STenSatsu Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 Wouldn't mind easier to punish forward rolls, less distance gained on back rolls, a removal of the quick-getup, and having to decide quicker. Or a combination of some of those things. Removing the ability to go through people with forward roll would remove practically all its usage though imo.
WolfCrimson Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 Also, there is a difference between advantage, and having the ability to guess right. Complexity and number of options DOES NOT yield depth. There is an extensive article about depth and options on Sirlin.net that might be worth a read. That is true, that in and of itself, complexity and options do not yield depth, but I also mentioned that, like you said, the options need to interact and make sense with the situation. Like you said, adding dynamite to RPS doesn't make sense. You are right about the current techroll system, turns out I was wrong. I just went back to training mode and set 'Wake-up' to 'Random', and it was just guessing, like you said. Funny, when I was trying to recall it when typing my previous post, I thought it was kinda ok, turns out it wasn't. In concept, it could work, just needs a few adjustments. Also, yes, different games have different rules, but FG's are not so dissimilar as not to use them as a point of comparison to one and other. True.
faultydefense Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 Wouldn't mind easier to punish forward rolls, less distance gained on back rolls, a removal of the quick-getup, and having to decide quicker. Or a combination of some of those things. Removing the ability to go through people with forward roll would remove practically all its usage though imo. go under jump ins/air dash pressure, same way fadc dashes will get u out of some cross-ups other than that it'd be about as stupid as forward rolling in tekken...and i'd be fine with that
Osuna Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 Your just mean eirei. I'm just glad tager has repeatable pressure now.Really? When did he get that? The IB change wouldn't give him repeatable pressure. You need to be plus to get repeatable pressure, off Asledge we'd be at best -4 on IB with the current changes. That's not even close enough to even to 360A most jabs. It's really only one frame closer to repeatable pressure than an IBed 4D was in CS1. Where if you pressed a button or tried to jump it would lose to 5A for sure. Besides that being at even we wouldn't be able to restart pressure anyway because our 5A is way too slow. We'd get a mix up, kinda though. Though I kinda hope they did fix A sledge up and I just didn't see t yet.
Leaf Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 they still need to add animu pics to everyone's DDs like Makoto
Darlos9D Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 Wouldn't mind easier to punish forward rolls, less distance gained on back rolls, a removal of the quick-getup, and having to decide quicker. Or a combination of some of those things. Removing the ability to go through people with forward roll would remove practically all its usage though imo. Guh. If they ditch the quick getup then I think Tager (and probably some other characters) is going to need some real freaking wakeup options besides "block" and "super." Where's my frame 1 invlun 360A/AC arksys? I'll agree with getting rid of invuln frames on rolling though. As well as making the back roll distance shorter. It's kinda balls that I can be right on top of a guy and do a 6C and they can roll out of range of it.
Zidane Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 (edited) Guh. If they ditch the quick getup then I think Tager (and probably some other characters) is going to need some real freaking wakeup options besides "block" and "super." BlazBlue: Where blocking is looked upon in disgust. Edit so Spirit Juice doesn't ban me god don't ban me: So how is it that system mechanic changes or new additions are known yet not some character changes? Why compile a list of system changes and not character changes? Edited November 19, 2010 by Zidane
faultydefense Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 i could make a list of 100 characters across multiple fighting games that have no choice but to "block or super" (maybe some universal options like backdash) tager isn't lonely... i seem to remember 3 characters doing just fine with that in CT...*cough rachel/ara/v-13* all of which could disregard opponents rolls and abuse the roll systems themselves despite having weak reversal options
Spirit Juice Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 BlazBlue: Where blocking is looked upon in disgust. Irrelevant since America doesn't block anyways.
Remiri Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 Guh. If they ditch the quick getup then I think Tager (and probably some other characters) is going to need some real freaking wakeup options besides "block" and "super." Where's my frame 1 invlun 360A/AC arksys? I'll agree with getting rid of invuln frames on rolling though. As well as making the back roll distance shorter. It's kinda balls that I can be right on top of a guy and do a 6C and they can roll out of range of it. You could just play ragna and save all of your meter for wakeup srks, if you don't have the meter then don't get knocked down. Problem solved!
WolfCrimson Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 My opinion on this is to add more recovery frames for backward roll and front roll, and decrease the distance for back roll by a bit.
Skye Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 Irrelevant since Norcal doesn't block anyways. Speak for your region.
Marisa Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 That is true, that in and of itself, complexity and options do not yield depth, but I also mentioned that, like you said, the options need to interact and make sense with the situation. Like you said, adding dynamite to RPS doesn't make sense. You are right about the current techroll system, turns out I was wrong. I just went back to training mode and set 'Wake-up' to 'Random', and it was just guessing, like you said. Funny, when I was trying to recall it when typing my previous post, I thought it was kinda ok, turns out it wasn't. In concept, it could work, just needs a few adjustments. Having the AI set to random isn't quite the same as having a live opponent though. I know when I tech I put a lot of quick calculation into play. "What can they do now?" "What does it look like they're planning?" etc etc. At the very least you can make an educated guess what a live opponent will do, since most of them will attempt to put themselves into a better situation. The system needs an overhaul, but it seems silly to base changes around what happens when the AI picks a random action.
Remiri Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 I think that you could reduce throw tech time as long as there is a window where if each player throws it will result in a tech. Reducing tech time in this game alone will just increase the amount of throw reject misses.
ZONG_one Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 I agree with remiri. or decrease both the throw reject miss window, AND the teching frames for throws.
Darlos9D Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 Okay fine so not every character needs a plethora of wakeup options, I get it. And in reality I don't really tech roll much at all, due to Tager's big hitbox just making it a liability. But why you gotta say things about my blocking? So cruel, people...
ZONG_one Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 Because you're american. And from FL. They block the least there, I here.
WolfCrimson Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 Are you guys still on about throws? Leave them as they are already.
Darlos9D Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 Maaan, I've only been here a year. I'm originally from NC. Well actually I'm originally from NY, but I moved away from there before I was 10 and didn't even know what a fighting game was at that point. Still, I'm sure I'm tainted or something.
Remiri Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 My beef with throws is that the concept of high,low,throw should result in a Rock Paper Scissors fight with the attacker and the blocker. If you attack high and I block high, then I block. If you attack low and I block low, then I block. If you throw me and I throw, then in BB it creates yet ANOTHER RPS situation If attacker throws and I am going to throw tech ( blocker throws before thrower = reject miss if purple or I put the thrower in this RPS because my throw came out b4 his blocker throws exactly the same time as me or an iota after = throw counter rofl(THIS IS THE PROBLEM) blocker reacts to the throw and techs = throw tech ) In a perfect BB world, if I throw because I know they will throw, it should result in a different style of tech. Perhaps make a yellow '!' and both players get knocked back. Give this a few frames of the reject miss window, then put in ZONG's suggestion and you have a perfect balance.
WolfCrimson Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 I do tech throws... just not all the time.
Skye Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 I don't know what's with Americans and their throw teching, self loathing, masochistic snark. Japanese get hit by fucking purple throws. And overheads.
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