a super, if I do anything but OD cancel the Enma.

I didn't clarify, but I meant when I'd go into Enma > OD and have only 1~1.5 stars afterwards. I'd do something like:

starter > Enma > OD > (walk forward) 5C > Kishuu > 2C > TK Hotaru > etc.

I'd usually hit 4.8k+ at higher health percentages mid-screen with good starters starting with around 2 stars. In the corner, I'd use something like:

starter > Enma > OD > 5C > 2C > j.C > Hotaru > neutral j.C > 6C > 5C > Gurren > 5C > Shippu > etc. (As I should definitely have enough stars for Shippu at this point)

Another way to squeeze out some OD damage that I use is:

starter > Enma > j.2C > 5C > OD > 5C > Zan(1 or 2) > etc.

It's a lot more situational, but it gets you decent damage and builds meter for Zantetsu as well as giving a good bit of corner carry.

I apologize in advance if I confused you with my last comment. It's nothing new, just something people rarely make use of :x

Edited January 25, 2014 by OmnixTSC

[Moblin]

Yeah, that's cool man! I need to work on 5C after the Enma OD cancel. Usually I just hop Hotaru if I don't have enough for Zantetsu. 5C seems like a much better route.

Not sure if you just forgot to add this, but you can definitely get double 5C in the corner after the Enma OD for every character as well. After two 5C you usually have enough for Zantetsu.

For:

j.C > Hotaru > neutral j.C > 6C

In the corner, do you jump cancel or AD cancel the hotaru? It's really hard for me to get low enough to land 6c

Are any Hakumens going to SCR?

Edited January 25, 2014 by Moblin

[OmnixTSC]

Yeah, that's cool man! I need to work on 5C after the Enma OD cancel. Usually I just hop Hotaru if I don't have enough for Zantetsu. 5C seems like a much better route.

You have to make sure the Enma hits pretty close in order to have time to land the 5C. Otherwise, Hotaru is probably fine.

Not sure if you just forgot to add this, but you can definitely get double 5C in the corner after the Enma OD for every character as well. After two 5C you usually have enough for Zantetsu.

I did forget, haha. I think it's b/c I was only doing one 5C in training mode half the time so I could save a tiny bit of OD time to get OD Shippu at the end.

For:

j.C > Hotaru > neutral j.C > 6C

In the corner, do you jump cancel or AD cancel the hotaru? It's really hard for me to get low enough to land 6c

I jump cancel it. I probably should have written j.C > Hotaru > 8 > (Delay) j.C > 6C. The timing is extremely tight on characters like Bang and Valk, though. I usually end up just opting for 5C against those two when I recognize that I messed up the height on the last j.C.

Are any Hakumens going to SCR?

I can't, but I plan on going to FRXVII.

[OmnixTSC]

Do any of you do anything interesting with TK Agito at neutral? I use it to change my arcs/heights for j.2A, j.C, and j.B. I was wondering if you guys use it for anything I might not know about.

[BlackYakuzu94]

TK Agito never really occurred to me, I usually do Hop Agito if I need a quick ground option.

Hmm, I might experiment and see what I can do.

[Schneider-X]

I'm working on a video exploring hop agito options but I have used agito just to vary the timing of my descent while landing or using agito during the first jump and then air dashing or jumping again.

[OmnixTSC]

I tried messing around with TK Agito combo enders. I thought I could find a safe jump for it, but I haven't found anything yet. It can throw people off with the different timing on your knockdown compared to normal jump height Agito enders at the very least.

[Schneider-X]

Here's that hakumen hop agito mixup I was working on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83GuFTbBIvU&feature=youtu.be

Just want to emphasize that this mixup is highly dependent on how much your opponent respects your pressure. Something to keep in mind but not necessarily rely on.

[Moblin]

Seems like you have to condition your opponent to respect it with j.D before you can do anything with it, as most people know it's interruptible. Some people do respect hop agito in general though.

That's a great video and I learned a lot from it.

Since hop Agito, fundamentally, only works when they respect it: you can also airdash after the Agito to do AD j.b mixup which is really really strong.

Airdashing j.B after Agito also punishes the backdash option and either straight up punishes it or allows you to hit their guard, I'm not sure which depending on how fast the airdash and j.b come out.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Moblin

[BlackYakuzu94]

* The Magatama gauge has been change so that it fills more slowly while he is midair

So...how is this gonna affect our combos considering most of them are in the air?

[OmnixTSC]

* The Magatama gauge has been change so that it fills more slowly while he is midair

So...how is this gonna affect our combos considering most of them are in the air?

I'm assuming we just won't profit from Haku loops and such as much. Overall, our heat gain for our go to combos may be lessened.

Also...this Haku hate in the CP news thread is very entertaining. I'm thoroughly enjoying my visit to the realm of shenanigans and half truths.

[Sophisticat]

I don't think it should affect Haku loop too much. Remember, he has gimp star gain after using specials, so it's not like gain during combos is that significant.

I'm more concerned for his general gameplay and approach. Will we now have to spent more time grounded? That would suck.

[Koopa_Klawz]

Here's that hakumen hop agito mixup I was working on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83GuFTbBIvU&feature=youtu.be

Just want to emphasize that this mixup is highly dependent on how much your opponent respects your pressure. Something to keep in mind but not necessarily rely on.

>Sees Hop > Agito > j.D

Huh? I thought you couldn't do that since you were too close to the ground.

[OmnixTSC]

>Sees Hop > Agito > j.D

Huh? I thought you couldn't do that since you were too close to the ground.

Nah, Hop > Agito > j.D has always worked. It's one of the only reasons that Hop > Agito is even viable.

[BlackYakuzu94]

I'm assuming we just won't profit from Haku loops and such as much. Overall, our heat gain for our go to combos may be lessened.

Also...this Haku hate in the CP news thread is very entertaining. I'm thoroughly enjoying my visit to the realm of shenanigans and half truths.

Its quite when everyone hates your character.

[Raziul]

Its quite when everyone hates your character.

The hate is strong with some people. I've been kicked out of a room or two simply for playing Hakumen. It's funny to hear them over the mic sometimes.

[mAc Chaos]

Luckily they get drawn to my shining golden Hakumen like a flies to a moth lantern.

[BlackYakuzu94]

This is why I always go to Arcade, they can't escape me once they lock in.

[Speakeasy]

I only read the last few pages of this thread, but what is it about CP Hakumen that's got everyone's knickers in a twist? Was he really changed that drastically from Extend?

[BlackYakuzu94]

I only read the last few pages of this thread, but what is it about CP Hakumen that's got everyone's knickers in a twist? Was he really changed that drastically from Extend?

Basically, people hate how much of a damage buff he's gotten, and how good of an approach tool Agito is.

So their solution is to beat him with the nerf stick.

[Speakeasy]

Standard fare, then. Is the outrage justified, in the opinions of people that have actually played Chronophantasma? I haven't even looked up videos of it because I'm waiting for the US release to play and don't want months of looking at stuff I can't do yet.

[edollarports]

Nah, as far as I can tell, most people don't care too much about haku. He went from Extend's 'boring all-around great character' to 'boring all-around solid character with occasional bursts of loldamage'. Some people just like to talk.

As far as the air meter gain nerf it's because the jump loop looked stupid and offended everyone

Disclaimer: I don't actually play this game