The process of learning a character (BB-oriented, but also a general question)

[HowlingDragoon]

Howlingdragon, who is it you're playing as? Perhaps the problem you are having is not so much learning combos as it is knowing what your normals do without even needing to think.

Oh, I know that's at least part of it. Tsubaki has a fairly complicated normal chain, and you have to be really spot-on with combo timing compared to some of the other characters I've tried. I totally didn't have the input down on the first actual combo in her Challenge Mode until last night, and by "having it down", I mean able to pull it out about 40% of the time without stressing, rather than like <10% while being really attentive.

So it's a little from both columns, really. Well, more like a lot from both columns. =P

[Manta]

Ah, Tsubaki, so many little inputs, so many normals and normal extension moves. Yeah, you're throwing yourself in the deep end in that regard. Go look at her frame data and weep at its length.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Manta

[lime93]

I know when I wanted to learn how to use Bang and Ragna, since I got tired of using Lambda all day, I learned all of their normals and watched people like Dora and Kaqn. It's simple to learn combos once you know a character's normal hits and you watch videos of good people play with the character you're learning and hit up training mode a lot. The hard thing for me was to build a strategy on how to use them in a real fight, that only comes with experience. Example: I can do most of Litchi's combos easily but I can't remember the last time I won a fight with her.

[Rhiya]

Input 22A during 214a, howling. The cancel window is bizarre and unusual, but not hard once you have the feel for it.

[HowlingDragoon]

Oh yeh, I got that down except for the need to polish my execution in general. The new one for me to be an idiot about is the S.Jump cancel in the following part of the Challenge. =P

[Rhiya]

I think people have already talked about that one in here a bit.

Also, standard advice: turn on your TV's game mode (if it has one and you haven't turned it on already), or try to play on a computer monitor or CRT screen. If your TV lags, learning some timings can be unnecessarily difficult.

[HowlingDragoon]

I think people have already talked about that one in here a bit.

Yea, it's like one thread down. It's just a matter of reflex/muscle memory, and my ability is nearly geriatric in that regard, or at least my learning-rate is. I simply need to dump an embarrassing amount of time into it to train my fingers to stop acting stupid.

BTW, I'm on a CRT TV so I don't have to worry 'bout that. Actually I'm on an 18-20' SDTV that won't even take component-cable input. It keeps pace with pretty much any output it can actually give me, but I have to pull the Widescreen Mode trick to even read words.

At least it's not fish-bowled. =P

[Rhiya]

Building exec takes time.

When I first started taking FGs seriously, it took me two hours to learn my VAkiha bnb -- not momiji, just normals -> launcher -> aircombo. Over time, my exec has gotten exponentially better, but it took effort.

Exec isn't free, so don't feel bad if you don't have it at first.

[HowlingDragoon]

When I first started taking FGs seriously, it took me two hours to learn my VAkiha bnb -- not momiji, just normals -> launcher -> aircombo. Over time, my exec has gotten exponentially better, but it took effort.

Heh, I'm talking more like two weeks of regular practice to learn basically the same stuff with over 50% consistency.

Either way, Tsubaki has tight enough combo requirements that just about everybody seems to be annoyed by it. It's not really something I feel bad about anymore even if I'm still polishing my 236A -> 214A -> 22A. Like, I can go on Ragna and start pulling off most of his shenanigans fairly well after 15 minutes following a 3-minute 'net combo reference. And I'm not even talking about the fact that I'm doing like 3-4x more damage that way. =P

What I'm trying to find/practice now is 3-4 move strings that require me to be on the ball, but are quick/simple enough that I can actually go online and play to relearn spacing, reflexes, etc while continuing this practice. Like, strings that are just barely enough for me to train my execution while learning the overall game, but strict enough atm that I really can't button-mash heat-of-the-moment style.

623C -> j.236A -> j.214B for example.

[the_difinitive]

To the people saying "I have trouble getting off autopilot because mashing gets me better results" i have something to say to you. I kinda skimmed through the second page so if this has been said, i'm sorry.

getting off autopilot is a long process but a WORTHWHILE one. you may get better results NOW by mashing, but you will gain FAR GREATER results by learning to not autopilot. you WILL LOSE more now, but that's okay, winning isn't everything. you have to lose now to win a lot later. you will get frustrated because thinking means you'll miss combos, miss punishes, get hit more, but it's worth it. you will get far far better than if you just autopilot forever.

soz if nobody cares. <3 you all.

[REAMS]

For me, learning combos and stuff/tricks takes a lot of time but applying them in real matches is even harder; I still suck in hit-confirm, for ex some time I get a Fatal counter my mind just went blank and I just pulled off a normal combos instead of high-damaged ones. My question is how do u guys improve your defence because Defense is sth that I cant practice in training model however due to my internet I just cant get to play more with people.

[Rhiya]

because Defense is sth that I cant practice in training mode

This is partially false. There are some things you can learn (how to IB in general, how to IB>DP) using the training dummy.

Also, if you can't play much, you can still do some delicious theoryfightan. Learning what moves gatling into overhead is a good defense-upper that doesn't necessarily require actually playing the game (though you need to know what the moves look like for this to be useful).

[MasterMind]

When it comes to improving your defense, one of the best things you can do is get familiar with every character's moveset. I'm not saying you need to spend hours in training move slaving over a hot combo, but you should know a little bit about each character's more popular moves. In particular, you should try to learn what each character's overheads and lows look like.

I'll give you an example of this as it applied to me. When Valkenhayn first came out for the 360, I had a hard time dealing with him. I didn't really know what his moves looked like so it came as a surprise when I found out the hard way that Nacht Rozen (a god damned uppercut) was an overhead that lead into at least a 4k combo. Point is, because I didn't have the character (and thus couldn't practice him) I had a really hard time against him. I had to learn everything about him by fighting other people. It wouldn've been much easier to block the mixup if I'd had the time to sit down and learn his moves.

[SanguineScale]

To the people saying "I have trouble getting off autopilot because mashing gets me better results" i have something to say to you. I kinda skimmed through the second page so if this has been said, i'm sorry.

getting off autopilot is a long process but a WORTHWHILE one. you may get better results NOW by mashing, but you will gain FAR GREATER results by learning to not autopilot. you WILL LOSE more now, but that's okay, winning isn't everything. you have to lose now to win a lot later. you will get frustrated because thinking means you'll miss combos, miss punishes, get hit more, but it's worth it. you will get far far better than if you just autopilot forever.

soz if nobody cares. <3 you all.

This post helped me a lot lol. I've been trying to play blazblue seriously for a while now and i know ill lose tons now, since im trying to think about everything i do, but it'll pay off eventually. Its just gonna take a lot of work gotta go practice now :P

[Shirohane]

I personally don't think it matters how long you've been playing fighting games.

I'd been a GG fan ever since GGX, and right up to Accent Core. Played often with some guys I met on dustloop, worked on my game until I was proud of my skills.

BB came out and I played it at the arcades with said GGAC players. None of us could combo but we were still able to put up a decent game.

I went back and continued playing GG until BBCS came out. Returned to said arcade, got my ass kicked.

Why? Because by that time everyone in the arcade could play well enough to trap me and finish me in a couple of combos. I couldn't do anything but watch myself be burst-baited and combo'd.

So if you're playing against stronger players it's painful to work your way up. This happens even after you've got BnB and combos because people already know how to screw with your head so you can't block without getting hit. You won't be able to zone your way into getting into a combo either.

At that point you need learn to get a poke in, which is nothing but practice.

[destruction_adv]

I'm no pro or anything but...I STILL haven't passed the "execution barrier" and drop combos all the time. I have like two combos I always land, and that's it. Yet I still manage to beat my combo usin' friends because I learned everything else first. I mean it takes me five combos to kill someone, but if they can't hit me how are they goingg to win. So I'd like to suggest learning how to do stuff other than combos first. Back when 5b-5c-214A-214D was my only combo and my friend had already beat challenge mode, I still won by doing things like dash brakeing and then instant blocking into a random Inferno Divider that try as I might I STILL CAN'T COMBO FROM! counter throws, and anti airs (now if I could get these freaking combos to work I'd be able to consider myself good.)

[Manta]

I'm no pro or anything but...I STILL haven't passed the "execution barrier" and drop combos all the time. I have like two combos I always land, and that's it. Yet I still manage to beat my combo usin' friends because I learned everything else first. I mean it takes me five combos to kill someone, but if they can't hit me how are they goingg to win. So I'd like to suggest learning how to do stuff other than combos first. Back when 5b-5c-214A-214D was my only combo and my friend had already beat challenge mode, I still won by doing things like dash brakeing and then instant blocking into a random Inferno Divider that try as I might I STILL CAN'T COMBO FROM! counter throws, and anti airs (now if I could get these freaking combos to work I'd be able to consider myself good.)

You appear to be someone coming at the game quite opposite to most netplayers, who know challenge mode combos but seem to not think about the matchup or the opponent. Ultimately they're tagerfood.

[Doktor]

The only thing I've learned (At least for me) is that spending hours in traning mode isn't the way to go.

Don't get me wrong, training mode is great, but I found that I spent hours trying to figure out how to do a few combos in training, and then couldn't actually pull them off in a real match.

Basically my strategy is to learn normals/command normals first: Combos are essential, but if you don't know the properties of the moves that you are using in said combos then you're at a disadvantage. Try a few fights relaying only on normals and very basic combos against the A.I

Next I focus on Special moves, this step might not take quite as long, but I still think it's better to learn the nuts and bolts of your big damage combos before actually putting the pieces together.

After that, BnB's making sure to practice execution and memorization, since I'm pretty horrible at this step, I'll work on one BnB for a while, then take it into an A.I fight and try to keep it consistent.

After the BnB's learn more advance combos, etc.

Watch videos of people playing high level matches while doing this, focusing less on the overall action and more on specific things that your character does that is effective.

Be patient, as I'm starting to learn, this game isn't like SSF4, if I'm anything like a normal player, it takes a long time to get good.

Emphasis on a long time.

As this is my second post, feel free to flame me for being wrong.