Rhiya Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 Any advice to Tsubaki players that isn't along the lines of "lolololol play Ragna"?
Lord Knight Posted January 23, 2011 Author Posted January 23, 2011 Any advice to Tsubaki players that isn't along the lines of "lolololol play Ragna"? Unfortunately there's not much I can say about this. You've got to work so hard to win with Tsubaki with only meager rewards. Normally I do tell people to just switch characters until CS2 if they play the bottom 4. Really I all I can say is buff your neutral as much as you can, get clean pressure, and come up with as many ways to hit with 22[d] as possible. Manage your meter well and try to segment your matches between games you can just play (since they can't zone you hard), and matches where you have to sit/be patient (but normally have more time to charge).
Rhiya Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 Yeah, I guess there really isn't tons to say. Just makes me sad sometimes, though, since I'm a million times better with Tsu than pretty much any other character, but still can't win often with that. It's almost like the better you play with Tsu, the worse off you feel. Recently, I tried to give my neutral game a pretty big overhaul, and I definitely feel like I can play neutral better -- but it made me understand so much of why Tsubaki is bad that I didn't "get" before. So many situations, it's just like you're running into a damn wall when you try to give answers.
Tong Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 Yeah, I guess there really isn't tons to say. Just makes me sad sometimes, though, since I'm a million times better with Tsu than pretty much any other character, but still can't win often with that. It's almost like the better you play with Tsu, the worse off you feel. Recently, I tried to give my neutral game a pretty big overhaul, and I definitely feel like I can play neutral better -- but it made me understand so much of why Tsubaki is bad that I didn't "get" before. So many situations, it's just like you're running into a damn wall when you try to give answers. "The more you know, the less you know" Quick one. based on the final tier list for BBCS, Is Ragna roughly at the same position he was at CT?
Lord Knight Posted January 23, 2011 Author Posted January 23, 2011 This is the problem. I find that I am entirely unable to strike a balance between not thinking at all and overthinking. I can play against a lot of players (and even players at my skill level) without having to think about what I'm doing because I just know what I'm doing. However, this train of thought is obviously problematic when it comes to things that I can't just counter unconsciously, and when something like that comes up I'm overthinking and I've lost. I suppose part of it comes down to the fact that I simply don't know the efficacy of my other options as thoroughly as I do the ones that I use frequently so I'm not inclined to employ/fall back on them and then I get stuck thinking really hard about under what circumstances they might fail in the absence of consistent and focused practice against the players that beat me (which I can't get; the closest I've got is online which gives me a pool of a few hundred players to adapt to, which is great for establishing general strategy but entirely worthless for establishing character- or situation-specific routes of resolution). I want to get into this further. This is something I see in some midlevel players. Don't waste time trying to over-complicate the game. Not thinking at all is obviously a bad idea, over-thinking will just lose to randomness. As far as dealing with what options you want at your disposal, just keep it in the framework of your matchup strategy. There's no need to use some obscure option if it's not necessary (for example, Litchi can hop lows with 4D - but how often do you see this?). Play their character first (as in, apply matchup strategy), then play the player (if they know proper responses to your strategy).
advancedNoob Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 Last time I played a decent Tsubaki I quickly realized that she will become a major pain in CS2. She has some REALLY SICK frame traps and unblockable attack resets that will make your brain hurt.
Lord Knight Posted January 24, 2011 Author Posted January 24, 2011 "The more you know, the less you know" Quick one. based on the final tier list for BBCS, Is Ragna roughly at the same position he was at CT? More or less. It's a bit interesting to see that even though Ragna is in a more or less average position, he's still a relatively strong character. It tells a lot about the cast's overall strength this time.
Yoshara Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 More or less. It's a bit interesting to see that even though Ragna is in a more or less average position, he's still a relatively strong character. It tells a lot about the cast's overall strength this time. It kinda reminds me of something that was said about CS2 Makoto. "She has barely changed, but now is looking impressive. How broken was the high tier in CS1?"
ATG Warlord Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 she got nerfed in CS2 (remember mak mains crying about it) but still managed to be S tier. personally, I'd put her at S tier or maybe A+ ... refer to XBL general if you're interested in my opinion around posts 660~ I wrote why I'd place her as such. (hurry before circ deletes the thread)
Lord Knight Posted January 24, 2011 Author Posted January 24, 2011 It kinda reminds me of something that was said about CS2 Makoto. "She has barely changed, but now is looking impressive. How broken was the high tier in CS1?" I rank her at A+. Her max damage is big, her abare is a bit weak unless you're fishing for it. Her midscreen damage isn't too good, corner damage, ukemi and okizeme are all good. Weak against characters that play neutral well (but her damage makes up for it). Despite this, I don't think she's even close to CS1 Litchi, lol
toanenadiz Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Which characters do you think have good neutral games?
Lord Knight Posted January 24, 2011 Author Posted January 24, 2011 Characters with good neutral games are those who not only do a lot of damage at random hits, but do a good job at controlling options when not in pressure. Characters aren't ordered in any specific way. Top class: Tao, Litchi Excellent: Bang, Carl, Arakune, Hazama, Valk, Mu, Lambda Great: Hakumen, Ragna, Jin, Makoto, Rachel Good: Noel, Tsubaki, Tager Fucking lame: Carl Carl Carl Carl Carl No character in this game is particularly bad in neutral, it's just that some characters are absolutely ridiculous.
Zoogstin Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) Fucking lame: Carl Carl Carl Carl Carl Why do I feel like this is personal for you? Edited January 24, 2011 by Zoogstin
Angel Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Characters with good neutral games are those who not only do a lot of damage at random hits, but do a good job at controlling options when not in pressure. Characters aren't ordered in any specific way. Top class: Tao, Litchi Excellent: Bang, Carl, Arakune, Hazama, Valk, Mu, Lambda Great: Hakumen, Ragna, Jin, Makoto, Rachel Good: Noel, Tsubaki, Tager Fucking lame: Carl Carl Carl Carl Carl No character in this game is particularly bad in neutral, it's just that some characters are absolutely ridiculous. Did you put Carl in two tiers on purpose?
Lord Knight Posted January 24, 2011 Author Posted January 24, 2011 Why do I feel like this is personal for you? Don't read too much into it! Did you put Carl in two tiers on purpose? Troll success!
ATG Warlord Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Why do I feel like this is personal for you? I thought about you immediately lolllllllll
Sharakonta Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Someone has a few more issues with Karuru than I do.
Angel Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Troll success! I got troll'd. Should I even ask you to elaborate?
Yoshara Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 I would venture a guess that one is with Ada, and one is without. Either that or just for fun.
Lord Knight Posted January 24, 2011 Author Posted January 24, 2011 I got troll'd. Should I even ask you to elaborate? I used to really hate Carl (like a lot). Now he's tolerable (some matchups vs him are actually fun).
Angel Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Well, my neutral game is pretty terrible. So, as a Carl player (even though I don't blame my character) I was curious to see where he'd rank him. EDIT:I used to really hate Carl (like a lot). Now he's tolerable (some matchups vs him are actually fun). Gotcha, thanks.
Seyluun Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Isn't Carl's neutral "wait a step behind Ms Wall until you see a chance to cross the opponent"?
ATG Warlord Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) The art of baiting reversals? when to respect it and when to disrespect it. Also, what's the mindset of a good JP player when it comes to baiting reversals in your opinion? Edited January 24, 2011 by ATG Warlord
Nini Heart Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) LK, I wanted to ask you about bursting. I've recently changed my bursting game completely and it's changed the way I play. I used to only green burst when I was gonna eat a big fat combo or when I was about to lose a round, but a lot of times, I got burst baited and still ended up dying, or burst and still lost the round, making my opponents have to worry about one less burst. And I notice that a lot of people still do that, making for easy burst baits. I noticed that a lot of high level players liked to bait my bursts. So I stopped bursting and noticed that many of them were expecting me to burst and dropping their combos/pressure allowing me to perform a comeback(kinda). Another thing I've started doing is using gold burst as a poke / reversal. It's a bit risky but I can get 5K off a gold burst. I figured that instead of bursting out of combos, I could prevent those combos from happening by gold bursting and going into my own combo that would force them to burst. As of now, I only green burst to regain momentum(aside of rage bursts:v:), I.E, someone in corner hits me(not gonna be a big combo), I burst to put them back in the corner + orb oki. Also I've discovered some burst tactics and I was wondering if there were some more that you knew that you could share with me. One of the burst tactics I recently discovered came from a rage burst. Vs ragna, get hit by I.D, burst instantly, I.D. invincibility frames absorbs the burst, you recover before he lands and can proceed to punishing him. Vs jin, in corner, jin hit confirms 5C, he's gonna go into 623B for corner combo, you burst on the 5C, 623B invincibility absorbs the burst, you recover before him and get a free combo. Anyways, I wanted to know your views on bursting because I feel this is one important mechanic in the game which has not been talked about much or discussed as deeply as it should (or I haven't seen the discussions about it). Edited January 24, 2011 by Nini Heart
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