atdsutm Posted January 2, 2011 Posted January 2, 2011 Arakune, Makoto, Jin, Noel and Rachel are the characters that stand out. Rachel? I was expecting that Hazama comes out at the same league as these guys how does Rachel play out to be in the same league as the other top tiers? her chair damage is probably one
Lord Knight Posted January 2, 2011 Author Posted January 2, 2011 Rachel? I was expecting that Hazama comes out at the same league as these guys how does Rachel play out to be in the same league as the other top tiers? her chair damage is probably one A quick summary: Arakune is just bullshit. Makoto, high damage off a lot of hits, is able to carry to the corner for good damage, similar to CS1 Litchi. Jin, got midscreen knockdown, good midscreen damage, higher corner damage, improved pressure. Noel, good midscreen damage (especially off 2D :/), good corner damage, some moves buffed, improved pressure. Rachel, good midscreen damage, good corner damage, a couple of buffed moves (jA, j2C, new gatling, 6B) Hazama, below average midscreen damage without meter, good corner damage, weaker 5B/3C, faster chains, usable 6C, can't reliably combo off resenga, new limits on chains Notice a pattern?
Xx_Hoshi_xX Posted January 2, 2011 Posted January 2, 2011 A quick summary: Arakune is just bullshit. Makoto, high damage off a lot of hits, is able to carry to the corner for good damage, similar to CS1 Litchi. Jin, got midscreen knockdown, good midscreen damage, higher corner damage, improved pressure. Noel, good midscreen damage (especially off 2D :/), good corner damage, some moves buffed, improved pressure. Rachel, good midscreen damage, good corner damage, a couple of buffed moves (jA, j2C, new gatling, 6B) Hazama, below average midscreen damage without meter, good corner damage, weaker 5B/3C, faster chains, usable 6C, can't reliably combo off resenga, new limits on chains Notice a pattern? I agree with this summary. Arakune (if trained properly) can do a combo that gets him full curse meter easily. And he can still deal good damage. Basically, if you fight an arakune that actually knows what he's doing, the match could end pretty quick.
NumeroGaijin Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Vs Tager though I believe the Kune match is first to get momentum wins. Once he is magnetized he is all Tagers but not as much guaranteed as if Ara curses Tager. But the match should even don't you think? or at least a close 6/4 in Ara's favor. This is also taking into account that since voltic charge has basically no recovery on it we don't have to deal with his dildo out of the ground on reaction as much.
Lord Knight Posted January 4, 2011 Author Posted January 4, 2011 I agree with this summary. Arakune (if trained properly) can do a combo that gets him full curse meter easily. And he can still deal good damage. Basically, if you fight an arakune that actually knows what he's doing, the match could end pretty quick. Of course, any matchup discussion assumes that both players know what they are doing. Vs Tager though I believe the Kune match is first to get momentum wins. Once he is magnetized he is all Tagers but not as much guaranteed as if Ara curses Tager. But the match should even don't you think? or at least a close 6/4 in Ara's favor. This is also taking into account that since voltic charge has basically no recovery on it we don't have to deal with his dildo out of the ground on reaction as much. Tager has serious problems against Arakune, it's around 6.5 or worse.
AdamNW Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 What do you think is the single most lopsided matchup in CS? Please explain with as much lulz as possible.
huey253 Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 i know i'm not LK but Bang vs Lambda is soooooo lopsided and unfair
Jais Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I'm so proud of dustloop to have 'top players' that care and actually share legit information. Carry on
A.X.I.S. Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 What do you think is the single most lopsided matchup in CS? Please explain with as much lulz as possible. Mu vs Tager Litchi vs Tager Mu vs Carl They are all horrible in every way possible. I gotta make a run, I'll edit this post and share my thoughts on the tager ones later.
FlyingVe Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Mu vs Tager is the worst. Tager literally cant do anything. Carl can kinda flop around against Mu; Tager can technically get lucky and hit litchi; and Tager can move in on Lambda in a slow predictable and ugly fashion. Mu can play a zero risk game against Tager and not even give him the chance to guess, except with spark (and she has lots of ways around that). Also, this conversation is probably to salty for a nice thread like this one.
A.X.I.S. Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Ugh Lambda vs Tager is bad but its very doable I'll put it like this, as long as Tager plays very well and evades the swords then getting mid screen won't be so bad. It's definitely closer to a 6-4. Mu vs Tager is not THAT hopeless but its pretty damn close... Tager vs Litchi is bad because Tager can't do anything without risking a hit which can lead to 4k. And I feel Litchi only needs to Take risks when getting out of pressure but that goes for everyone. IMO Ragna vs Mu is ass for Mu.
huey253 Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 bang vs lambda, is really really bad i think its the worst actually.
FlyingVe Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 IMO Ragna vs Mu is ass for Mu. This one isn't that bad actually. Though it is really frustrating. Mu shuts Ragna's approach down pretty bad, and has decent tools for getting away from him and staying away. However, the difference in damage output is titanic. On hit from Ragna can make up for half a match of zoning... ugh...I'd say it's about 5-5. Also, Bang vs Mu/Lamda are both pretty ass too.
Edalborez Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I would've thought Ara vs Lambda/Haku/Mu is pretty shitty for Ara, but I suppose curse damage output makes up for it.
NumeroGaijin Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Mu vs Tager The only way to pretty much win this fight imo is all dependent upon the Mu player. If it is a runaway Mu then you know you are gonna have to chase her the whole match and then its dependent upon there knowledge of stein placement. If you are facing an aggressive Mu (meaning they like block strings using steins and physical attacks) then you are mostly to catch them slipping. Both types of Mus use block strings with steins and physical attacks but the aggressive Mu is willing to take move risk in doing up close block strings which likely means IB 720. But the runaway Mu's move up close to Tager with stein block strings but jump away immediately after their pressure ends rinse and repeat in hopes of bating sledge or other attempts like a whiffed AC. Tager down right depends on magnetism in the match. You just have make Mu afraid to jump and ALWAYS ALWAYS be ready to bait the burst. Offence in this matchup is Tager's defense while standing still and waiting it out you will lose. I have even found that making mistakes and getting hit in order to move closer to Mu works well in most cases. This matchup is definitely like i thought it would be when Mu was first announce which is 7/3 Mu. Carl vs Mu Clearly in Mu's favor but not by much. Mu's steins SLOW down Carls attempts at getting inside and creating his sandwich. They are also get out of carl's trap free cards as they cause the carl to block which means no nirvana. But eventually carl will get inside and when he does he can keep her there if he keeps her on the ground and he must do that with resets and such. I would say the matchup is a 5.5/4.5 Mu's favor. Arakune's curse saves him from his bad matchup unlike any other character in the game that has to hope and pray for mistakes.
Lord Knight Posted January 5, 2011 Author Posted January 5, 2011 What do you think is the single most lopsided matchup in CS? Please explain with as much lulz as possible. Bang vs Lambda Mu vs Carl Mu vs Tager Bang vs Tager Carl vs Tager Arakune vs Tager Tager's pretty popular, huh :/ What's your tier list for CS2? I can't make one! I haven't played the game yet, lol. Right now I do keep up with the bbs tier list thread, but that one has been pretty wild.
Sophisticat Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 On the topic of thought process and strategy, how exactly does one come up with a proper strategy, and what kind of mindset are we talking about? This is personally the one thing I've been struggling with recently because I find it hard to make a strategy in such a fluid environment as an FG. It's not chess where you have plenty of time to think about a move. You also can't predict which move of yours will land a hit, so thinking about the big picture is sometimes difficult. Any tips?
NumeroGaijin Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Quick question pertaining to the thread. I don't I have ever asked but do you mind LK, seeing how it is your thread, if I as well as other post answers to other ppl questions though you will answer them yourself anyway? I know I am a bit late on asking this as well as it seems to me like I kinda just jumped in and started answering certain questions though they were aimed at you.
soujiro seta Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) Mu vs Carl in CS2 is going to be 8-2. This will be the worst matchup. Edited January 6, 2011 by soujiro seta
huey253 Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 Mu vs Carl in CS2 is going to be 8-2. This will be the worst matchup. i'm pretty sure there won't be any 8-2 matchups in CS2.... P.S. i heard carl is S tier on jpBBS
Lord Knight Posted January 6, 2011 Author Posted January 6, 2011 On the topic of thought process and strategy, how exactly does one come up with a proper strategy, and what kind of mindset are we talking about? This is personally the one thing I've been struggling with recently because I find it hard to make a strategy in such a fluid environment as an FG. It's not chess where you have plenty of time to think about a move. You also can't predict which move of yours will land a hit, so thinking about the big picture is sometimes difficult. Any tips? It depends. Of course, I can only give my perspective on how I handle it, and how I think other people handle it. Some people play solely based on instinct and reactions, and there are characters where this is possible and can even work to a certain point. Personally, I feel that most (maybe 95%) of the top players plan for all their matches. Coming up with a proper strategy is preparing for a character. Coming up with a strategy, depends on your own characters tools - how you do it is up to you. Basically what I do is: 1) Look at my character. I try to determine what kind of character I'm playing in relation to theirs. Do they have to deal with my stuff (ie, can I do whatever they want)? Is there something they have that prevents me from following my normal gameplan? A character like Bang, Tao or Arakune are able to just play for a majority of their matchups (up to a certain level), a character like Jin, Litchi or Hakumen may not have this luxury. 2) If they do have something that gives you problems, examine their character. Play first to find out exactly what's giving you trouble, then go to training mode to try to figure it out (or test with someone). If it's hitbox, test to see if you have a move that wins. If it's oki, test to see if there are answers. 3) Apply! What strategy does is give you a plan for the character. If the other player doesn't know the answers, you should just be able to win. If someone do have answers, you'll be playing the player, as well as the character (that's what makes the game fun). It's not like chess, where you have to sit around and think for a move. Once you plan for a matchup properly, you'll recognize the situations you've planned for and act accordingly. As far as "predicting" what moves of yours should hit, you shouldn't need to. You should be able to hitconfirm, or create a string that makes it easy to hitconfirm your single move. For example, with Litchi, her 3C[m] is only jump cancellable on hit, not block, so i always buffer airdash (for 3C > JB > 2C > ItsuuA, etc). On whiff, obviously nothing happens, on block, Itsuucan/ItsuuC/ItsuuB. Quick question pertaining to the thread. I don't I have ever asked but do you mind LK, seeing how it is your thread, if I as well as other post answers to other ppl questions though you will answer them yourself anyway? I know I am a bit late on asking this as well as it seems to me like I kinda just jumped in and started answering certain questions though they were aimed at you. I don't mind if other people post answers as long as they legitimately know what they are talking about. If it's a question pertaining to perspective (like the one I just answered), I think it's fine if anyone answers, because it's more of an opinion. how do you beat litchi jb 5A, real anti-airs. Really hard to win air to air. I'm surprised you didn't ask how do you beat Litchi jA, lol.
Nini Heart Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 What are your thoughts/impressions on the Makoto/Litchi matchup, and which characters give you/Litchi the most trouble? Also, what kind of players do you find yourself struggling the most against?
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