[CS1] Noel Vermillion Combo Thread: Guns Should be Used as Melee Weapons

[MiraclePizza]

Update: Good as done. IMO this is more than a long enough list of practical combos that you would need for the remainder of the CS1 days. In CS2, any combo that uses 22C more than once either won't work or will become obsolete due to lower damage from the same move prorate. Expect to have to learn the 22B 6D combos assuming those weren't affected by any proration changes and such.

Combos were tested on Bang and some combos on a few other characters with different hitboxes. This matters mostly for some of the Haida combos which are hampered by awkward hitboxes. Otherwise, the combos I listed are what I believe to be the limits I can push combo proration. Noel's combos are generally fairly universal though, and since there are many character specific Haida options, I will leave it at what I have unless someone can provide more details.

Credits to Halcyone3, LunaKage, 7r17r1, 2GB Combo, Runis, wighti, and Chiizu for their contributions to this exceedingly long list of combos.

General notes:

- On crouching opponents, 5C and 2C will combo into 3C

- On counterhit, 5D, 4D, 2D, and j.D will all combo into d.6C. Although this isn't always easy to confirm (since the usual autoconfirm is d.6A), this is important to know for damage.

- On counterhit, 5C, 2C(1), 6C(1), and 6B will combo into 5D and 2D. They also combo into j.D. CH 6C (1) and CH 6B will combo into 6D but these are less important.

- j.B and j.C, when hit low enough (or on most counterhits), can combo into dashing 5A 6A 6C. A Very deep j.C counterhit can combo straight into 3C, but be careful on this one. On air CH you can combo into either a basic air combo or a 6C if you hit them low enough.

- Drive starters and followups that use the same input do not share repeat proration since they're technically different moves. This is just another tidbit to know for optimizing combos.

- Drive starters and followups also have different P1/P2. For example, combos starting from d.2D will lead to combos different from combos starting from 2D due to the much worse P1 on d.2D.

- Comboing an airborne opponent into j.D may require you to use sj.D sometimes (read: vs Hazama and Valkenhayn), which will often result in a cross up. Normal jump j.D is capable of crossing up as well and this is where it gets funky since these cross up situations actually depend on both timing and spacing. Crossing them up with j.D can be very useful for switching sides and putting them in the corner.

- Additionally, since drives generally have very loose cancel windows, make sure you time your d.6D input properly after your (s)j.D crossup. For example, if you input the d.6D for the cross up before you actually cross them up you will get a d.4D (which is the motion for d.6D prior to you crossing them up) even though you landed on the other side. This is because the game will read your input as if you already cancelled j.D into d.4D on the side you inputted it in and will therefore lock you into a d.4D regardless of which side you actually end up on.

- Comboing into j.D after a long combo may require you to delay the input a little bit after the jump or else they will airtech after the groundbounce. That will also happen after a long combo if they're too high in the air.

- j.D -> d.6D on Tager and Rachel will require a slight delay of the d.6D and/or j.D or else it will mysteriously whiff on two of the fattest hitboxes in the game. Also slightly tricky on Carl in some situations.

- If your combo has been going on for a while and you're still doing 66C 22B, hit them with the 22B as low to the ground as possible since many of the combos that involve long Haida loops require you to do so during the last reps of the loop.

- You can substitute d.5C j.D midscreen with d.5B d.5C IAD j.D for significantly more corner push. This will only work in select situations.

- Corner combo piece 66C 4D d.6C d.2D Spring Raid is impossible or infinitely more difficult on Lambda without omitting the d.2D.

- Aerial hit 6C -> 5D can be and often should be delayed if opponent is high enough (which is often the case).

- If you hit with 3C far enough where the 66C after the 22C is impossible, you can opt to RC the 22C to make up for the distance. In addition to the (sometimes) great damage, your meter gain from the combo will probably make up for the meter you spent on the RC anyways.

- You can continue your combo after 2C on a standing opponent with 2C RC dash 6A etc. Don't settle for puny damage when you could've spent meter to kill your opponent!

- In most situations, you can substitute whatever ender after your d.5C with j.D -> Fenrir. This is useful for getting more damage if you're midscreen and can't connect Fenrir from a Bloom Trigger. Doesn't work very easily or reliably on some characters though (from my experience, it can drop on Tsubaki), but aside from a few exceptions this is very easy to connect.

- When you're doing a 6C Throw 6C into a 22C, sometimes you may opt to delay the second 6C in order to get a lower and more stable juggle from the 22C. This is sometimes necessary after anything into the 214A 2B 6C combo situations.

- In or very near the corner, combo into aerial hit Bloom Trigger (wallbounce) will almost always allow a combo into Fenrir, so I won't list the corner Bloom -> Fenrir in every single combo ending with Bloom.

- All of Noel's ground normals except 3C and drives will combo into Fenrir on a grounded opponent if you're close enough.

- 214A -> Fenrir is unburstable and works on Rachel and Tager.

- Comboing into either super after a corner Fenrir will not work in many combos, usually in those in which you hit Bloom Trigger twice.

- Easiest motion for dashing Fenrir is 6321466D. Learn this so you can do Bloom -> Fenrir when you're slightly away from the corner.

- After a corner Fenrir, you can opt to 22B(xn)22C. If your opponent doesn't tech, you get a good amount of meter from all the hits and you will recover quickly enough to be at an advantage on neutral tech (this is what you want). If you time and space it to catch quickest possible roll forward, you can sometimes do a massive combo off it assuming you didn't mash on 22B too hard. Raw 22BC reset will net you a very easy 6K combo.

- On ground hit, 6A, 5B, 6B, 5C, and 6C all combo into TK Thor.

- Of course, Noel combos will vary depending on a number of things including ease of Haida loop and distance from the corner. The combos I list won't be 100% set in stone due to those factors so it's still up to you to understand Noel's combo theory since there are just so many possibilities. I will, however, list alternative combos to ones that involve 22B 22(B)C loops since some characters are, IMO, quite difficult to or just nearly impossible to loop midscreen (read: Hazama, Tsubaki).

- I should also mention that some characters sort of fall in-between in terms of how many times and how easily you can Haida loop them. I tested my Haida combos on Bang (one of the easiet to Haida loop) so for some characters you may not be able to get quite as many reps of Haida. You may also opt for 22B 22C on some characters instead of 22B 22BC.

General notations:

- Parenthethes () indicate optional additions.

- #D indicates drive starters and d.#D indicates drive followups.

- sj = superjump

- xxxx/xx = damage/meter

- RC = rapid cancel

- CH = counterhit

- IAD = instant air dash

Moves:

236A/B/C = Optic Barrel

214A = Muzzle Flitter

j.236C = Revolver Blast

d.236D = Bloom Trigger

d.623D = Spring Raid

d.214D = Assault Through

632146D = Fenrir

j.236236D = Thor

214214C = astral

Special notes about d.5B in combos:

- The addition of d.5B in combos is for very near the corner or in the corner only!

- Depending on the distance to the corner, d.5B can come after d.6B or d.6D and will still allow you to combo into a two-hit Bloom Trigger.

- Expanding a bit on that, there are situations where d.6B -> d.5B -> d.5C will work but d.6B -> d.5C will not.

- Sometimes your opponent will only be in the corner after j.D d.6D. This is when you can do d.6D d.5B Bloom Trigger. In this situation, you will have to do dashing Fenrir (6321466D) on some characters since the addition of d.5B puts more distance between Noel and the opponent after the Bloom Trigger.

- d.6B -> d.5B and d.6D -> d.5B on Lambda and Tsubaki will most of the time require you to delay the d.5B or the second hit will miss.

- The corner xxxx/xx I list is usually for when the combos includes the additional d.5B.

--- 5A ---

Standing:

*5A 6A 6C will usually only work at very close ranges. Substitute 6C with 5C otherwise.

5A 6A 5C sj j.B j.C(n) j.B dj j.B j.C(n)

- Number of hits on the j.C's may vary. You can delay j.B slightly after the superjump to be able to get more hits on j.C.

5A 6A 6C j.D d.6D d.6B d.(5B) d.5C Bloom ~ 2155/27 midscreen, 2283/31 corner

- Easy 6C j.D combo.

5A 6A 6C delay 5D d.2D d.623D 6C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 2695/44 corner

5A 6A 6C (delay) 2D d.623D 6C Throw 6C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 2570/43 corner

- Corner only.

- 2nd variation is slightly more stable due to 6C j.D being at lower height.

5A 6A 6C 236A dash 6C 5D d.6B (d.5B) d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 2368/36 midscreen, 2462/40 corner

- Optic -> 6C for height adjustment so you can combo into 5D

Crouching:

*You can omit the 5B in these combos. If you're autoconfirming with 5A 5C then you can add a 22B to the 2nd rep of Haida in those variations since you didn't get the proration from 5B.

*5C can be substituted with 2C(1) but you'll get less damage.

5A 5B 5C 3C 22BC 66C 5D d.6B (d.5B) d.5C j.D d.6C Bloom ~ 2676/39 midscreen, 2774/43 corner

5A 5B 5C 3C 22BC 66C 2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 2818/45 midscreen

5A 5B 5C 3C 22BC 66C 2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 2882/49 corner

- Basic drive combos. 1st variation is easier. For 2nd and 3rd ones, delay either/both the first 66C and 2D to get a lower launch from d.623D

5A 5B 5C 3C 22BC 66C 22B 22BC 66C 22B 22C 66C 5D d.6B d.5C j.D d.6C Bloom ~ 2997/51 midscreen

5A 5B 5C 3C 22BC [66C 22B 22BC] x2 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 3049/54 corner

- Works as long as you're in the corner by the time you do d.5B

5A 5B 5C 3C 22C 66C 4D Bloom 6C 22B 22BC 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 3087/54 corner

- Corner only.

--- 2A ---

Standing:

2A 2B 6A 5C sj j.B j.C(n) j.B dj j.B (j.C) ~ ~1600/19

- Same idea as the sj combo from 5A.

2A 2B 6A 6C sj.D d.6D d.6B d.5C Bloom ~ 1916/28 midscreen, 2022/32 corner

- Point blank range with dashing momentum only!

Crouching:

2A 5B 5C 3C etc.

- Virtually the same as the 5A combos. Just replace 5A with 2A. You can also replace 5B with 2B. 2A and 2B both have very slightly worse proration than 5A and 5B, respectively, but you can still for the most part do the rest of the combo the same way.

--- 6A ---

Standing/Aerial:

6A 6C 236A 66C delay 2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 2662/41 midscreen

6A 6C 236A 66C delay 2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 2725/45 corner

-Basic drive combos

6A 5C sj etc.

- For certain air hits, opponent may be too high for 6C.

6A CH IAD j.C land 6C j.D d.6D d.6B (d.5B) d.5C Bloom ~ 2369/30 midscreen, 2463/33 corner

- Most likely not optimized, but I'll list this as the most stable combo since CH 6A can have so many varying factors.

--- 5B ---

Standing:

5B CH 3C etc.

- Counterhit only

Crouching:

5B 5C 3C 22BC delay 2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 3323/44 midscreen

5B 5C 3C 22BC delay 5D d.2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 3525/51 corner

- Basic drive combo

5B 5C 3C 22BC [66C 22B 22BC]x2 66C 5D d.6B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 3605/52 midscreen, 3674/56 corner

- Basic Haida loop combo.

--- 2B ---

Standing:

2B 6A 6C (236A 6C) 5D d.6B (d.5B) d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 2289/36 midscreen, 2376/40 corner

- Omit the 236A 6C if you didn't have dashing momentum.

2B 6A 6C 4D Bloom (6)6C 5D d.6B d.5B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 2626/44 corner

- Sorry, this is really the best I could come up with. I tested this on Bang and the 4D will barely connect without dashing momentum so I don't really know where to go from here. You can always just do a poverty combo really. 2B can be such a tragic move sometimes.

--- 6B ---

6B 3C 22(B)C 66 5B/5C sj.B j.C j.B dj.B j.C j.236C

- Sometimes you're just too far for 66C and don't have or don't want to spend 50 meter to get the combo. In these situations just do this basic jump combo or any of her jump combo variations.

6B 3C 22BC 66C 5D d.6B d.5C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 3220/42

- Easiest combo ever. You can't possibly screw this up. Also works for 3C starter. You can switch the order between d.5C and d.6B if you want but careful not to develop bad muscle memory habits since in most of your combos you will be doing d.5C d.6B rather than the other way around.

6B 6C 2C(1) 3C 22BC [66C 22B 22BC]x2 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 3502/50 midscreen

6B 6C 2C(1) 3C 22BC [66C 22B 22BC]x2 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 3565/54 corner

- Example combos that use the 6B 6C hitconfirm. You'll generally lose damage and meter from doing 6B 6C 2C(1) 3C but it's a much easier hitconfirm than 6B 3C is. Use this only at close range though, since 6B has far more range than 6C does (pay attention to if your opponent was barrier blocking whatever move you may have thrown out before your 6B to push you back farther and such).

6B 3C 22BC [66C 22B 22BC]x3 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 3928/54 midscreen

6B 3C 22BC [66C 22B 22BC]x3 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 3986/58 corner

- Omit Haida reps when necessary for different characters.

6B 3C 22BC delay 66C delay 22C 66C delay 5D d.2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 3687/47 midscreen

6B 3C 22BC delay 66C delay 22C 66C delay 5D d.2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 3763/51 corner

6B 3C 22BC 66C 22B 22BC 66C 5D d.2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 3865/52 midscreen

6B 3C 22BC 66C 22B 22BC 66C 5D d.2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 3927/56 corner

- Non Haida combo. Omit 5D to make it easier.

6B 3C 22BC 66C 4D Bloom 6C delay 5D d.2D d.623D 6C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 4002/56 corner

6B 3C 22BC 6C 22B 22BC 66C 4D Bloom 6C 22B 22BC 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 4054/60 corner

6B 3C 22C 66C 4D d.6C d.2D d.623D [6C Throw]x2 6C 5D d.6B d.5B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 4238/58 corner

- Corner only. Opt for 3rd variation on everyone except Lambda (as mentioned in the general notes). 1st variation is the easiest by far and the 2nd gains slightly more meter than the 3rd.

--- 5C ---

Counterhit:

5C 3C 22C [66C 22B 22BC]x3 66C 5D d.6B (d.5B) d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 3951/55 midscreen, 4013/59 corner

- If you do 22BC after 3C then the combo becomes very difficult without omitting one Haida loop or at least part of one.

- Also works on crouching hit 5C.

5C 5D d.6A d.6C 214A 2B 6C j.D d.6D d.5C Bloom ~ 3170/38 midscreen

5C 5D d.6A d.6C d.2D d.5D d.623D (6)6C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 5002/60 corner

- Good if you're too far to combo cleanly from a 3C. 5C starter drive combo prorates rather poorly though, so I wouldn't recommend trying to be too fancy here.

--- 3C ---

3C 22(B)C 66 5B/5C sj.B j.C j.B dj.B j.C j.236C

- Same thing as the 6B version, though off a 3C it's much more encouraged that you spend 50 meter to make up for the distance and get a good combo.

3C 22(B)C [66C 22B 22BC]x4 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 4934/56 midscreen

3C 22(B)C [66C 22B 22BC]x4 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 5002/60 corner

- Corner carry and big damage into shitty Blazblue oki.

3C 22(B)C 6C 22B 22BC 66C 4D Bloom 6C 22B 22(B)C 6C 22B 22BC 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 5123/65 corner

- Here's an important thing I should mention: this combo optimizes at around 3 reps of 6C 22B 22BC but you won't always be spaced correctly to do it conveniently, which means on some characters with narrower hitboxes or in certain spacing situations that put you too far from the corner, you may have to go straight into 66C 4D rather than doing a rep of 22B 22BC towards the start. On characters with wide hitboxes you can do up to 3 reps of 6C 22B 22BC after the 66C 4D Bloom so that means you can more or less always make up for the missing haida rep later in the combo. This applies to 6B 3C combos as well but there's a better way to optmize those already.

- Sometimes if you slide too far with 3C into the corner you may have to pick it up with 22C instead of 22BC since the 22B part will miss many characters at point blank in the corner.

- Damage/meter listed for if none of the hits are omitted.

- Corner only.

3C 22(B)C 66C 22C 66C 2D d.623D 66C Throw 66C 5D d.6B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 4364/47 midscreen

3C 22(B)C 66C 22C 66C 5D d.2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 4429/45 midscreen

- Midscreen non Haida variations.

- Double Fenrir in the corner is barely possible if you stick to the combo notation (don't add a d.5B or a throw whiff 6C) - depending on how you did your combo the last hit of your 2nd Fenrir will have minimum (2f) untechable time.

3C 22BC 66C 22B 6D d.6C d.2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 4982/50 midscreen

3C 22BC 66C 22B 6D d.6C d.2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 5082/54 corner

- Keep in mind that for the 22B 6D, your 22B must hit high enough to give you more time for your 6D which means it's very spacing dependent. In other words, if you hit your 3C too far and you have to dash a longer distance to catch them, the 66C 22B may hit them too low in the air for you to have enough time to 6D. Otherwise, this is a great non-Haida combo to be doing as it is superior to its easier non-Haida counterparts. Beware, though, as this is extremely difficult/impossible on some characters (Lambda and Tsubaki being the top offenders).

3C 22BC 66C 5D d.5C delay d.6C d.2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5C Bloom ~ 4652/51 corner

- The d.5C has years of untechable time so delay the d.6C as much as you can or Spring Raid will miss.

- This is a useful alternative if you're not confident about your spacing with Haida or just Haida in general on some characters, since this is probably one of the best combos that doesn't require very precise spacing.

3C 22BC 66C 4D 236D 6C 5D d.2D 623D 66C Throw 6C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 4921/58 corner

3C 22BC 66C 4D d.6C d.2D d.623D 6C j.D d.4D Bloom 6C 5D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 5241/60 corner

3C 22BC [6C 22B 22BC]x2 66C 4D d.6C d.2D d.623D 6C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 5247/64 corner

- Corner Only. 1st one is the easiest. 1st and 2nd variations do not require Haida looping.

3C 22BC (6)6C(2) Thor *long dash* 6C 4D Bloom 66C 5D d.6B d.5B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 5543/+9-50+43 corner

- Corner only.

- Damage is based on getting all hits of Thor to hit, but it's not pivotal to maximizing damage because each hit of Thor has some minimal proration anyways. Keep in mind though, if you build up to 50 meter just as you do Thor, you won't end up with 50 meter by the end of the combo.

Edited December 28, 2010 by MiraclePizza

[MiraclePizza]

--- 5D ---

Standing:

5D d.6A d.6C 214A 2B 6C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 3487/38 midscreen

5D d.6A d.6C 214A 2B 6C Throw 6C 22C 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 3740/43 midscreen

5D d.6A d.6C 214A 2B 6C Throw 6C 22C 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 3817/47 corner

- 1st variation is much easier and works on Hazama and Hakumen. 6C throw whiff 6C will not work on those two without either a dashing 2B(?) or a fatal counter. use sj.D for Hazama.

5D d.6A d.6C d.2D d.5D d.623D 66C 4D Bloom 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 3951/58 corner

- Corner only.

Crouching:

5D d.6A d.6C d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 3282/38 midscreen

5D d.6A d.6C d.623D 6C 4D Bloom 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 3645/51 corner

5D d.6A d.6C d.2D d.623D 66C 4D Bloom 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 3730/53 corner

- Use the 3rd variation when you're in the corner. 2D and d.2D will always cross up on crouchers.

Counterhit:

*5D will force standing on CH

5D CH d.6C 214A 2B 6C 22B 22C [66C 22B 22BC]x2 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 4731/56 midscreen

5D CH d.6C 214A 2B 6C 22B 22C [66C 22B 22BC]x2 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 4791/60 corner

- Character specific! 2B 6C 22B will not work on everyone!

5D CH d.6C 214A 2B 6C Throw [66C 22C]x3 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 4329/46 midscreen

- Corner variation is the same usual changes so I'm not gonna test that. Omit 66C 22C loops as needed. This will work on certain characters that can be a pain in the ass too 22B 22BC loop.

5D CH reload 3C 22BC [66C 22B 22BC]x2 66C 2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 4565/50 midscreen

5D CH reload 3C 22BC [66C 22B 22BC]x2 66C 2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 4767/54 corner

5D CH reload 3C 22BC [66C 22B 22BC]x3 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 4702/55 midscreen

5D CH reload 3C 22BC [66C 22B 22BC]x3 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 4773/59 corner

5D CH reload 3C 22BC [66C 22B 22BC]x4 66C j.D d.6D (d.6B d.5B d.5C) Bloom 4748/55 midscreen, 4926/66 corner

- 5D reload combos.

- The 2D d.623D variations are actually harder because the 66C j.D d.6D after it is unnaturally difficult in this combo.

5D CH d.6C d.6D d.2D d.623D 66C j.D d.5D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 4363/43 midscreen

5D CH reload dash 2D d.5D d.6A d.6C 214A 2B 6C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 4019/45 midscreen

- Easy alternatives on Tsubaki/Hazama/Makoto/Valkenhayn or anyone else with hitboxes too douchy to combo easily with Haida. These do not utilize 22B or 22C at all.

5D CH d.6C d.2D d.623D 66C 4D Bloom 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 4668/53 corner

- Same as non-CH corner combo without the d.6A.

--- 2D ---

Standing:

2D d.6A d.6C 214A 2B 6C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 3501/38 midscreen

2D d.6A d.6C 214A 2B 6C Throw 6C 22C 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 3769/43 midscreen

2D d.6A d.6C 214A 2B 6C Throw 6C 22C 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 3851/47 corner

- Pretty much the same as the 5D combos.

2D d.6A d.6C d.2D d.623D 66C 4D Bloom 66C 5D d.6B d.5B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 4064/58 corner

- Slightly better than its 5D counterpart since you get the extra 5D in there.

Crouching:

2D d.6A d.6C d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 3288/37 midscreen

2D d.6A d.6C d.623D 6C 4D Bloom 66C 5D d.6B d.5B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 3528/53 corner

2D d.6A d.6C d.2D d.623D 66C 4D Bloom 66C 5D d.6B d.5B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 3542/54 corner

-3rd Variation will sometimes work if you switched sides with your 2D starter and put them into the corner.

Counterhit:

2D CH d.6C 214A 2B 6C Throw 6C 22C 66C delay 5D d.6B d.5B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 4365/45 midscreen

- More of the same idea.

2D CH d.6C d.2D d.5D d.623D 66C 4D Bloom 66C 5D d.6B d.5B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 4736/58 corner

- Corner only.

- Omit the d.2D if you're close enough to cross them up.

--- 4D ---

Normal Hit:

4D d.5A d.5D d.6A d.6C 214A 2B 6C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 3721/43 midscreen

4D d.5A d.5D d.6A d.6C 214A 2B 6C sj.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 3785/47 corner

- In the corner the sj.D will put them back into the corner after 214A.

Counterhit:

4D FC d.6C 214A 2B 6C [22B 22BC 66C]x4 5D d.6B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 5134/68

- Challenge combo #10. In case you haven't done this one yet, just know that you should hit the last 66C LOW and do the 5D LATE but not too late because of how heavily this combo prorates.

4D FC d.6C 214A 2B 6C Throw 6C slight delay 22C [66C 22C]x5 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 4623/53 midscreen

4D FC d.6C 214A 2B 6C 22C [66C 22C]x6 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 4711/53 midscreen

- I use these alternatives if I don't feel confident with 22B 22BC loops on certain characters. For the 2nd variation, 2B 6C 22C does not work on some characters I believe.

4D FC d.6C 214A 2B 6C Throw 6C slight delay 22C 66C delay 5D d.2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 4674/53 midscreen

- This one uses 22C only once. Works when 66C 22C loop doesn't work.

4D FC d.6C d.2D d.5D d.5C 2147A 2B 6C 22C 6C 2D 623D 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5C Bloom ~ 5300/58 midscreen

- You must input Muzzle Flitter as 2147A or it will not combo from d.5C. Modifying the combo to add d.5B in the corner will make the second hit of Bloom Trigger not combo.

- This is definitely one combo video combo that's worth learning as it is the most damaging 4D combo in general. Less meter gain than the full Haida combo though, but the main attraction here is that this one is universal and is usable midscreen.

4D FC d.6C d.2D d.5D d.623D 66A 6C Throw 6C 5D d.6B d.5B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 4862/54 corner

- You can use this when you score a 4D FC in the corner while facing the corner. 66A 6C Throw 6C may not always work so omit 66A 6C if necessary.

- Double Fenrir is possible after Bloom for 6.3k IF YOU OMIT ONE OR TWO HITS, probably either the 5D, 6A, or a 6C.

4D FC d.6C d.2D RC 3C 22C [66C 22B 22BC]x4 66C 5D d.6B (d.5B) d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 5905/-50+66 midscreen, 5959/-50+70 corner

- Remember, this has a net meter gain of 16 to 20 so if you're sitting on enough meter to get to 100 by the end of the combo, this is well worth it. Heck, even if you don't want to have 100 meter at neutral after your combo finishes you're still guaranteed to have at least 50 for a Fenrir.

--- j.4D ---

Standing:

j.4D d.6C 214A 2B 6C 22B 22C [66C 22B 22C]x2 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 4591/56 midscreen

j.4D d.6C 214A 2B 6C 22B 22C [66C 22B 22C]x2 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 4651/60 corner

j.4D d.6C 214A 2B 6C Throw 6C 22B 22C 66C 22B 22BC 66C 4D d.6B (d.5B) d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 4433/54 midscreen, 4502/58 corner

- Well, at least this move is rewarding on hit.

j.4D d.6C d.2D d.5D d.623D 66C Throw 6C 4D Bloom 66C 5D d.6B d.5B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 4677/61 corner

- Corner only.

Crouching:

j.4D d.6C d.6D d.2D d.623D 66C j.D d.5D d.6B d.5C Bloom ~ 4222/43 midscreen

- I don't know a better one midscreen.

j.4D d.6C d.5D d.623D 66C 4D Bloom (6)6C 5D d.6B d.5B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 4366/56 corner

- You can replace d.5D with d.6D -> d.2D for slightly more damage and meter but you won't be able to Fenrir afterwards.

Counterhit:

j.4D FC d.6C 214A 2B 6C [22B 22BC 66C]x4 5D d.6B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 4810/69

- Same as 4D FC challenge combo #10.

--- 214A ---

214A 2B 6C [22B 22BC 66C]x3 5D d.6B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 4090/54

- Combo theory is still pretty much the same as most of her combos that go into 214A.

--- Throw ---

Midscreen:

Throw 214A 2B 6C 22B 22BC 66C 22B 22BC 66C 5D d.6B (d.5B) d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 3053/47 midscreen, 3120/51 corner

- Character specific.

Throw 214A 2B 6C slight Throw 6C 22C [66C 22C]x2 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 2747/39 midscreen

Throw 214A 2B 6C slight Throw 6C 22C [66C 22C]x2 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 2821/43 corner

- Omit one rep of 66C 22C on some characters.

Throw 214A 2B 6C 2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 2453/37 midscreen

Throw 214A 2B 6C 2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 2631/43 corner

- Delay the 2D to get it to work on Hazama.

Corner:

Throw 22(B)C 6C 22B 22BC 66C 4D Bloom 6C 22B 22BC 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 4402/58 corner

Throw 22BC 6C 22B 22BC 66C 4D Bloom 6C 22B 22BC (6)6C 5D d.6B d.5B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 4480/62 corner

Throw 22BC 6C 22B 22BC 66C 4D d.6C d.2D d.623D 6C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 4580/58 corner

Throw 22C 66C 4D d.6D d.2D d.623D 6C j.D d.4D Bloom 6C 5D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 4622/59 corner

Throw 22C 66C 4D d.6D d.2D d.623D [6C Throw]x4 5D d.6B d.5B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 4621/59 corner

- More or less the same idea as the 6B and 3C corner combos.

Throw 22C 66C 4D d.6C d.2D d.623D 6C Throw 6C Throw 6C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 4488/53 corner

- For Makoto and a lesser degree Hazama, whom the corner Haida loops are very unstable on.

Throw 22BC (6)6C(2) Thor *long dash* 6C 4D Bloom (6)6C 5D d.6B d.5B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 4906/+11-50+42 corner

- Corner only.

- Same double positive prorate combo as off of 3C.

Throw(3) dashing Fenrir delay dashing Fenrir ~ ~3500/-100 corner

- Corner only.

- If you don't have a burst for astral you can do this in the corner for 3.5k unburstable damage.

Airthrow:

Throw land 2B 6C 22B 22BC [66C 22B 22BC]x2 66C 5D d.6B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 3592/54 midscreen

- Character specific. Same idea as off ground throw but this one doesn't work if you add d.5B

Throw land 2B 6C slight Throw 6C 22C [66C 22C]x3 66C 5D d.6B (d.5B) d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 3195/44 midscreen, 3263/48 corner

- As usual, omit a rep of 66C 22C on some characters.

Throw land 2B 6C delay 5D d.2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.5C d.6B Bloom ~ 2976/41 midscreen

Throw land 2B 6C delay 5D d.2D d.623D 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 3045/45 corner

- Non Haida variations.

Throw land 2B 6C slight delay 4D Bloom 6C 22B 22BC 66C 5D d.6B d.5B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 3454/53 corner

- Corner only (after airthrow side switch).

- This works on some characters when you airthrow your opponent with your back to the corner.

--- Fenrir ---

Fenrir slight delay dashing Fenrir ~ ~3700/-100 corner

Fenrir slight delay TK Thor ~ ~3500/-100 corner

- Unburstable corner options.

Fenrir(1) RC dash 3C 22(B)C [66C 22B 22BC]x4 66C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 5235/-100+57 midscreen

- Basically, treat this as a 3C combo more or less and usually, as long as your combo is optimized enough, you will build back at least 50 meter by the end of it which lets you tack on another Fenrir for 6.1k. It might not be so convenient on some characters who are hard to Haida loop midscreen though, but just know that you can do some of her best combos off Fenrir(1) RC nontheless.

--- Thor ---

Thor slight delay Fenrir ~ ~3000/-100

- Around 3k unburstable damage from anywhere. If you delay the Fenrir a bit you will get more damage than if you didn't.

Thor(1) RC long dash 4D Bloom 6C 5D d.2D d.623D 6C Throw 6C Throw 6C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 4333/-100+50 corner

- In corner or near corner only. Outside of the corner you get a poverty ~3.5k drive combo.

- If you want to finish your combo with Fenrir afterwards, make sure you wait after the RC for as long as you can (while you're dashing into them and pushing them into the corner) before hitting them with 4D.

- Thor(2) RC works as well, though I actually don't know where the cutoff point is.

Thor(1) CH RC *wait until opponent hits the ground* 22C [66C 22B 22BC]x4 66C 5D d.6B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 5251/-100+57 midscreen

Thor(1) CH RC *wait until opponent hits the ground* 22C 66C 22B 22BC 66C 4D Bloom [6C 22B 22BC]x2 6C 5D d.6B d.5B d.5C j.D d.6D Bloom ~ 5459/-100+63 corner

- Input 22C slightly before they touch the ground.

- For the midscreen one you can actually do Haida x5 just to be fancy but you'll get slightly less damage and meter because you have to omit the 5D portion and just go straight into j.D d.6D.

- May not work if you hit them too high in the air. Also, it MUST be RC'd on the first hit since this move doesn't have CH carry.

Thor dash 6C 4D d.6C d.2D d.623D 6C Throw 6C j.D 6D 6B 5B 5C Bloom ~ ~5300/-100+45 corner

- Corner, outside 5C range, about IAD height only.

--- Astral ---

*For this I'll just give a list of things that combo into Astral. Just be careful to not troll yourself by doing this way too late in a long combo.

6A (corner CH)

6B (ground CH)

6C (air hit, ground CH)

5D/2D (CH)

6D

j.D (air hit, character specific)

d.6A (ground hit)

d.6C (ground hit) <----------- easiest astral confirm of your life

d.6B (CH)

d.5C (air hit, ground CH)

Ground throw

And lastly, for all you trollfaces out there:

--- 22C reset combo ---

22C 66C 4D Bloom 6C 5D d.2D d.623D 6C Throw 6C Throw 6C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ ~5157/61 corner

- Corner only.

- Example way to reset into 22C if your opponent is mashing neutral tech and don't plan to block: blah blah 3C 22C 5C (neutral tech) 22C hit

- No, this idea isn't practical but hey! reset into 6k!

- NOTE: THIS WILL ALSO WORK IF YOU CAUGHT THEM ROLLING IN THE CORNER (with either 22BC or 22C as the starter, it doesn't matter).

Edited December 3, 2010 by MiraclePizza

[LunaKage]

Just a heads up.

CH 5D > Reload > 66 > 2D > d.5D > d.6A > d.6C > 214A > 2B > 6C > j.D > d.6D > d.5C > d.6B > 236D does about 4k.

[Chiizu]

CH 5D > d.6C > d.6D > d.2D > 623D > 66C > j.D > d.5D > d.5C > d.6B > Bloom nets you between 4.2k and 4.4k damage midscreen depending on the number of times d.6C hits. In the corner make that 5.1k+ with fenrir, at the very least. Stable as can be and fairly easy 623D 66c link.

Also you might want to check Mizzet's sign for some more damaging universal, non haida loop reliant and resetable options on 4D FC.

Also, if you do double Fenrir or Fenrir > Bullet Storm at the end of a relatively long combo, most of the time the opponent can tech mid distortion so beware.

Edited November 5, 2010 by Chiizu

[Halcyone3]

3C

3C 22BC 66C 4D 236D 6C 5D d.2D 623D 66C Throw 6C j.D d.6D d.6B d.5B d.5C Bloom ~ 4921/58 corner

- Non Haida loop variation.

3C->22BC->66C->4D->d.6C->2D->623D->j.D->6D->4D->236D->6C(catch them fairly low)->5D->d.6B->d.5B->d.5C->236D ~ 5.2k+ corner. 6k+ with fenrir

if you dont catch them fairly low with the last 6C, some characters will tech the d.6B

[Chiizu]

You also have to catch them pretty low with the firt 66C or else the opponent will be able to tech before d.6C connects

[7r17r1]

If you hit them too high with the 66C you can delay the 4D so that the d.6C connect anyway

from 4D :

[3721] 4D 5A 5D 6A 6C 214A 2B 6C j.D 6D 5C 6B 236D

FC :

[5300] 4D 6C 2D 5D 5C 2147A 2B 6C 22C 6C 2D 623D 66C j.D 6D 6B 5C 236D

not really hard combo, high damage, easier to do than haida loop on some char, you may have to delay the first 6C (after 214A) on some, timing on 2D 623D is character specific

if you were cornered you can add fenrir for 6200 damage

Here some work I' ve done on Noel's drive:

Start up

Starters :

5D : 24

2D : 19 (23 on standing opponent)

6D : 26

4D : 25

j.D : 17

j.4D : 15 after landing

follow-ups :

5A : 13

6A : 18

5B : 17

6B : 21

5C : 21

6C : 23

5D : 20

2D : 19

6D : 26

4D : 25

Adv on block if cancelled earliest:

5D : +13 (14)

2D : +6 (5)

6D : +11 (3)

4D : +12 (11)

j.D : N/A

j.4D : +16 (24)

Follow ups :

5A : +8 (12)

6A : +15 (7)

5B : +15 (8)

6B : +13 (16)

5C : +10 (14)

6C : +22 (11)

5D : +13 (15)

2D : +6 (5)

6D : +11 (3)

4D : +12 (11)

start up and frame advantage

236D 20 -13

214D 31 -9

623D 8 -34

the number parenthesis are the amount of frame you can delay the next follow up

Edited November 6, 2010 by 7r17r1

[dragontamer]

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?9432-Chain-Revoler-Pressure-Discussion

Ahem >_<

6C +23 Frames !! (at the "sweetpoint")

j.4D +16 Frames

6A +15 Frames

5B +15 Frames

6B +13 Frames

5D / Followup 5D +13 Frames

4D / Followup 4D +12Frames

6D / Followup 6D +11 Frames

5C +10 Frames

5A +8 Frames

2D +6 Frames

Its good to compare our lists for integrity of course. d.6C -> d.5B is solid on instant-block at the sweetspot, which implies +18 (d.5B startup) + 5 (instantblock).

[7r17r1]

I've redone the calcul, I find the same result again

Still, drive start up of d.5B in the dustloop's frame data is 17, so d.6C > d.5B is still solid on instant block

anyway, your older post is better than mine, there are more explanations :p

Edited November 5, 2010 by 7r17r1

[FunkyP]

corner throw haida does not work straight up on some characters(makoto mainly, hazama is really difficult to get more than one rep)

Corner throw, 22bc, 66c, 4d, d.6c, d.2d, 623d, 6c, sj.d, d.6d, d.6b, d.5b, d.5c, 236d, (Fenrir). Does like 4.5k(5.3k), works on makoto and haz, as well as most of the cast.

[bmore303]

Since some players can't seem to put some properties together I'd mention Noel's gatlings in this post. Annoying to meet players who simply try to input the same combo string regardless of your superior blocking.

Also here's a Non-Haida 3C mid-screen

3C , 22B~C, 66C, 5D, 2D, 623D, 66C, j.c , j.D , d.6D , d.6B, d.5C. ,d.6A(I interchange this move a lot depending on situation) , 236D. end. if pushed to corner 632146D , 22C 4.3k iirc or 5k+

Edited November 5, 2010 by bmore303

[LunaKage]

Since some players can't seem to put some properties together I'd mention Noel's gatlings in this post. Annoying to meet players who simply try to input the same combo string regardless of your superior blocking.

Also here's a Non-Haida 3C mid-screen

3C , 22B~C, 66C, 5D, 2D, 623D, 66C, j.c , j.D , d.6D , d.6B, d.5C. ,d.6A(I interchange this move a lot depending on situation) , 236D. end. if pushed to corner 632146D , 22C 4.3k iirc or 5k+

you can omit the final d.6A for the same damage if you switch around the moves before it:

j.D > d.6D > d.5C > d.6B > 236D

For some reason it does about 100 more damage than if you do d6B > d.5C, maybe d.5C prorates less or something.

[bmore303]

True, I never understood the proration on Noel's combo's, doesn't quite make sense to me. If anything I can typically guarantee a 66C if Fenrir is used and pull off an easy throw reject miss in the air for the reset.

[LunaKage]

True, I never understood the proration on Noel's combo's, doesn't quite make sense to me. If anything I can typically guarantee a 66C if Fenrir is used and pull off an easy throw reject miss in the air for the reset.

Another possible reset, if you don't want the shame of the blue beat that a purple throw gives you:

Bloom Trigger > 6C > j.A > Opponent Techs > Air Grab/dj. Air Grab.

if you double jump to air grab it will catch opponents who air tech forward or backward, if you don't double jump to grab it will catch opponents who Neutral tech or don't tech at all, though if they don't tech it will still be a purple grab.

[bmore303]

Lol great minds think alike .

Of course if you trained the opponent to look for the grab you can delay the jump and go for a short basic air combo. Noel shenanigans, they exist...just not in block strings =( . Hell I caught someone with a j.a -pause- j.4d fatal offline.

[LunaKage]

Lol great minds think alike .

Of course if you trained the opponent to look for the grab you can delay the jump and go for a short basic air combo. Noel shenanigans, they exist...just not in block strings =( . Hell I caught someone with a j.a -pause- j.4d fatal offline.

I tend to forget j.4D exists, I can't wait until it's useful, I can't stand letting a move go to waste.

Though J.4D has to be the way to nail Tager after jumping over 720, I just forget she has it :P.

[MiraclePizza]

Added/changed a few things. Also, I only plan to focus on combos. I guess I should've been more clear that by "guide" I meant "combo guide", my bad.

Also,

FC :

[5300] 4D 6C 2D 5D 2147A 2B 6C 22C 6C 2D 623D 66C j.D 6D 6B 5C 236D

I'm probably just being a scrub again but how exactly does this work?

Edited November 6, 2010 by MiraclePizza

[LunaKage]

Added/changed a few things. Also, I only plan to focus on combos. I guess I should've been more clear that by "guide" I meant "combo guide", my bad.

It's cool, kinda my fault for going off topic, I'll be cool with people talking about options after a combo, you don't need to include them in the main post though, we will probably save that for the CS1 guide, if you want to change the name to "Guns should be used as Melee Weapons: Noel Vermillion CS1 Combos" that would probably be for the best.

[MiraclePizza]

I can only change the title. It's up to you to change the actual topic name.

[LunaKage]

I can only change the title. It's up to you to change the actual topic name.

Done and Done, didn't know you couldn't do it, oh well, problem solved :P

[bmore303]

I'm probably just being a scrub again but how exactly does this work?

Because 4D causes a Fatal Counter it should cause tech time to increase allowing some attacks to string together that usually wouldn't in that fashion. Personally never tried this one, I'll try to give it a whirl tonight if I stay sober.

[LunaKage]

Also,

I'm probably just being a scrub again but how exactly does this work?

It doesn't, the "2147A" is a jump install, and wont work because the 5D isn't jump cancelable.

[2 GB Combo]

RC'less air super combo in the corner only.

Thor dash 6C 4D d.6C 2D 623D 6C B+C 6C j.D 6D d.6B d.5B d.5C 236D [5.3k/6.2k with fenrir]

In order to connect dash 6C after air super, you have to be:

1. outside 5C range

2. Around iad height(this changes slightly depending on how far you are)

I guess this combo is somewhat practical if you have good yomi and can do psychic air supers.

Edited November 6, 2010 by 2 GB Combo

[Runis]

All the stuff I've found and documented.

Corner stuffs-

Throw 22BC 6C 22B 22C 66C 4D 6C 2D 623D 6C sjc jD 6D 6B 5B 5C 236D Fenrir

3C 22BC 66C 4D 6C 2D 623D sjc jD 4D 236D 6C 5D 6B 5B 5C 236D Fenrir

3C 22BC (22B 22C 6C)x2 4D 6C 2D 623D 6C sjc jD 6D 6B 5B 5C 236D Fenrir

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtKeFt2beOo

3C drive alternatives

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90vjnLdjV2A

CH 5D reload

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBEMEBQSWVs

IAD jD so you can fenrir from further than corner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WsUC2xzI_8

Edited November 6, 2010 by Runis

[bmore303]

5D definitely doesn't combo into muzzle flitter even with fatal . No go.