JG Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Well you explain it like that, it makes a lot more sense why it was omitted. I'm still kinda bummed about it, if nothing else, I was more hyped that the theme would be my new favourite song. Marionette Purple reigns supreme it seems. Maybe I'll like it more when I see the matchup though? I felt the same about Nightmare Fiction til I saw good Ragna vs Haz gameplay while it was playing. With Ada's armor and meter being better, I think Carl can afford to be more aggressive. I want to wait and see if the extra meter is able to get us combos with comparable (if not more) damage to one the new 3D>IAD>jA etc loops. I dunno if we're gonna be seeing 2D in CON so much anymore since it looks like you have to backdash pretty far. It's not so bad that you can't combo it though, it just looks like you need a lot of space. 4D doesn't look bad at all to me so far. 2]D[ don´t look bad? now is kinda horrible for crossup, in my case i loved doing crossup with 2]D[ because you will be able to deal a great dmg after that. Now it seem if i even attempt to risk my self and do the right reset with 2]D[ as punishment for doing a crossup i will get no follow up. Friend, 4]D[ seem to be good... At least for me, it look like is more easy to do combos with it or is just too similar to Cs2 4]D[. Im pretty sure with that move we wild be able to get big dmg combos.
Rishtopher Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) 2]D[ don´t look bad? now is kinda horrible for crossup, in my case i loved doing crossup with 2]D[ because you will be able to deal a great dmg after that. Now it seem if i even attempt to risk my self and do the right reset with 2]D[ as punishment for doing a crossup i will get no follow up. Friend, 4]D[ seem to be good... At least for me, it look like is more easy to do combos with it or is just too similar to Cs2 4]D[. Im pretty sure with that move we wild be able to get big dmg combos. Ok, I just watched the Carl vs Valk vid and after 2]D[, Valk pretty much flies away, it takes almost 3 hops to catch him >__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hyJFgj6okR4#t=46s I THINK you might still be able to use it on a crossup but you're going to have to be pretty fast and already have the right amount of spacing when you start so that you can catch your opponent =\ EDIT: Man, I should learn to watch everything all the way through before I start saying anything >__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hyJFgj6okR4#t=146s In the same vid, he uses 2]D[ and he's able to easily catch Valk with B vivace. I know it's not a crossup at all, but I'm thinking that if you have Ada spaced really close in CON, you can use A vivace for a crossup for example and then B vivace back and still make it with maybe a hop as well. So like, I think it'll still work, but you'll need to be really fast to catch your opponent. I don't think it isn't doable. Edited October 10, 2011 by Rishtopher
Mascarpone Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 i think more so it's just that after a 2D cross up you probably cant to 2.jC alle_can 5c 4]d[ with as much ease as before. So to pick up you'd have to do what he's doing with the aircombo -> 8D hits. also i think as far as the legitimacy of the 3D reset goes, you should really only use it once in a string.
Afro-Demon Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWUM9c1CIHs&feature=player_detailpage#t=0s As for the attack during dash thing, you can see Carl around 7:41 doing a slight slide before doing some of his normals. While it may not be a fast overhead like we were hoping, this nicely adds to our pokes. May even help with 2]D[ cross ups if we cancel it into a Vivace B. I wonder how much distance that would get us. Also saw 6]D[ wall bounce mid combo around 5:04, but nothing much impressive done with it. As for Carl overall, I'm ok with how he might end up so far. I also don't see how the oki is so much worse. Sure, it doesn't put them in standing anymore, but we can still combo off of it, so that can still lead to emergency techs and such. It's not CS2 good, but it's much better than nothing like in CT and CS1. I'm still a little disappointed in the damage so far, but it's only like day 4, so Ill give it time. I hope we get to see some 6]D[ wall bounce and 6C ground bounce combo's in the near future. Edit: at around 7:50, Carl whiffs a j.2C on Tager's backdash and still manages to tech the throw afterward. Was this always possible, or did they decrease the recovery of whiffed j.2C? Edited October 10, 2011 by Afro-Demon
Mascarpone Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) Oh i see it now.. Actualy yeah that gives us a tad bit more range on or normals. I can see that being very handy. I wonder if it also cancels into grabs. <looking more> wow that actually -really- extends stuff o.O and... am i crazy or does it look like some of the momentum carries into 3C? Edited October 11, 2011 by Mascarpone
Zoogstin Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWUM9c1CIHs&feature=player_detailpage#t=0s As for the attack during dash thing, you can see Carl around 7:41 doing a slight slide before doing some of his normals. While it may not be a fast overhead like we were hoping, this nicely adds to our pokes. May even help with 2]D[ cross ups if we cancel it into a Vivace B. I wonder how much distance that would get us. Also saw 6]D[ wall bounce mid combo around 5:04, but nothing much impressive done with it. Carl was magnetized and Tager was pulling him in. That's why Carl slid.
Afro-Demon Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) Carl was magnetized and Tager was pulling him in. That's why Carl slid. That's what I thought at first too, but if you paid any attention, you'd realize he isn't magnetized. I don't see the sparks flying around him at all during that segment, and he's still at full health. I'm pretty sure even if he blocked it, a D Tager move would've have done some chip. I believe that's the dash thing they were talking about. I just hope it can cancel into more things than just normals. Edit: 6:25 of the same vid when he's fighting Bang he slides. Explain that one xD Edited October 11, 2011 by Afro-Demon
The Noble Clap Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) Objection! Carl slide in this video as well. http://m.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=en&client=mv-google&v=E8WZhbmMP4I Note that Tager has not connected a D move at 0:46 yet Carl still slides, and later does a sliding Bison sweep. EDIT: I'm too slow to technology. Fuck. Edited October 11, 2011 by The Noble Clap
Mascarpone Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 Yeah i looked again too. He's not magnitzed. He does it with a 2A against valkenhein too. So it's his ground normals that his dash cancels into, not his air ones.
Rishtopher Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 Hmmm, that makes it significantly less hype than I thought :\
Afro-Demon Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) I don't know, I kind of figured it'd end up something like this. Imagine if you could j.a from dash hop? It'd be almost an instant overhead. I wasn't expecting that to make it in, so the fact we get sliding normals now is kinda nice. I can imagine that could give some deceitful range to 6B and Viv B. I can also see this being used to protect nee-san from random pokes pretty well now. I'm just kinda worried about cantabile. It looks...slower. I saw it not quite combo Tager at the max range of 6B in that video. I don't know the time, but I know Carl ate a 720 because of it. I think the things we really need to look for right now are his high damage combo's and ways to make his oki 3]D[ worth quick teching to avoid. Edit: I couldn't find this anywhere, but what exactly are the specs on Nirvana's meter now? Is it really just moves takes less energy like in the loketests or did her actual meter get buffed in some way? I understand the regen is as slow as the Fernley Pizza Hut guy, but if the meter's got a decent tank size that shouldn't be to much of an issue. I mean hell, it'd almost be like CS1 again if he had it like that, which I'm pretty sure a lot of us liked back then. Edited October 11, 2011 by Afro-Demon
Rishtopher Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 I don't really see any practical use for a wavedash at the moment, but hopefully someone figures a good use for it. I don't know if you can cancel it into specials though, though that would be cool, I'm all for better range on vivace. About Cantabile, to me it just looks like he dropped the combo cuz he seemed like he was really close to me =\ One thing I'm wondering now is that if you summon Ada as you cantabile, is she summoned in front of you all the time? I just noticed that in the Carl vs Valk vid. Maybe it was that one time though, I guess I'll doublecheck later. Ada's meter has seemed to get a buff overall, but I don't think there are details on the specs yet. She has more armor and moves cost less it looks like. I think the regen is going to be the only problem here. Plus with all the vids I've seen don't have Carl turning off Ada, so maybe the timing is stricter on combos? I only have her on when I need her.
Mascarpone Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 Considering people use dash-a-gretto RC's for pressure/silly mix up and you seem to be able to cancel into all his normals form dash, lows included, I don't think it lacks function. It's just not something we'll be spamming like a 14 frame overhead dash j.a might be. if anything it allows for slightly easier punishing of people who like to poke at sister, since u can close the gap -> 5C easier this way. too bad 5C's stagger is ka-putski
Psykotik Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 I, too, am saddened by CH5C's lack of stagger. I guess from now on we'll really have to be on point when it comes to hit-confirms.
Mascarpone Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 I'm honestly not sure why all of carl's staggers (save for CH 6D) just kinda drifted away. was 6C that overpowered? and I've yet to see anyone attempt to use it in combo so i question the utility of it's new ground bounce.
Rishtopher Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 Considering people use dash-a-gretto RC's for pressure/silly mix up and you seem to be able to cancel into all his normals form dash, lows included, I don't think it lacks function. It's just not something we'll be spamming like a 14 frame overhead dash j.a might be. if anything it allows for slightly easier punishing of people who like to poke at sister, since u can close the gap -> 5C easier this way. too bad 5C's stagger is ka-putski But I mean, to me it only means that we can do what pretty much every other character could do. While I guess you could say it's a buff, I can't help but feel that it's kinda dumb that we're getting it now. I guess what I mean is I have this feeling of "too little, too late" about it? Still, you explained why it's useful so that's good enough for me. I wasn't aware of the 5C stagger being gone D: I get so many CHs on that! I'd forgotten about 6C actually =\ I'm wondering if RoM is isn't as good now since we can use 6C for the unblockable now? I've seen many chances to use it, but the fact that no one's trying gives me the impression that it isn't worth it.
Afro-Demon Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 The lack of stagger is kind of worrying me too, but honestly Carl can function well without them. 6C stagger was just mainly used so we didn't have to worry about timing moves to combo off fuoco, the rare overhead that we usually just use 2]D[ cross overs for anyway, and the occasional unblockable from RoM for those who don't know how to grab. The one that does worry me is 5C. I loved that move on CH. I might forgive it though if they made it so they can't poke our horse for CH. That was seriously the worst hitbox idea since CS1 Rachel.
Rishtopher Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 I never grab during RoM. They can tech grab and block while waiting til you get close for CA if needed. It's actually worse if they don't tech, then you kinda mess up your setup since you can't pick them up without RoM getting in the way. RoM>6B>6C>[6C] works great for me. They always tech RIGHT when the unblockable hits and it leads to decent damage. I never used 6C outside of that setup though, so I don't miss it. Only 5C matters, I'm gonna have to think a bit more when throwing it out there since there's not gonna be any advantage if I trade blows now.
Afro-Demon Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 No, I don't mean I grab, I mean they counter grab you while charging your 6C during RoM. One instant block and they're free to try and grab you if you get predictable with 6C. Doesn't always happen, but there are times where you can't do those traps without accidently getting to close and then you end up eating a grab cuz of it.
Rishtopher Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 No, I don't mean I grab, I mean they counter grab you while charging your 6C during RoM. One instant block and they're free to try and grab you if you get predictable with 6C. Doesn't always happen, but there are times where you can't do those traps without accidently getting to close and then you end up eating a grab cuz of it. OH I completely misunderstood you then, sorry! Oddly, that's never happened to me before. Usually, I do this setup on everyone except Tager since if I'm even a split second late, I get 720'd. I just opt for quick pokes and vivace crossups. When I try it against the CPU, I sometimes get DP'd, mostly only Ragna does it but it always catches me offguard with their too-perfect timing.
JG Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 6C still staggers by the way. I LOVE YOU SO MUCH! XD FUCK YEAH! Still i supose that 6C full charge bounce the opponent rigth?
Recommended Posts