[CS2] Iron Tager General Discussion

[Karsticles]

I don't treat people like newbies, I do yell and scream and ask sarcastic questions to even the best players.

Well, I'm glad this is over the internet, then.

So let me tell you how I do things. (I'd like to say that my way may not be the right way to go.

The more ways I know, the closer I will be to knowing my way.

Gadget finger guesses are after are guesses, if you are afraid of any punishes for guessing wrong then use 5A, the only option to beat 5A is backdash.

What do I do if my opponent jumps back and blocks? I'm not sure how to follow up from that.

2D is really good but you wanna use it to force corner, for me I tend to use Bsledge>4D after collider if I don't use midscreen gadget.

Oh wow, you can Bsledge into 4D after AC? I started using 2D partially because Bsledge>GF was too hard for me to do consistently in matches, so I thought it was worthwhile to sacrifice a little damage for consistent execution. Before I discovered 2D, I just used Additional Attack after a BSledge, which sucks, of course. So does Bsledge>4D work against all of the roster after AC?

I get the weaker mag than J.D/5D/gadget but I put them in a pretty good spot which is 5D range, an ideal spot to be in during neutral.

Gotcha.

Rapid canceling MTW for 360B is great, you can also vary the timing of the RC, as Mike Z said before you can RC before the last hit to make it feint.

I even successfully RCed 2D for 720C once, and my opponent teched it; I was very sad. I have been varying the timing to mess with my opponent, since a few of them have come to expect it. What do you mean by making the move feint?

Personally if they are in the air I RC 2C which always hits everyone because they assume they would fall into a 360.

Cool, I'll start doing that.

2A as a AA?

Off CH use 5C/2C>collider stuff.

Should I not use 2A for AA? It seems like that is it's natural role, and I am generally too slow to react to AC/2C against an incoming opponent, but 2A has stuffed a lot of approaches for me thus far.

Thanks!

[A.X.I.S.]

Bsledge>4D works on everyone and if the hits are low you can even use Bsledge>5B>4D.

The latter pushes people further away.

5A beats jump after gadget, people will have to block the 5A, your 5A beats everyone else's jab since gadget is +3.

The 5A forces them to fall, you can actually do 5A>5C to catch jumpers.

Bgadget is easy: Bsledge>gadget hold it for a split sec and release.

You can RC MTW before the last hit connects making it look like you were gonna hit them with it.

You do not need to RC 2D to 720, just mash it out.

If you are gonna RC then use 6A to pull them back in or RC it in its later frames (After you connect and is point blank.) and continue pressure.

2A is a good AA and arguably our best AA, still situational though.

Edit: IRL I am pretty loud but I am alright.

The problem is I tell newbies way too much info and they can't absorb it.

Then I get sad.

Edited May 24, 2011 by A.X.I.S.

[FlyingVe]

I'm a big fan of AC>Bsledge into safe jB. The timing is hard to get perfect, but done right it stuffs rolls.

[Karsticles]

5A beats jump after gadget, people will have to block the 5A, your 5A beats everyone else's jab since gadget is +3.

The 5A forces them to fall, you can actually do 5A>5C to catch jumpers.

What I mean is that after they block 5A, I don't feel like I have a strong follow-up. But I'll try 5C.

Bgadget is easy: Bsledge>gadget hold it for a split sec and release.

Will this make a difference even if my opponent is not magnetized?

You do not need to RC 2D to 720, just mash it out.

I've had opponents jump before the 720 though; was that just my poor execution? I am mashing pretty hard, haha.

The problem is I tell newbies way too much info and they can't absorb it.

I think I'm at the point where I can absorb it. I waited until I had a few hundred matches under my belt to start posting, and I've read everything there is on this forum. I look forward to an updated tech trap list.

I'm a big fan of AC>Bsledge into safe jB. The timing is hard to get perfect, but done right it stuffs rolls.

Can you show me a video of this being put into use? I'm a very visual learner.

[mAc Chaos]

Nothing can stop someone from jumping out of a 720 if they see it coming. Unless it's to punish a move and they're in the middle of it. Otherwise you just have to catch them off guard.

[FlyingVe]

Can you show me a video of this being put into use? I'm a very visual learner.

Maybe... The jist of it is, after ending a combo with Bsledge, wait just a moment and jump at them with a low jB. Tager's jB has a great hitbox. The best thing is it's safe against slow reversals... which sadly, isn't most of them. You could look up ChanceWizard/LostSoul/TragicxGhost he's the one that showed it to me, and he does it alot.

Nothing can stop someone from jumping out of a 720 if they see it coming. Unless it's to punish a move and they're in the middle of it. Otherwise you just have to catch them off guard.

Yep, a 720 will always be a guess unless it's a punish. And even then there are lots of variables. THis is why I would never rely on or consider any strategy the centers around landing a 720.

Edited May 24, 2011 by FlyingVe

[A.X.I.S.]

Bsledge safe jump j.B is pretty simple :D.

Bgadget works the same way even if they are magnetized.

If 2D>720 is jumped then you need to change it up and use collider.

2D is a good way to test your opponents habits.

I am not gonna go into detail why.

Henaki was a great man.

R.I.P Henaki.

[FlyingVe]

Problem with safe jB is that if the timing is off by a little, it won't stuff roll like it should. Especially against Tao. And sometimes you want mag.

Yeah, I agree with AXIS, I often spend the first round (against good players) just doing stuff to see how they respond to it. Alex Valle once said, "the first round is for information".

Also, regarding 2D>720C, you can check almost as well with 2D>360A, the invul will kick in fast enough to stuff crap, but it is slightly reactable that way.

[mAc Chaos]

What makes 2D special for checking reactions?

[FlyingVe]

What makes 2D special for checking reactions?

-1 on block.

I actually use it against you somewhat frequently.

It's easy to tell whether they are concerned with your 360's or not. Or are just doing reversals.

[A.X.I.S.]

And if they try to stuff it and they are even a split second late they get CH'd.

Very rare had a 2D trade for me.

[mAc Chaos]

-1 on block.

I actually use it against you somewhat frequently.

It's easy to tell whether they are concerned with your 360's or not. Or are just doing reversals.

We haven't played in a while. We should get on that.

B Sledge is another good one for that kind of thing, I think.

[FlyingVe]

We haven't played in a while. We should get on that.

B Sledge is another good one for that kind of thing, I think.

It can be (as is 5A>5B), but it's harder to hit someone with naked (they stuff it). Unless you reset them into it, which can be shaky in and itself.

We should play soon. Just message me. I'm still rusty as I've been a bit preoccupied and unable to practice like I should. Should have time to sharpen up soon though.

Edit:Bsledge isn't quite as good as 2D also, because most people won't try and punish it. Makes it harder to check for certain habits because people know it's +3 on block.

Edited May 24, 2011 by FlyingVe

[FlyingVe]

Also, I have a question. How Mu own Tager? I don't understand that match up at all.

I just noticed this question. As someone who plays both characters, I can give my 2cents worth.

1)This matchup is balls, no amount of strategy and preparation will change that.

2)Mu hates being Mag'd, it makes her jump cancel stein BS much less safe.

3)Spark is really good in this matchup. It forces her to zone it a much less effective way.

General strategy: Hurl yourself at Mu. By this I don't mean sledge or jC. But always be moving towards her. Unlike Tao and Hazama Mu can't dart around you at a whim. You gonna lose primers and maybe get hit but eventually you will get close enough to mag her, or back her into a corner. One of the reasons this match is so ass, is that even after you accomplish all this, Mu has the second best DP in the game...

[mAc Chaos]

Mu second best DP? No way.

[FlyingVe]

What's better outside of ID?

[mAc Chaos]

Jin's 623D, Makoto's DP, Litchi's is pretty good, possibly Hotaru.

Can you RC her DP?

I've had a ton of situations where I ended up clashing with her DP and hit her out of it instead.

It's not bad though.

[FlyingVe]

Jin's 623D, Makoto's DP, Litchi's is pretty good, possibly Hotaru.

Can you RC her DP?

I've had a ton of situations where I ended up clashing with her DP and hit her out of it instead.

It's not bad though.

Jin's takes 25 heat so for it to be safe it's a 75 heat commitment.

Makoto's has a shitty hitbox that can't hit at range and can be low-profiled (Most notably by Mu/Lambda 2B). Also, it's invul ends right when it goes active.

Hotaru... maybe, but it got nerfed pretty bad and you do technically need to get airborne which makes it harder to hit gaps with.

Litchi's cannot be RC's and doesn't really lead to anything.

Yes you can RC Mu's. On block it gives you a mixup, and on hit it gets you oki mixup (DP>RC>(5C)>6C>~). Though I would never RC it on it.

Edited May 24, 2011 by FlyingVe

[A.X.I.S.]

Litchi can combo off her DP but it has to hit you a certain way.

Mu's DP isn't that good you can jump and NORMAL block it.

[FlyingVe]

Litchi can combo off her DP but it has to hit you a certain way.

Mu's DP isn't that good you can jump and NORMAL block it.

You can block all DP's though (with barrier). It no where near the godly-ness of ID, but I hold it's the second best in the game.

[mAc Chaos]

I dunno, something about the hitbox... I've never really feared her DP. Even when she does it half the time, it ends up whiffing or clashing and I win the exchange.

[FlyingVe]

I dunno, something about the hitbox... I've never really feared her DP. Even when she does it half the time, it ends up whiffing or clashing and I win the exchange.

This is true, it does clash alot, but that usually works out in Mu's favor anyways (if they're paying attention). It does hit on both sides of her though which is relevant in alot of situations.

[CrazyI-nomitsu]

2D -1 on block? Is the 360/720 after a block 2D still possible?

[Nini Heart]

I don't really know how mu has the 2nd best DP. Everyone else can get some silly damage off their dps without rapid. She can't. And if you're using your DP right, it doesn't matter whether it has 20 invuln frames or 7. Only thing that matters is startup, hitbox and reward if you ask me.

Mu might have the best defensive dp (anti crossup), but no one is scared of it and it clashes way too much. Meanwhile, eat a makoto/point blank litchi/Jin D DP and get ready for a ride on the pain express.

[Manta]

What do I do if my opponent jumps back and blocks? I'm not sure how to follow up from that.

Jumping away and barriering after your gadget finger? Try Yomi Collider™. Punish those cowards for trying to run from you!

Edited May 25, 2011 by Manta