Arvoyea Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 Ok, seeing as what happened at Socal Regionals in BB:CS finals, there are some things a lot of us need to be aware of. And that is fighting game fundamentals. In the recent Socal Regionals, Tokido was able to win even with not much BB experience, and won mainly on his mastery of fundamentals and adaptation skills. The fact that the most we're good at is only combos and Blazblue specifics, but lacking in things we should have mastered first is a very scary thing to realize. So, I say: let's try to apply the fundamentals you would learn playing SF or KOF, and apply them to Blazblue's game play system, and also other fighting games with airdashing in them, like Guilty Gear and Melty Blood. Also, if anyone can share methods of practicing fundamentals in order to better one's self, that would be boss.
Ronove Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 (edited) - Play ST, learn fundamentals - or play 3s - or play GG you can learn proper spacing and fundamentals from any of these games, though ST is likely the best one since you have limited options (no parry, no airdashing or double jumps) forcing you to level up your ground game first and foremost. And, unless your character requires it (like say, Arakune) try to jump as less as possible and instead try to think about all of the ground options you have at all the ranges, what you can stagger at certain distances and whatnot. Don't use the frame data as a bible but more like a way to figure out at what extent a move can be effective. Certain pokes/moves may still be safe from max distance even if they're negative on block. This of course applies reversely when you're defending, knowing what your opponent is able to do from certain ranges (not just being limited to use a poke but knowing if they can walk back > get in > attack) to prevent to be caught again into an other combo when you're trying to escape. Know the real holes and know when the opponent is actually trying to fool around to condition you from picking what could be the most appropriate option. The rest comes with practice. You may even choose to not play any of these games and just train with BB, it's fine as long as you pay attention to all these details before going all-out on your opponent. [edit] forgot to say: it's also not a bad idea to have single elimination tournaments as well. Most (if not all) of the japanese players have developed strong fundamentals because they're put in an environment where they may be eliminated with just one single loss, they're forced to bring the best out of every little thing they can do. Having double bracket with best of 3 sets does not put the same kind of pressure. Edited December 1, 2010 by Ronove
bbq sauce Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 Wait.. Did you just make a thread about applying the basic fundamentals of fighting games to all fighting games, like it was a revolutionary idea??
Silfer Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 I bought SSFIV the other day to try it out, even though I absolutely despise the game I have to concede that it improved bits and pieces of my BB playstile. Mainly being pacient and staying more time on the ground. Its probably second nature for long time FG players, but BB being the first FG I actually sat down and learned, this is really good advice.
iora Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 Play a SF game. Purposely be crazy defensive. See how much you can win off blocking and punishing only. Have fun.
What Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 I always thought that the universal way to play 2d fighters was to intelligently poke your opponent and hitconfirm into a combo that puts your character in a favorable position to keep your pressure going. Look for patterns in your opponents blockstrings by blocking them and look for holes while also keeping in mind frame traps, etc. I guess just keep those things in mind and get some experience applying the fundamentals.
Silius Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 You don't play other games to get better at BB, you play BB to get better at BB. One thing you must always remember is to improve upon the things you're not good at, not sitting in training trying to learn a meaty new combo all the time. What good are combos if you never land them? Not good at spacing? Practice that. Not good at hit-confirming? Practice that. Not good at blocking? Practice that.
bbq sauce Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 Play a SF game. Purposely be crazy defensive. See how much you can win off blocking and punishing only. Have fun. No.
WolfCrimson Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 You don't play other games to get better at BB, you play BB to get better at BB. One thing you must always remember is to improve upon the things you're not good at, not sitting in training trying to learn a meaty new combo all the time. What good are combos if you never land them? Not good at spacing? Practice that. Not good at hit-confirming? Practice that. Not good at blocking? Practice that. I'd like to point out that I agree with the person I quoted, but I'd like to add a point he/she hasn't touched on: practicing with offline people. Don't be afraid to ask a friend who plays BB to help you improve your fundamentals. Beats the hell out of playing against the CPU AI, which does not do play like a normal person does. It's better to play against someone who has excellent fundamentals, so that they may tutor you. Even if you don't know anyone like that, you can still try to improve your fundamentals.
TheGreatReptar Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 You don't play other games to get better at BB, you play BB to get better at BB. One thing you must always remember is to improve upon the things you're not good at, not sitting in training trying to learn a meaty new combo all the time. What good are combos if you never land them? Not good at spacing? Practice that. Not good at hit-confirming? Practice that. Not good at blocking? Practice that. You'll get a lot better a lot faster at spacing and mind games if you play some Super Turbo, as that's just about all that game is. You're just isolating a component of fighting games when you play different ones. There's a lot more going on in Blazblue in terms of system mechanics so it can be harder to focus on individual aspects.
bbq sauce Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 ST will give you the foundation to build from, definitely. The problem is, if you don't already know OG ST players, or a place where they play, finding comp could be hard outside mabe GGPO.. Not sure how HDR differs, but, if it's like SF4, then most of the online comp will be garbage.
Mikeomak Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 I played street fighter first and it got me in the bad habit of guessing when to tech grabs instead of reacting to them. I don't see how playing Street Fighter is going to improve your BlazBlue play. They have many different fighting mechanics. SF is more pokes and turtley where BlazBlue is not so much. Why not just play BlazBlue to improve your game in Blazblue?
KayEff Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 Why not just play BlazBlue to improve your game in Blazblue? We wouldn't have a "dear netplayers" topic if it was that easy.
Kamui Moon Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 I played street fighter first and it got me in the bad habit of guessing when to tech grabs instead of reacting to them. I don't see how playing Street Fighter is going to improve your BlazBlue play. They have many different fighting mechanics. SF is more pokes and turtley where BlazBlue is not so much. Why not just play BlazBlue to improve your game in Blazblue? no one said anything about suck fighter 4. sf4 makes you suck worse at fighting games than playing bb. play st.
Hellmonkey Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 I played street fighter first and it got me in the bad habit of guessing when to tech grabs instead of reacting to them. I don't see how playing Street Fighter is going to improve your BlazBlue play. They have many different fighting mechanics. SF is more pokes and turtley where BlazBlue is not so much. Why not just play BlazBlue to improve your game in Blazblue? Teaching yourself to react to something like a tech grab doesn't really qualify as a fighting game fundamental. Knowing your spacing and utilizing all movement options available to you, realizing which situations are risky and how likely your move is to beat what they choose to do, managing your meter(s) (not as big a deal in BB..), picking up on choices the opponent uses to get in, stay in, or try and escape from you... these are things that you learn from actually thinking when you play, and are absent from most BB (and other fighting game) matches played outside Japan. Execution and reactions are things that come much more naturally once you have some fundamentals.
Lord Knight Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 Ok, seeing as what happened at Socal Regionals in BB:CS finals, there are some things a lot of us need to be aware of. And that is fighting game fundamentals. In the recent Socal Regionals, Tokido was able to win even with not much BB experience, and won mainly on his mastery of fundamentals and adaptation skills. The fact that the most we're good at is only combos and Blazblue specifics, but lacking in things we should have mastered first is a very scary thing to realize. So, I say: let's try to apply the fundamentals you would learn playing SF or KOF, and apply them to Blazblue's game play system, and also other fighting games with airdashing in them, like Guilty Gear and Melty Blood. Also, if anyone can share methods of practicing fundamentals in order to better one's self, that would be boss. Tokido's played BB but thats beside the point. . . The best way to "practice" fundamentals is to actively think about your own play. I don't think many players do this right now. That has nothing to do with playing other games.
Mikeomak Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 (edited) snip. All of these are in Blazblue too. What I'm saying I don't get is it seems like your all saying "if you want to get better at Blazblue fundamentals play SF." Why wouldn't you just learn your fundamentals in the game you are trying to get good at? I personally got better at fundamentals playing Blazblue than SF because SF seems a little more mash happy on wake-ups than BlazBlue, pokes seem more punishable, Predictability seems more punishable through IBing, and Mix-up seem harder to react to. Also, the wake up system seems a little more advanced with the tech system. (For the record, I'm not trying to bash either game. I think they are both good in their own way.) Edited December 1, 2010 by Mikeomak
Hellmonkey Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 Through the removal of okizeme and execution requirements blazblue is very lenient with players who lack fundamentals. Playing those older, harder games forces players to learn more quickly since they actually get punished. The average level of players in those games is significantly higher because of this as well.
bbq sauce Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 Tokido's played BB but thats beside the point. . . The best way to "practice" fundamentals is to actively think about your own play. I don't think many players do this right now. That has nothing to do with playing other games. The point being, your options are more limited in ST, it forces active thinking about your play and theirs, because there's no distractions to get caught up in like the big combo you x copied from your JP hero, or new mx up you learned.
Lord Knight Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 All of these are in Blazblue too. What I'm saying I don't get is it seems like your all saying "if you want to get better at Blazblue fundamentals play SF." Why wouldn't you just learn your fundamentals in the game you are trying to get good at? I personally got better at fundamentals playing Blazblue than SF because SF seems a little more mash happy on wake-ups than BlazBlue, pokes seem more punishable, Predictability seems more punishable through IBing, and Mix-up seem harder to react to. Also, the wake up system seems a little more advanced with the tech system. (For the record, I'm not trying to bash either game. I think they are both good in their own way.) You get better at Blazblue, by playing Blazblue. Playing another game won't do anything if getting better at BB is your goal.
skd Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 I agree, im going to go out on a limb and say i can do alot better in blazblue than most people who played fighting games since back in the day, and blazblue is the first game i really got competitive in. play blazblue to get good at blazblue. how2do?!
Mikeomak Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 You get better at Blazblue, by playing Blazblue. Playing another game won't do anything if getting better at BB is your goal. That was my point.
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