Marisa Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 So the risk for doing Vivace is low Being a downer again, but most of the sweeps are like Carl's, a counterhit makes them full knockdown and follow up combos become possible. Vivace puts you in counterhit state longer than the invuln frames, sweeps are easy to hitconfirm into combos so it's probably one of the least safe ways to escape pressure.
Akira-Shiro Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) Being a downer again, but most of the sweeps are like Carl's, a counterhit makes them full knockdown and follow up combos become possible. Vivace puts you in counterhit state longer than the invuln frames, sweeps are easy to hitconfirm into combos so it's probably one of the least safe ways to escape pressure. True but...... Trivia time, how often do people get hit out Vivace. I get hit off Bull Shit, Ill do Vivace & the person will swing & ill get hit while behind them. & il get hit by a sweep 5% of the time, regular moves with big ass Hitsbox's 95% of the time. Like i said before because of the none combo-able sweeps people will likely not do them during block stings, however they will go for thier low pokes. An if the are using their sweeps its most likely to bait Vivace. Ragna can only combo 3c>22c so he will have to be able to hit conferm a CH to a none-CH, & if he does he will need to pause after every 3C cause a none-CH 3C into 5DD= punished ragna so no its not easy Edited January 23, 2011 by Akira-Shiro
4Corners Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Akira might actually be on to something. I mean, some characters like (hahaha) Carl can put like... 15 billion lows into a blockstring, but for the most part you may be able to IB>viv b to get away near the end of blockstrings. If they use a sweep, you'll be fucked. Buuuut if you decide to not vivb and instead IB a sweep, then a lot of characters get boned hard. Of course, that's oversimplifying pressure in this game. We never really used vivb cuz viva is the shit (kinda). Well, I never did. If only they took out the stupid auto-correct for when you cross someone up. It'd be nice if you IB vivb and lambda didn't turn around with 5c or some shit without even knowing you were crossing up.
Adelheid Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 OH MY GASH!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNLde7WHXuo#t=11m17s I uh I can live with that being midscreen bnb, sure That makes me feel a lot better about losing 3C which makes me feel a lot better about Carl's offense But his defense is still... Egh. But eh, I'm used to playing characters with no defensive options anyway and in CS1 I rarely used Ada as a shield anyway, so, could be worse~
Zeero Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 I never really used vivb not because viva is better, but because the recovery was so bad that 90% of the time you can dodge stuff but they can still hit you afterward as most people don't end block strings with huge recovery moves. and it doesn't dodge lows.
Adelheid Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 I always felt VivaB was a good move for specific situations; it travels further than A and the invuln it does has is much longer, leading it to be more useful for escaping stuff like air pressure where you know no moves are going to hit low anyway.
4Corners Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 I'm thinking more along the lines of using it when you know the opponent will be doing a string of mids/highs. Course, with auto-turnaround, you never know what'll happen.
Akira-Shiro Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 Im not saying Viv-B is 100% safe..... >.> cause we all kno its not. But thanks to the not so useful lows it becomes just a bit more useful. An at the same time, most people probably wont dont bother trying to bait us cause its not like we taking hp like IB inferno divider. So they most likely just gonna let us get away with it instead of over analyse the way we play & actually catch us out at the risks of being punished themselves.
Marisa Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 I'm just curious if people will be able to sweep on reaction, we all know how awful VivB's recovery is.
Akira-Shiro Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 Yea & No cause if they in mid block string they will wiff, cause the way the trick works is Ragna for example 5B>2b>3c if u start blockin from 5B then u IB 2b ull Viv-B & get hit by 3c. But if he do 5B>6a>5C u block the 5B then u IB the 6a the 5c will wiff so they wont be able to recover fast enough to do the 3c cause 5c wiffed. But if u just do it 4 no reason then yeah they can react to it. Cause not everyone has easily gattin into there sweep. & even still most sweeps are pretty slow. Thats why i think IB viv-b will be pretty useful
killatrooper Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 Sheesh, some of the people in this thread... CT-CS1: Omg Carl is too dependent on Nirvana. Like, he's totally useless without her. CS2: Omg I can't believe they're trying to make Carl use Nirvana less. I for one am pretty hype about CS2. Even with Nirvana's health nerf, with the new j.C and 3D if you can catch your opponent in a combo while Nirvana is on full hp you can recycle through 2 resets and deal 10k+ damage with meter. The fact that j.C can lead into a mixup from almost anywhere on the screen, and that every sandwiched j.C>3D that hits can be followed up with a hard-to-blockable into another j.C>3D is a big deal imo. All the Carls giving up so quickly is really disappointing. I mean I think it's pretty apparent he won't end up low tier. So if you really only played Carl so that you could hit people with nirvana a lot during combos, go ahead and quit. Who needs ya. I find this new and interesting Carl exciting.
Akira-Shiro Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) Has anyone been able to play & try CS2 carl out at a Jap arcade ?.? Cause some of the haku & Rag players have. Not only that but did anyone ever bother to look at the 5th loktest...... >.< cause it clearly says "Vivace B now has complete invincibility, besides the few recovery frams" & "Vivace-A has no invincibility" so this whole time we have been debating weather its ok to risk it cause we might get hit..... But were safe from lows I knew sumthin was fishy cause iv seen some vids of carl dodging stuf i would have gotten hit by Edited January 31, 2011 by Akira-Shiro
Mascarpone Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Lok-test =/= Final Release so there it's not certain until proven.
Akira-Shiro Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Nooo the 5th has been declared the last by ark's
Marisa Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 It was my understanding that VivaceB's full invuln was removed for the Final Release. Pretty sure it was mentioned in the General forum in a CS2 changes thread. 5th loke-test was the last, but that doesn't mean that the 5th loke-test was the final product. There were further changes made after the 5th test.
TheEssWord Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1dY_11CS6E#t=1m13s Haven't seen this combo before, thought it was damn cool. Seems like you can hit with any move after cantabile now lol.
Zoogstin Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Yeah the 5th loketest was not the final product. Notice how Nirvana's defense and meter usage nerf came out of no where to all of us. TheEssWord: Yeah just so you know cantible is now untechable. So you can do a whole bunch of shenanigans. Although I have not seen that setup yet.
Mascarpone Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 i'm kind of amazed by the 2C vivace sj.B thing. kinda sexy lol. does 2C viv-a jb work in CS1? or did 2C maybe get a slight untech buff
Angel Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) does 2C viv-a jb work in CS1? On CH only, I think. EDIT: I was thinking of 2C > viv > 2C. So, I don't know. DX Edited January 31, 2011 by Angel
Zoogstin Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 In CS1 it worked off a ch 2C or j.B FCH into 2C
Akira-Shiro Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Could someone post a link to the last min changes, i checked the general discussion thread & found nuthing
Akira-Shiro Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) All of Ada's attacks take primers except 6D, 3D, & Volante Edited February 2, 2011 by Akira-Shiro
Kyle Posted February 2, 2011 Author Posted February 2, 2011 New UB set-up against Tager. Air Combo with Carl ending in Sj.B+C. Once tager breaks the throw Carl can do either 2]D[\3C or 3]D[\AirDash w/J.B. The timing is not a "perfect" unblockable, but Tager has to guess because the animations are off-screen. Also thought of doing this as my opponent is air blocking: [J.Ax5, Jump cancel, J.Ax5, Brio, Land]xN There's no mix-up or unblockable, but it will keep them aerial and eventually their barrier will deplete. Giving use 1.5 damage. It's possible in CS1 but the 8]D[ is too tempting.
Mascarpone Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 New UB set-up against Tager. Air Combo with Carl ending in Sj.B+C. Once tager breaks the throw Carl can do either 2]D[\3C or 3]D[\AirDash w/J.B. The timing is not a "perfect" unblockable, but Tager has to guess because the animations are off-screen. Also thought of doing this as my opponent is air blocking: [J.Ax5, Jump cancel, J.Ax5, Brio, Land]xN There's no mix-up or unblockable, but it will keep them aerial and eventually their barrier will deplete. Giving use 1.5 damage. It's possible in CS1 but the 8]D[ is too tempting. Brio also breaks primers so it might have merits after an opponent bursts. Just have to be ready to find a way to foloow up the stupid wall bounce from break. On that note, when you get the wall bounce from air guard crush, do they fly backwards or forwards? would be neat if you could follow up with the old cross-under 5.c j.b blahblahblah
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