Aginor Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 (edited) Discuss the match up here. The Good: - Steins can really restrict Valk's movement - Valk has no reversal options aside from super - Mu's DP beats a lot of Valk's rushdown options when he is in on you. The Bad: - Valk has really good mobility so it could be risky to AA him - Really can't let Valk mix you up. In other words, make him respect you. - Valk's 2C does a LOT of damage even if you trade with it. It trades in his favor so if you are going to jump in on him, expect a 2C. Edited July 30, 2011 by Aginor
Lythium Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 I'm getting completely blown up in this match-up. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
bakahyl Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 I avoid to jump in on him, because his wolf form is difficult to hit from the air and the wolf has a great anti-air that leads to a 3k+ combo. 236a might work sometimes to keep him away, but if you are too predictable he is able to avoid it with a good timed wolf air dash cancel and hop over it.
C0R Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Smart mash will beat wolf pressure, no respect, leave your boots on. Everything else loses to Laser Fortress, have fun.
pochp Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Smart mash Always 2A or sometimes 5A/5B/2B, do those moves whiff on the wolf in certain situations? And does it require instant blocking?
bakahyl Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 5a and 5b seem to whiff on wolf so 2a might work, but his normals are faster than your 2a. So like Cor said ,smart mashing
C0R Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Treat him like he's crouching while he's in wolf form. 5b will work at minimum range, but it's safer to 2a usually. Have no fear of his C-dash, it has a lot of startup and the period before he can perform a normal is quite long, even if the backdash version is invunerable for a short time. Just hit him out of it. This matchup is troublesome for most people because they let him fly around like he's superman and do whatever he wants, you have to punch him in the face, get him off you and keep throwing out command laser.
Lythium Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 Thanks for the advice, guys! Time to give this a shot.
Guardian Posted July 24, 2011 Posted July 24, 2011 5a will lose to [w]236a, and the 2a can lose to [w]5c~[w]j.A. You only want to counter poke wolf with 5/2a. Anything else will lose to a C back dash punish or a frame trap. So when C0R says smart, he really means SMART lol
C0R Posted July 24, 2011 Posted July 24, 2011 I meant along the lines of, you cannot respect him, he's too powerful when he's allowed to run anything unsafe, you NEED to scare him.
bakahyl Posted July 24, 2011 Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) Even though he can get away with most of his stuff, but when you poke him out of his wolf when he using his c dash with 5a or airthrow him (worked sometimes, but not when he is doing any of his 236 moves) a few times, it will make some people react by playing more defensively or try to rush you down differently . edit 1: don't mindlessly use your dp to mash , he can avoid it with his wolf airback dash/hop or whatever it is and you will take huge damage edit 2: i dont think you can set up a laser wall against him (atleast not against the valk players that i play). Every time i try it, he closes in on me way too fast before some steins can fire. Edited July 24, 2011 by bakahyl
Guardian Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 Trying to throw valk out of a c dash (esp on reaction) isn't the best idea; most of his options out of it (command grab, j.A)out range or beat air grab attempts, and you eat 2-4k for no reason. Isn't worth the risk imo. 5a/2a is always your best bet for the strats C0R presented.
bakahyl Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 Trying to throw valk out of a c dash (esp on reaction) isn't the best idea; most of his options out of it (command grab, j.A)out range or beat air grab attempts, and you eat 2-4k for no reason. Isn't worth the risk imo. 5a/2a is always your best bet for the strats C0R presented. my air throws are usually some kind of panic reaction when mu and valk are both air and when he is a little too close because like cor said in a different topic that her air throw has a suprisingly big hitbox. it's not like that i want to be in the air against valkenheyn because his 2c and wolf (b) are too good of an anti air.
Kiba Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 it's not like that i want to be in the air against valkenheyn because his 2c and wolf (b) are too good of an anti air. Valk's 2C isn't that good for an AA. It's lack of invulnerability allows it to trade with most others things (or everything) when timed right. Heck, I still use it for an AA, even though I really shouldn't be :3
Coopa Posted July 26, 2011 Posted July 26, 2011 Valk's 2C isn't that good for an AA. It's lack of invulnerability allows it to trade with most others things (or everything) when timed right. Heck, I still use it for an AA, even though I really shouldn't be :3 I'll trade your 2c for my 2c any day. Hitbox in the back. Lowers your damn hitbox. Godlike damage after it. Does it even fatal? I don't even remember. All I remember is that I don't jump in on Valk unless I have meter to rapid a delayed fall attack (like Tager's jump 2c).
C0R Posted July 26, 2011 Posted July 26, 2011 Valk's 2c does not fatal. Though it might was well with the damage you get off it.
Guardian Posted July 26, 2011 Posted July 26, 2011 It would actually be good for everyone except valk if his 2C was a FC b/c then he couldn't get like 5 in a combo lol. Valk's 2C is still a decent AA, just not gdlk like in CS1
Kiba Posted July 26, 2011 Posted July 26, 2011 I'll trade your 2c for my 2c any day. Really? Maybe I'm just hindering Valk's 2C because I always get hit out of it.... On a side note, roughly how much damage can you guys get off your CH 2C?
André Posted July 26, 2011 Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) Ok guys, I made a quick write-up on this match-up but based on analysis, my opinion and tests on training mode. My idea is that after this, you [The ones that have competition] can correct(if necessary) and add more information, and I'm just trying to help. If the idea goes well, I can begin to make another about another character. After we add more info, Aginor can put it on the first post if you all approve. Well, here goes. Match Ranking: I'd call it even. Momentum based. Recommended playstyle: Agressive. Get on his face and don't give him space to breathe. Your 2C beat his j.C. When you see him going for it, use 2C. You win in the air. Mu's j.C > Valk's air normals. Also, don't jump on him. [w]5B will win against any jump in. Your 5C is faster than his. Remember this. And DON'T use 6C in this match-up. He can wolf dash through it and get a CH. Ama no Habaya is good, but don't abuse it. If he blocks from a distance, you can either put a stein out or rush him. If he jumps over it, you can airthrow for 2k. But if he wolf dashes...5A/2A. SoD only when is at least level 2. It can beat [w]4C. Ame no Totsuka is good but have at least 2 steins. And you won't always have time for that. If you'll do it, make sure to have a good distance between Mu and Valk. Otherwise he will get on your face quickly. Ame no Habakiri lockdown with steins in the corner is GREAT on this match, since he has only 4 primers and NO reversals until he builds 50 meter. You need one guard break on the corner to seal the match. Defensive-wise, don't get hit by his C moves, 5B, 6B and Nacht Rozen. It will hurt. [Need confirmation on 5C normal hit. I know that on CH it hurts.] Be careful when he has 50 meter, because he will have access to Schwarz Jagd RC. (Low move. 120% bonus prorate.) I don't have knowledge about how to block wolf mixup, only the "use 5A/2A and block well" thing. That's the maximum I could do. Well, I hope I could help somehow. Please correct me if needed and tell me if you like the idea/allow me to do another. Edited July 26, 2011 by André
xntrikcat Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Pretty much copy what sakuma does for this matchup D= I started winning more vs Valk after I listened to C0r and started punching the wolfman in the face. The idea is to make him afraid of just running up in wolf form. Make him use his wolf shenanigans (not that he doesn't, but make sure that's the only way he's going to get in), and meet him in the air, preferably while you're IAD back j.c'ing. One of the most rage inducing matchups though, especially if you drop the tricky 6b timing and he comes back to Lol2c you for over an ungodly amount of damage.
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