[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[psycofang2]

I pretty much agree with this except I'd put Hazama Jin and Hakumen as S+ and Tao,Valk, Litchi as S and Ragna along the lines of Azrael. He's far from average from what I can see and can break 4k with 50 meter. And Blood Kain Idea now gives him substantially more health 2k-3k back when down to 15% health and deals a solid 5k to the opponent? If Carl is still seemingly a good character then why do people say he sucks so much?

So far ive seen very FEW jp players say that and that was along time ago, and americans are just mimicing it with the whole "abare" situation.

Basically he doesnt have set in stone set ups anymore and requires his CT mid combo to do some real damage making him somewhat reliant on it during combos, basically when he lands a hit he has to make it count more so than other characters. But from what ive seen hes still able to tear someones face off, its just not as easy as it has been. but again outside looking in so...

[BladeOfJustice7]

Yea it's true, he can't tear people's faces off as easily, at least in my opinion, neither can Azrael. Yes Azrael can deal substantial more damage than Ragna, but he loses more than huim when the opponent bursts from weakpoint hits, and Ragna more stable pressure on the entire cast than Azrael does. I'd personally put Ragna at A from what I've seen.

[dioxideUniversa]

i definitely would not put hakumen above characters like tao and valk just because he has super high damage but scrub here

[psycofang2]

i definitely would not put hakumen above characters like tao and valk just because he has super high damage but scrub here

But everyone else does.

so it must be true right?

Just ask everyone that doesnt play him!

[psycofang2]

Yea it's true, he can't tear people's faces off as easily, at least in my opinion, neither can Azrael. Yes Azrael can deal substantial more damage than Ragna, but he loses more than huim when the opponent bursts from weakpoint hits, and Ragna more stable pressure on the entire cast than Azrael does. I'd personally put Ragna at A from what I've seen.

though i would say Azreals mix up and mind games are superior to ragnas, his dash alone is a mind trip that screws with the reactions of the receiving end. also considering his high low game extends a bit further than ragnas. Higher reward and alot of his moves are very heavy and even some talk about quite a few of his attack having heavy + on block as well as being serious frame traps.

[Kakimori]

So...um...I'm kinda late to the party but I was looking at Hakumen changes and I guess they don't want him to be a counter character anymore?

So how does it work? You Zanshin their move, they block your counter...and...are...at...advantage?

Is he just supposed to be super offensive now with the crazy magatama gain?

[mAc Chaos]

You are at disadvantage if they block your counter. AWWWW YISSSSS

You're getting ahead of yourself with that whole "you Zanshin their move" thing though. Maybe if you can somehow start your 6D 30 frames early to catch their overhead, or they walk up to Hakumen point blank range.

[Kakimori]

AWajsfgaksfkajhfa

[mAc Chaos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnV3Rarvhco&t=8m10s

[Kakimori]

Okay. So Hakumen's new Drive is called Magatama. This makes me kinda sad...I'd much rather they had just tightened the active frames or something.

[Wander]

As long as the counters still nullify projectile oki, im fine with the nerfs.

[BladeOfJustice7]

As long as the counters still nullify projectile oki, im fine with the nerfs.

It still does but just not so ridiculously as it has up to CSEX.

[psycofang2]

doesnt it also give us a star simply because of counter activation?

[BladeOfJustice7]

Yup, once you land a successful counter, whether it hit the opponent or not, will give you one magatama.

[mAc Chaos]

How can you land the counter successfully if it didn't hit the opponent.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Sorry, I should be more clear:

Yup, once you land a successful counter activation, whether it hit the opponent or not, will give you one magatama.

When I say "activate" it refers to it countering something, it may not hit the opponent but the "grab" from the counter has been activated since something hit Hakumen during Zanshin's active frames. Like how Zanshin would be activated by countering one of Nu's swords fullscreen, but the grab itself that is activated didn't hit Nu because she was too far.

Nevertheless just because Zanshin's ability to be blocked now and having a significantly smaller hitbox, doesn't mean the opponent can autopilot around it during their block string. Also the ability to activate enma off any ground counter can lead to at least 3k depending on your meter. We also have the ability to cancel Zanshin catches with Shippu, which prorates MUCH better, now leading to damage slightly above 4k. So overall we need to be better at blocking but counters can lead into more explosive damage than ever before. And at least Zanshin can't be punished after it's been activated like some of Baiken's counters in AC.

Also the catch after a successfully activate Zanshin counter, is still invincible to attacks, but if you do enma (by pressing :a: after Zanshin has been activated) you can be hit out of that if say, the opponent put a projectile oki setup and is blocking. mAc posted a video of a Makoto laying a Comet Cannon for oki and hakumen went for an enma after Zanshin caught comet cannon, and he ended up eating a counter hit for doing that. So it's not just free autopilot willy-nilly damage.

[mAc Chaos]

Yeah I'll be relying on the Enma followup now probably.

As for the star gain, you're saying if we counter through Nu's sword super we'd get like 3 stars?

[dioxideUniversa]

tl;dr: yes

they switched the meter gain to a successful catch, from the previous successful attack

countering a projectile gives you 1 star even if you parried it from full screen. if there's enough frames on the projectile to parry three times, then you get three stars

as for counter's usefulness in general, i do not see it get blocked too often when it does get used in JP videos

Edited June 16, 2013 by dioxideUniversa

[mAc Chaos]

The range is the bigger nerf. I've seen it affect the Tager matchup.

I wonder if that means someone can RC and block after activating your counter, like people always try to do reflexively sometimes.

[psycofang2]

The range is the bigger nerf. I've seen it affect the Tager matchup.

I wonder if that means someone can RC and block after activating your counter, like people always try to do reflexively sometimes.

not too much since its virtually impossible to react to the auto guard-catch of the drive. that tager player really had to see it coming for him to jump barrier it and the few who are escaping it are escaping it for outside technical reasons and not their own reactional ability.

certain attacks can and will escape the drive but i see it more often that the range really doesnt matter too much, people are still getting hit by it you just cant depend on its absurd range anymore.

[BladeOfJustice7]

The range is the bigger nerf. I've seen it affect the Tager matchup.

Counter magnetism drive attacks and press "a" and proceed to do at least 3k for great justice.

Here is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=i8ifJwOiFvQ#t=282s

I wonder if that means someone can RC and block after activating your counter, like people always try to do reflexively sometimes.

Zanshin still activates immediately, so you can't reactively do that. You must proactively RC and most likely jump otherwise Hakumen will still catch you.

[mAc Chaos]

That magnetism is going to mess up my combos for a long time before I get used to it. The followup was way faster than I expected too. The question is which gatlings you can do it against.

For instance, Ragna does 5B > 5C, you counter the 5B. Would you be able to Enma in time or will 5C hit you.

[psycofang2]

That magnetism is going to mess up my combos for a long time before I get used to it. The followup was way faster than I expected too. The question is which gatlings you can do it against.

For instance, Ragna does 5B > 5C, you counter the 5B. Would you be able to Enma in time or will 5C hit you.

cant enma go under 5C?

ontop of that because of the way the drive hitstop works i think youll act before the person caught by the drive. you are canceling his drive directly from hitstop into an active attack, the fatal comes from hitting them out of the active frames of the attack that was countered no?

[Spark]

From the frame data it looks like enma(normal and counter) lost any form of invincibility in CP.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Enma had invincibility? I thought that was Kishuu.

Also, I notice that players usually do the Emma follow up off 2D & 6D, any reason not 5D?

Edited June 16, 2013 by BlackYakuzu94