[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[BlackYakuzu94]

Oh yea, that's the one consistent thing about this series, retarded air grabs.

[BlackYakuzu94]

So let's see now:

 

 

- Zantetsu is still good

- Counters are now special/super cancellable

- 4C has faster startup, and may have lost it's charge function

- Counter>Enma seems to move slightly farther

- Enma no long Jump cancellable.

 

 

 

 

I really like the counter change honestly, it finally gives them more utility even if we don't have 1f 6D anymore.

[entnervt]

I like the changes so far, something into enma>5C>kishuu>2C>loop could lead to solid dmg and, dependig on how many reps are possible, good corner carry. Zanshin specialcancellable can be devastating if proration is not toning down the dmg too much afterwards.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Well you can get 4k from 2D>Renka>zan so the proration looks better.

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[Kriegdrache]

I'm cautiously optimistic right now. These changes seem neat (enma not withstanding), but until we see more I honestly don't know what to say.

[BlackYakuzu94]

OH, we can do things like 5D/2D>Tk Tsubaki/Hotaru>stuff.

[Soviet Bear]

If D moves are now special cancellable without OD, I wonder if OD will get something (I doubt these are all the changes). Maybe D moves in OD are automatic Yukikaze :V

 

I really like these changes personally.

[BlackYakuzu94]

If D moves are now special cancellable without OD, I wonder if OD will get something (I doubt these are all the changes). Maybe D moves in OD are automatic Yukikaze :V

 

I really like these changes personally.

 

So basically he becomes Unlimited Hakumen.

[mAc Chaos]

I don't get the point of doing Yuki after a regular counter; why not just do Yukikaze as normal.

 

But the special cancels should be interesting. It's something they stubbornly resisted giving to Hakumen all the way from CT til now, because it would have been too ridiculous. But with the way his current counters are, they must have decided it wouldn't be a big deal.

[Soviet Bear]

3 Magatama > 5D > Yuki.

[Kikirin]

That and aside from potentially different damage / proration / properties, it might be considered to be relatively lower investment to confirm into Yukikaze off a D catch, versus blowing 50 meter upfront for the read.

[BlackYakuzu94]

And ya know, Yukikaze is still 1f while 5D isn't :V

 

 

Plus the opponent might be able to jc off of the catch if counters still work like they have been in CP so far. So yea, 5D>Yuki sounds gimmicky at best, real men mash those 236's like there's no tomorrow.

[Soviet Bear]

I think you can also factor in that you have the same super at 1f startup and 6f startup, so you can punish your opponent with the same (or similar) damage if he delays his attack because he expects a raw Yuki. It's basically an extra tool to condition your opponent.

 

I'm mostly interested in how this interacts with guard point moves. The 5D in the video last for quite a bit before it got cancelled into Yuki, without Hakumen reaching out for a grab. It could be just a projectile thing, but if you actually delay the grab as well when you do the Yuki cancel, it might happen later enough to hit Mu's DP for example.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Ugh, new game means new video and combo thread. Well, fresh start I guess.

[bakahyl]

I think you can also factor in that you have the same super at 1f startup and 6f startup, so you can punish your opponent with the same (or similar) damage if he delays his attack because he expects a raw Yuki. It's basically an extra tool to condition your opponent.

 

I'm mostly interested in how this interacts with guard point moves. The 5D in the video last for quite a bit before it got cancelled into Yuki, without Hakumen reaching out for a grab. It could be just a projectile thing, but if you actually delay the grab as well when you do the Yuki cancel, it might happen later enough to hit Mu's DP for example.

Problem is that Yukikaze's catch animation can't be dodged by jump cancelling an attack or by using a rapid cancel(well in most normal occasions, with a few exceptions like i know that Mu's dp with RC and a super jump can avoid yukikaze), unlike the catch animation of 5d. So i stil don't see the point , aside from a few more frames leniency to counter projectiles but that also gives the zoner more time to dodge your yukikaze followup

[mAc Chaos]

Yeah that's what I mean.

Unless it freezes them but without that then they'd have to just sit there and eat it.

Ugh, new game means new video and combo thread. Well, fresh start I guess.

I'll get to work on it soon enough. The combo thread anyway.

[Soviet Bear]

with a few exceptions like i know that Mu's dp with RC and a super jump can avoid yukikaze

 

Does she even need to do that? I thought Yuki went through her and she ignored damage regardless? Like I said in one of my previous posts, I doubt these are all the changes, so maybe there will be something more interesting when we see the character in action.

[bakahyl]

Does she even need to do that? I thought Yuki went through her regardless?

 

If Mu's dp and Yukikaze hit, then the followup of Yukikaze will trigger but Mu's is actually not frozen by Yukikaze's catch animation (blame her very strange properties on her dp). Normally she will still get hit because the unblockable followup will hit her during her recovery but if you RC her dp, it will give you enough time to super jump over the attack

 

I think you are mistaken about the clash between her dp and a regular hakumen counter. Both seem to cancel each other out although Mu's recovery is higher than Hakumen's (unless it was Hakumen's j.d)

 

 

Also back to the previous subject, Yukikaze's catch properties are superior to his regular drives as well (since it catches both high and lows)

[Soviet Bear]

Well, I guess the only practical use then is when you have 3 magatama and you do 5D for the fourth. I mean, I do that regularly with Shippu anyway. I wonder if they kept the "ignore proration Shippu" in Mugen, since it was in one of the loketests afaik.

[Chachaman]

m.youtube.com/watch?v=UxGc3_2IUX8

Here is the preview vid from Famitsu if you guys are wondering how canceling out of counter and other changes will look like.

[mAc Chaos]

Hey Chacha. I was wondering when I'd see you around here.

He looks like he'll be the same / good overall. Just minor changes unless these counter special cancels turn into something we didn't expect.

[Koopa_Klawz]

Well I heard 5/2D > Kishuu is suppose to be very useful vs zoners.

[Raziul]

That 4C buff looks pretty strong.

 

No long relegated to doing j.C ad nauseum!

[BlackYakuzu94]

I was wondering something, shouldn't the opponent have enough time to block the special follow up depending on the move caught? Catching Tsubaki's 5B with 5D>Renka didn't lead to a counter hit like it normally does with 5D>Enma.

[Schneider-X]

Just got a chance to look at the Hakumen changes.

 

The catch to yukikaze doesn't seem that useful if it doesn't freeze the opponent in place.  However being able to cancel a drive into shippu will be a great way to punish zoners.  It will still probably lose to multi hit moves but we just have to find the proper gaps to implement that in.

 

I'm wondering if Hotaru is the only way to get a full length OD in combos now.