LunarSelenia Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) keeping her uncomfortable on the ground and doing fast horizontal lasers is serving me right until now Solar does that a lot to me. Since jumping in with Tsubaki is a bad idea (yet sometimes I jump anyway >.<;; ), make it uncomfortable for her to close in, make her second guess her approaches. Make Tsubaki respect you and scare her to your advantage. It's really all about keeping your momentum in this. If I EVER do a 236x approach, it's when it's safe, with no steins close to the ground (hahahaha like that'll ever happen in my matches) and when Solar doesn't expect it (to avoid her throwing out Habaya). Charging straight into a stein is never good, two of your options will catch Tsubaki with good stein positioning: explosion or totsuka. I stick with barrier dashing, which is optimal to use in Tsubaki's case because she can stop her run to barrier and block Habaya if it's thrown out, or if you throw out a 5C. Her 236x series is an option to close distance with other characters, but Mu is not one of them. Lots of Habaya and Totsuka from fullscreen works real well. Just don't be predictable about it and space right. If you don't she'll 214x through Habaya/SoD stuffs real easily and you get CH. Don't get over confident with DP'ing out all the time cause smart Tsu's will start baiting it. IB > backdash can be useful for getting out of her pressure if you're not in the corner. CA is also your friend in this matchup. Don't approach her from the air, she's got stupid good AA options. SPACING is super important versus Tsu. Her everything is faster than yours so if you're not spaced right you will get poked out for sure. Don't try to set up more than one stein at a time unless you knock her down, and don't bother with Habakiri in neutral. Don't send out Totsuka unless you're a decent distance away cause she is fast and can run up and jab you out before the laser starts. Learn the range on her 5B and stay OUT of it in neutral. If you do that right 5C will beat it out every time. In one of our matches you threw out Totsuka with 3 steins out and I got locked in the middle of that. That was fun X__X;;; Like Solar says, as far as Habaya goes, the only thing you do have to watch out for is Tsubaki's 214x series if you become predictable with Habaya. With charge, she'll cut right through it with 214D. Her other 214x series have varied invul frames so take advantage of that, they simply cannot press a 214x and cut through Habaya each time. Mu's Habaya is also not a "get out of free" card, but it's a good tool to use when used effectively. I haven't tested it out, but I do believe that 214D is the only one you should be wary for. 214C has too much startup frames before it actually hits (that you could dash 2B and punish since 214x only has head/body invul), and I believe 214B is not reliable because it's hard to cut through Habaya with her 214B invul frames unless done at the right time. I really have yet to test that out with Solar sometime, but I do know I've cut through Habaya at the cost of one charge for 214D effectively, but 214B (and I don't even want to try the C variant) will leave you in a good enough position to backdash, zone her out, leave a stein, and frustrate her. Or her invul will run out on 214B and she'll get hit by Habaya. But like I said, I have yet to test it out effectively, this is just observation in my many matches against Solar. My long 2 cents worth XD Edited August 1, 2011 by LunarSelenia
Airk Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 Solar does that a lot to me. Since jumping in with Tsubaki is a bad idea (yet sometimes I jump anyway >.<;; ), make it uncomfortable for her to close in, make her second guess her approaches. Make Tsubaki respect you and scare her to your advantage. It's really all about keeping your momentum in this. If I EVER do a 236x approach, it's when it's safe, with no steins close to the ground (hahahaha like that'll ever happen in my matches) and when Solar doesn't expect it (to avoid her throwing out Habaya). Charging straight into a stein is never good, two of your options will catch Tsubaki with good stein positioning: explosion or totsuka. I stick with barrier dashing, which is optimal to use in Tsubaki's case because she can stop her run to barrier and block Habaya if it's thrown out, or if you throw out a 5C. Her 236x series is an option to close distance with other characters, but Mu is not one of them. This really depends on Stein placement; Steins that are closer to Tsubaki are actually LESS of a threat, because by the time Mu has done something to make them dangerous, you'll be past them. It's Steins that are towards Mu's end of the field that are risky to try to zip in on. I think a lot of the frustration some Mu players have with Tsubaki matches is just inexperience - she controls the ground in a way a lot of characters don't, so things that are okay vs Ragna and Jin are NOT OKAY AT ALL against her, and vice versa. In one of our matches you threw out Totsuka with 3 steins out and I got locked in the middle of that. That was fun X__X;;; The funny thing about this is that, fundamentally, it's still not actually SCARY. Just like Mu has to learn to just be patient and block until the right moment when under pressure, the same concept applies here - Totsuka + steins alone isn't really a threat unless you're pushing buttons, you just have to block and keep an eye on Mu; The only real problem this creates is the fact that she can use the blockstun created to set it up again. If you have time, jump barrier to eliminate potential mixups. I really have yet to test that out with Solar sometime, but I do know I've cut through Habaya at the cost of one charge for 214D effectively, but 214B (and I don't even want to try the C variant) will leave you in a good enough position to backdash, zone her out, leave a stein, and frustrate her. Or her invul will run out on 214B and she'll get hit by Habaya. But like I said, I have yet to test it out effectively, this is just observation in my many matches against Solar. 214C works at a certain distance - it's actually the easiest to use to go through the projectile since it has the most invulnerability frames - but unless you are VERY fast and basically read the Habaya coming out, it doesn't really get you anywhere because Mu will recover and be able to block before you hit her. (You'd have to 'react' to Habaya in the first like...13 frames or something, which in the realm of predictions, not reactions.) 214D doesn't actually have THAT much more invulnerability than 214B though, so someone with enough practice should be able to react to Habaya with 214B without too much trouble, so it's probably wisest to just understand the range 214B/D travel (They go the same distance, I believe, and it's not all that far.) and not do Habaya from inside that range (There are probably better options at that range anyway - like 5C). 214D is more threatening when used to cancel a 236 move, generally.
SolarMisae Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 It's not about being scary it's about pinning you down and forcing respect. If Tsu can't move she'll lose. You know what enough of this I'm done.
Kiba Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 The way this is going on makes it seem as if this is Mu's most stressful match or something.
SolarMisae Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) It really isn't tbqh. I fight this matchup every day, it's not stressful lol. Airk is kinda dissecting it too much. The gameplan is basically to keep Tsubaki blocking and don't let her charge. Thats it. 214x isn't scary. It's all a guessing game when it comes down to those. I've done extensive messing around with it but i'm not going there. The matchup feels close to even, maybe slightly in Mu's favor. Seriously momentum based, thats all there is to it really. Edited August 1, 2011 by SolarMisae
YukiBlue Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 Generic Rules Apply. Keep her out. Zone. Keep Momentum Setups + Stein Placement TL;DR - Play a good Mu. Seriously, Can we focus all of this enthusiasm onto Noel and Bang now? Pl0x.
SolarMisae Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 TL;DR - Play a good Mu. Pretty much that yeah. And I would if I fought any Noels. And I'll try and play against the Bang I know more often.
Airk Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 Sorry; Dissecting things is just what I do. Since that's apparently not how you guys roll around here, I'll shut up.
Kiba Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) Airk you're doing it again. Ima kill you. If you're looking for a basic approach around how to get about this matchup, then look at Cor's or even Yukiblue's. They sum it up briefly. If you're looking for something more in depth and specific whilst covering minor stuff such as punishes, read Airk's post. posts coming from both parts are really helpful. On the on end you guys should be happy you're getting information from a Tsubaki player (although I'm not suggesting that you guys are unappreciative.) I will be honest though, I feel like you guys are circuling around the same subject. I see 214D mentioned alot of instance. Edited August 1, 2011 by Kiba
LunarSelenia Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 >>;; I will say I learned a lot thanks to this thread compared to when I originally posted. Even though my posts get dissected, I'm glad to be directed the right way. *hides* ;__;
Ginseng Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 Disclaimer: The opinions and information expressed by Tsubaki players in this forum may not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Tsubaki moderators (most notably Ginseng) and other actual players. Thank you, Ginseng
C0R Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 Disclaimer: The opinions and information expressed by Tsubaki players in this forum may not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Tsubaki moderators (most notably Ginseng) and other actual players. Thank you, Ginseng You are no longer liable for any further actions or opinions expressed by relevant players, but feel free to take all the credit.
SolarMisae Posted August 3, 2011 Posted August 3, 2011 Ginseng: No worries, s'all good man. pk: You don't wanna know. Kay now, move along peeps nothing to see here. Just keep doin' what you're doing.
cookiehours Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I just started learning this match in Extend and already it frustrates me. I think I'll watch some videos and see what I'm not doing right. Rush her down, get smacked in the face. Zone her, she charges. Edited January 17, 2012 by cookiehours
C0R Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Tsubaki's charge game is now less than mediocre, feel free to zone all day long and she shouldn't be able to get enough charge to make anything dangerous.
cookiehours Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Tsubaki's charge game is now less than mediocre, feel free to zone all day long and she shouldn't be able to get enough charge to make anything dangerous. I need more matchup experience with her. I just got so frustrated tonight damnit. ._.
Aginor Posted January 17, 2012 Author Posted January 17, 2012 Tsubaki's charge game is now less than mediocre, feel free to zone all day long and she shouldn't be able to get enough charge to make anything dangerous. This. No reason to go in. If anything just watch out for the 214b but even then....it shouldn't really matter.
cookiehours Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 This. No reason to go in. If anything just watch out for the 214b but even then....it shouldn't really matter. Okay, zone, keep her out and push her into the corner. Gotcha.
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