[CS2] Hakumen Combo Guide

[Sophisticat]

*Whew*

Added new carry & reversal combos as well as a section to explain tough execution spots. Please tell me if there's anything else I should add/modify.

For execution of TK's -> AD I noted the minimum height as around roughly Ragna's waist. I haven't really tested this, though. Could anyone do it? I don't have my Ps3 with me.

out of curiosity, does all (j2A~~~jC)X2 replacements nets lower total dmg than only one rep into knockdown? I've tried several and they do about 70-100 less dmg, but you get an additional 40% of a bar of meter.

I haven't looked into this, but I will once I get back to my Ps3. Meter isn't something I've focused on yet.

Hahaha, no. Not at all. I didn't have a clue this was why it wasn't working, either. I thought my execution was ass and I wasn't doing the IAD early enough. :p I could do it on Ragna but I wasn't able to get it to work on Jin at all. Didn't check other chars since I was like "There's no way this doesn't work on Jin!!!" and was practicing there.

Ah, okay, that's cool then. Hope it works for you now, I'm having trouble getting consistent at these myself. :\

[psycofang2]

Psycho, I'm about to put up your counter combos. Want to add/change anything before? Also, I assume these are midscreen, right?

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I added new sections under "misc. combos" titled "Heavy Corner Carry" and "Reversals" for the combos found in that corner carry vid. I'll make up a list of combos that should be up later today or tomorrow.

I'm also considering adding a new section just to explain how to do Haku's harder combo parts with vids as accompaniment. If you're having trouble with links, this should help out. Might as well add character-specifics in there, too. What do you say guys, aye or nay?

sorry been out with the gf for a few days and just got back. about the combos yeah go ahead and set em' up. if theres anything theres more to add not change. so after this ill do a counter corner combo list. you can guess what the main bnb will be. :P i see this threads started to finally take off. good shit guys.

EDIT: yeah they are all mid screen.

Edited May 23, 2011 by psycofang2

[ryokoalways]

I've played around with combos based on the combo vids that's been posted. I've tried some original stuff, but mostly I just tried to test changes and optimize combos. I also did not test with any DLC characters.

Instant overhead is possible on Ragna and Carl. Funny thing is, if they are crouching and not blocking (2), the jB will whiff. If they are blocking (1), the jB will hit. I think it's safe to say that requirement isn't an issue.

Mid screen hotaru- If hakumen's vertical position is higher than his opponents and the opponent isn't one character length off the ground, the following is possible:

hotaru>IAD delay jC>land gurren>IAD delay jA>jB>2C>j2A>j2A>jC>j2A>j2A>j2A>jC>5C>3C

70% screen distance results in corner knockdown. The window for the combo is tight. Important timings are the first jC hit, which can't be too high (gurren will whiff) or too low (IAD jA>jB cannot be delayed). If the combo is done incorrectly, you can adjust to

land gurren> hop 5A>5B>j2A.

I use this mainly as the combo for cross-up hotaru, which you can set-up with enma IAD or 5B IAD. The idea is exactly the same as ragna's 3C>IAD dp cross-up. It's not as reliable because you need the opponent to be standing, but if used sparingly it's a powerful tool.

Use the following combo pieces only with good starter (renka, 5B, 5C,3C). Other poke starters will cause combo to terminate at relaunch. General rule to follow is don't go above minimum number of magatamas unless starter is good.

This does not work with arakune or carl due to their air hitbox lacking a lower part.

~renka>kishuu>hop 2C>tk hotaru>AD j2C(1S)>2C>j2A>AD j2A>j2C>2C>j2A>AD j2A>jC>5C>3C

tsubaki insert at (1S), following 2C requires hop first. This will increase dmg by ~1k, so only do this if you are going for the kill, as like most combos, they are front loaded for magatama usage. Alternatively, you can use shippu at the end of the combo for less dmg, but get to keep the magatama safe from being wasted due to a burst.

Renka starter for 5380 and 1.3 recovery

5B for 5035 and 1.3 recovery 6127 (tsubaki) vs 5727 (shippu)

5C for 6215 and 1.3 recovery 7471 (tsubaki) vs 6891 (shippu)

3C for 5595 and 1.3 recovery (always use shippu above tsubaki insert as you cannot double relaunch off 3C starter) 6551 vs 6289

Mix-up starters

Note: You can use any starter with the combo piece, but follow the above rule in only using magatama when you land a good starter.

-Use renka only when 3 magatama or lower/2B starter

low magatama

Low

renka(2) into (j2A>j2A>jc)X2 for 3675 and 1.5 recovery

2B starter into regular for 2848 and .9 recovery

renka>kishuu>6C into 2 relaunches for 5299 and 1.8 recovery

3C counter starter into 2 relaunches for 5524 and 1.8 recovery

High

tsubaki>6C into 2 relaunches for 5326 and 1.9 recovery

jB fuzzy guard/overhead into (j2A>j2A>jc)X2 for 4744 and 1.6 recovery

Hotaru- Add (j2A>j2A>jc)X2 if counter

hotaru>6C(charge level varies depending on height and distance) into 2 relaunches for 5024 (lvl2 charge) and 2.3 recovery

high magatama- obviously not efficient. Use only when going for the kill

Low

renka>kishuu>6C>2C>hotaru>j2C>5C~ into 2 relaunches for 6726 and 1.8 recovery

3C counter starter into 2 relaunches for 6244 and 1.9 recovery (remove 6C)

renka>kishuu>gold burst>6C>2C>hotaru>j2C>5C~ into 2 relaunches for 7318 and 1.9 recovery

3C counter starter into 2 relaunches for 7302 and 1.9 recovery

High

tsubaki>hop gold burst>5C>2C>hotaru>6C into regular for 6166 and 1.7 recovery

Hotaru- Add (j2A>j2A>jc)X2 if counter hit

hotaru>j2C>tsubaki>land 6C into 2 relaunches for 6401 and 2 recovery

hotaru>land gold burst>6C>2C> j2C (if not counter, jB)>tsubaki>AD j2C>2C into 2 relaunches for 7234 and 2.6 recovery

I have a gold burst in some combos because I feel that Hakumen can apply pressure with increased dmg when he lands a good hit. In instances where a gold burst would increase your dmg by enough to kill the opponent, you should always do it. This will apply pressure to your opponent to match your burst or die. This also makes reading a burst much easier, since the situation is very simple.

For air throws near the corner, it's always better to cancel into a special. Either

air throw>tsubaki into double relaunch (j2A>j2A>jc)X2 for 5538 and 2.7 recovery (the j2A...X2 component varies by character here)

or if within 25% screen distance to the corner.

air throw>hotaru>hop 6C into double relaunch for 4926 lvl3 or 4539 lvl2 and 1.9

The following are reverse combo options for the piece

3C (counter)>2B>renka>kishu>~

3 magatama

hop 6A (can insert a 5A before 6A against certain characters as burst bait)>5A>j2A>AD j2A>j2C>2C>j2A>j2A>AD j2A>jC>5C>3C for 3821 and 1.2 recovery

Really close to the corner you can,

6A>j2A>j2C~ into (j2A>j2A>jc)X2 instead for 3994 and 1.9 recovery

4 magatama

6C>gurren into (j2A>j2A>jc)X2 for 4969 and 2.1 recovery

5 magatama

hop 2C>hotaru>6C into (j2A>j2A>jc)X2 for 5794 lvl3 or 5628 lvl2 and 2.3 recovery

The level of the 6C is distance dependent, and a hop may need to be inserted as well. Use your own judgement.

The combo is very long, and unless you get the opponent as close to the ground as possible for the final jC, they will tech 5C before becoming otg.

As mentioned above, the big dmg mid screen combo does not work for arakune, so I worked in a new meter gain combo as a replacement. Usually renka>enma piece will work just fine, but the meter return isn't that great. Because it's a replacement for the punish combo, I am assuming good starter (5C). Likewise, 40% distance to the corner is required.

5C>enma>jump back, then slight delay AD (match height where arakune is about an inch above you)>delay jC (use AD momentum to move arakune a bit to the corner of the map before striking)>hotaru>AD land 6C into regular combo.

Arakune must be above you or else hotaru won't land. You will hit arakune's bottom as it will extend when he gets hit by jC (the animation causes a slight hitbox extention). You also need to use your AD to push arakune a little, or else he will tech just before reaching the wall.

The damage from this combo is about the same as renka>enma. However, due to the longer continuation from hotaru wallbounce and 6C ground slide, the meter gain from the combo is a lot more superior.

Edited May 24, 2011 by ryokoalways

[gambitxmen8]

thanks for all the great info guys, good job

[Sophisticat]

Psycho, right on it.

Yeah, thread took a bit. We needed to figure out new Haku's combos since they're pretty different from CS1.

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Damn, Ryoko, that's a nice, big post. I'll have to read it later to see what I can get out from it.

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More testing done on the IAD j.a -> j.b carry shows that it's much easier on characters with bigger vertical hitboxes. Ragna and Tager I now have roughly 35% success rate on the combo in training, whereas I have yet to land it on Jin.

Jin's got a short air hitbox, so delay j.a is hard to time. I might recommend doing an early IAD for him, then delay j.a to the max to do a low j.b hit. Spark says the combo only drops on Rachel, so more testing to be done here.

Now, for IAD timing, I recommend doing it the moment the hitbox bounces off the wall. This should provide enough delay to hit a late j.a. This is only for tall characters so far, though.

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EDIT: Anyone know of any good low-mag midscreen options aside from the known ones? I think we should attempt to develop this area as much as possible. We have:

- 3c CH -> 2b -> Gurren -> [Juggle or IAD j.a -> j.b]

- Dustloop

- Counters

- Hotaru

- Random meterless stuff like AA 5a, 6a, 2c, etc.

And that's about it? Sucks balls compared to CS1, lol.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Sophisticat

[ryokoalways]

The following catch combos do not use any magatamas, and has meter retention in mind.

5D>6A>5A>j2A>AD slight delay j2A for 1996, 2 recovery and knockdown.

5D>6A>5A>jA>jB>j2A>jC for 2062 and 2.2 recovery

2D>delay IAD jA>jB>2C>j2A>j2A>jC for 1920 and 2.2 recovery. Not universal

2D>walk for a bit, 6A>5A>j2A>j2A>jC for 1798 and 2.1 recovery, in the event where the above doesn't work.

6D>super jump j2C>2C>j2A>j2A>jC for 2410 and 2.3 recovery

6D>hop twice 2C>super jump j2A for 1899, 1.9 recovery and set-up knockdown.

[ryokoalways]

Fuzzy guard jB>tsubaki is probably a universal set-up from middle of screen.

50% screen length

jB>tsubaki>AD j2C>land gurren>walk 2C(5B if more to the 50% area)>j2A>AD j2A>j2C>2C>j2A>AD j2A>jC>j2A>J2A>AD j2A>jC>5C>3C for 4741 and 2.2 recovery

75% screen length

jB>tsubaki>AD j2C>land gurren>IAD delay jA>jB>2C>j2A>AD j2A>jC>j2A>j2A>AD j2A>jC>5C>3C for 4230 and 1.9 recovery

If above doesn't work, then

jB>tsubaki>AD j2C>land gurren>hop 5A>6A>5A>j2A>AD j2A>jC>6C for 3676 and 1 recovery

You can add j2A>J2A>AD j2A>jC>5C>3C at the end if you are between 50% and 70% distance. It's only ~75% distance that requires the 6C knockdown.

[Spark]

Off 5D you can do 5D > 6A > delay > 5A > 5B > sjc > j.A > j.B > dj > j.2A > j.C for ~2130. Though the delay between 6A > 5A is kind of annoying, you need it for 5B to connect (done on Ragna).

Also j.214C > AD > j.2C > 214A seems really tight on Carl.

[ryokoalways]

5D>6A>5A>5B is probably not universal if it's strict on Ragna.

2D>6A>5A>5B would probably be universal though.

Characters with a short otg hitbox has a tighter timing for the j2C. I think characters like noel/nu/mu and carl are the only ones though. A slight delay to the j2C fixes the problem, and it's not too difficult if the AD timing after tsubaki is good. There isn't any variation in height either so really no random factor to have to account for.

Edit: I don't know what I was thinking about when I said 2D would work. That will teach me to think about other shit during work.

Edited May 24, 2011 by ryokoalways

[Sophisticat]

Shouldn't that be:

5D -> 6a -> 5a -> j.2a -> AD j.2a -> j.C instead? I thought we used that instead of CS1 hop pickup now since it gives better meter/dmg?

Will update the new combos later. IAD j.a -> j.b off 2D is a cool find since it means there's a meterless starter.

[ryokoalways]

Doesn't work off 5D since you can't get them high enough in the air. It does work for 2D, and it's already there.

[ryokoalways]

For certain characters where IAD jA>jB>2C doesn't work, iAD jA>jA>2C works.

[Sophisticat]

^ I have to say that that variation has been a godsend. Makes the combo slightly easier to do.

I've also done a bit of testing today:

- For those having trouble with Hotaru -> IAD j.2c -> 2c -> etc., switch 2c to 5a. The combo becomes a fuckton easier.

- For 5c -> Renka(K) -> 2c -> forward j.Hotaru -> etc., it's really fsj.Hotaru. It's the best way to get that height you need to AD.

- [stuff that knocks down] -> 2c -> Gurren -> etc., is character-specific. I've identified Makoto and Ragna as culprits needing 2b -> Gurren instead, among others.

- Apparently, you can't Dustloop off 5D(!). At least, the other guys techs out before I can land 2c. Best to just go for meterless or 1s expenditure on this counter it would seem.

Also updating those counter combos asap.

[ryokoalways]

You don't need to forward jump for the renka>kishuu>2C>hotaru combo. The most important thing for that combo is the IAD timing.

For most characters, the window for the following j2C>2C>j2A is somewhat tight (Ragna is actually one of the exceptions in that the timing is super easy). The timing is affected by (in order of importance)

-How quick you IAD after hotaru

-The height you are at when you land hotaru

-The height of your opponent when you land hotaru

The IAD speed is most important because you do not have a means of adjusting that factor. You must get a very quick IAD off to connect on most characters (noel, Jin, etc).

For your height when the hit lands, you can adjust for the difference in j2C timing. If you are higher, then just delay slightly. This is not to help 2C land, but to make sure that j2A lands.

For opponent's height, while the variation is very small (2C doesn't cause too much float), if you land hotaru while they are at the peak, you will need to slightly delay the j2A to have it connect, otherwise your jump momentum slows and you don't reach the correct height in time.

Also, for tk hotaru, if you didn't get off a good IAD, use j2C>5B instead of 5A

Edited May 28, 2011 by ryokoalways

[Sophisticat]

Thanks for the correction, Ryoko. Always appreciated.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Nice info ryoko.

[zreb]

I thought the Renka(K) 2c Hotaru combo was a normal airdash and not IAD?

[ryokoalways]

Yeah I meant to say dash asap so IAD came out.

[MAdBater]

http://youtu.be/DJ1BmyEYW48?t

Did you guys know you could rapid cancel jd into a combo? At 4:38s the hakumen player does a rapid cancel combo with jd. Edited May 29, 2011 by MAdBater

[zdravkelja]

Yeah, I have been experimenting with that. Good if you are going for the kill. You have to catch them low or 5C won't connect.

[Sophisticat]

Is there any legit use for Zantetsu in combos? I believe this move went from situational use in CS to virtually worthless in CS2. It's simply not worth the expenditure when you have higher damage options for less mag.

It's still good as a conditioned overhead once in a while, though I'd only use if they're low on hp and I've got some mag to spare. Otherwise, it's trash.

[ryokoalways]

I forgot that move existed till you mentioned it.

[mAc Chaos]

I forgot that move existed till you mentioned it.

Hah, that's the same reason I actually land it on people sometimes.

But I also forgot it existed.

[MAdBater]

It is still a high damaging overhead and has reach so it has its purpose.

[YukiBlue]

Psh, Zantetsu is so last version.