One of the many "Hi, I'm from SF4 and need help learning wtf is going on" threads

[Fluck]

This belongs in the Carl forums but:

Carl is a character with amazing offense but in return for that he has bad defense, so you need to suck it up when you're getting pressured in the corner. He lacks a true Shoryuken without meter so there is not much you can do. Vivace is invulnerable to head and body attacks but is vulnerable to foot property attacks, meaning crouching attacks and sweeps usually, so it's hard to use it without a very strong read. With meter you can do Rhapsody of Memories super and Nirvana's attack will almost always come out, hitting the opponent or forcing him to block.

With Carl you need to know the opponent's attacks well and know when in the string you can jab out, backdash, or jump out, it's not an easy thing to do at all. You'll need practice and experience.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Fluck

[Manta]

632146C is reversalish. It's invulnerable until the superflash, but the gear goes active 3 frames later but is guaranteed to appear if you see the superflash. Basically means it trades with everything.

[Mr Oso]

^^^

Not to sure about that

[Manta]

^^^

Not to sure about that

s'what the frame data says, I know it's not quite the word of God, but it's close.

EDIT: Now that I mention it, Regalstirling have you noticed the frame data button at the top of the forum? Useful stuff.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Manta

[Regalstirling]

Thanks everyone! I am again amazed by the helpful, responsive community here.

it seems my issue rightnow is adjusting to the LONG blockstring and understanding when they end/how to get out. Im working on it. The well timed vivace seems like a good plan.

And yes, I have seen the frame data a bit. Ive never been huge on knowing data, just some basic stuff like: zangiefs SPD is one frame, while akuma's raging demon is zero frames. Ryu can wakeup SRK in 3 frames. But as far as really knowing how much something is plus or minus on block, I didnt feel like I had to know. sometime sI would look it up jus tto know if a move was "safe"ish or not, but rarely did I come up with my own frametraps or anything, just stole them from pros if I used them.

[Manta]

Thanks everyone! I am again amazed by the helpful, responsive community here.

it seems my issue rightnow is adjusting to the LONG blockstring and understanding when they end/how to get out. Im working on it. The well timed vivace seems like a good plan.

And yes, I have seen the frame data a bit. Ive never been huge on knowing data, just some basic stuff like: zangiefs SPD is one frame, while akuma's raging demon is zero frames. Ryu can wakeup SRK in 3 frames. But as far as really knowing how much something is plus or minus on block, I didnt feel like I had to know. sometime sI would look it up jus tto know if a move was "safe"ish or not, but rarely did I come up with my own frametraps or anything, just stole them from pros if I used them.

When it comes to Carl, frame data and frame advantage is a fuzzy concept, because in theory Nirvana can make anything you do safe if your timing is on (And given Carl's normal move frame advantages, this is something of a necessity, as are defensive jump cancels). But it is useful to know which moves of an opponent's are unsafe and what your quickest moves are. Your jabs goes active on the 7th frame, and your throws 8th which is average, but your range is poor, which is a major part of the problem. Useful to know that A Vivace is only head invulnerable (Immune to most humping attacks, very few other moves are head-only) and B vivaces is immune to Head and Body, meaning anything with foot can hit you, basically every low hit and every hit that looks like it reaches to the floor. Also it's useful to look at the system guide, which tells you useful nuggets like it's impossible to guard in jump startup and learn just how long your backdash leaves you vulnerable.

[mAc Chaos]

It would just suck if Carl had great defense after you finally got out of all the doll mixups and managed to pin him down. The little bastard is slippery enough as it is.

[SolarMisae]

Immune to most humping attacks

Whats this? This game is supposed to be rated T.

[Manta]

Whats this? This game is supposed to be rated T.

Well, for the record, it isn't. Tager bends carl over his knee against that move.

[Airk]

B-Vivace is head AND body invulnerable, so can get you out of way more spots than the A version. There's some vulnerability at the end though, and it can be caught by foot-property attacks (Generally lows and moves that come up out of the ground, like Jin's 2D and Ragna's Dead Spike.).

As Reverals, Carl's supers leave a bit to be desired as well - if you really want out of the corner and can't find space for Vivace, I suggest a counter assault. It costs 50 heat, but it gets them out of your face something fierce. That should really be a last resort though - barrier followed by jump out should work in a lot of situations if people don't anticipate it.

[Psykotik]

Not sure how viable this actually is but I've been using 236236D as a reversal whenever I have the health to trade and it works pretty well since they're in a bad position whether they block it or get hit and from there, you can go for a mixup. It can be beat by throws though.

[EmptySkyForm]

Some points to know:

You cannot spam your way to victory. If you hate spammers then good for you.

Fireball wars don't exist.

Playing to win involves actually learning damaging combos, single hits don't win games (unless they are final hits or Astrals).

Characters are more balanced.

Just my opinion: hard to get started but once you do, it becomes the greatest fighting game with no equal (except Guilty Gear, maybe).

All the characters are unique, generally don't have many overlapping moves (Ex. Ryu and Ken, almost identical).

[Domethieus]

Eh, I figure might as well post in here. What's a good character to learn for footsies? I'm trying to learn SF to get a better understanding of Footsies. Learning Ryu so it kind of fixes that for a bit.

[Linear04]

i dont think bb has any characters that uses footsies well because of how the game is, but i think trying to use long range normals at max range like litchis and ragna's stuff could help

[McArthur]

footsies? go tager

[Manta]

And Hakumen, see a post by me a few pages back.

[Airk]

Ragna is pretty good for footsies, actually - if you force yourself to play them. You don't need footsies to win as a scrub Ragna, but they're actually one of his strengths at higher level play because his normals have pretty good reach. If Ragna wants to win a match against, say, Makoto, he has GOT to play the footsies and spacing game properly.

[Doctrine Dark]

After lurking for a good while, I figured it's time to stop being shy and post.

Well, I'm also one of those SF4/MVC3 players who's been playing BB since CT. For some reason, I just don't know how get good at this game. I main Tsubaki in CS2, and after playing online last night, I think my main problem is the fact that I get lost in certain situations during the battle. Once I land a BnB combo, I usually go for a weak mix-up which ends up getting punished because I suck; also can never seem to finish an air combo. Almost never use the burst when I'm being pressured, and I suck at teching throws.

I have a good understanding of basic things (thanks to Rachel and the Tutorial Mode), but I still suck in actual battles. I'm usually sorta nervous to enter a room online and embarrass myself. Is there anything I can do in Training Mode to change this? Or is Tsubaki not the best choice for someone who's a beginner? I've used her since CS1 as well.

[Manta]

Go into training mode and set the bot to block and tech as randomly as the settings allow. And then try to wail on it as best you can, whilst looking at all of the opportunities a real opponent could've punished you. It's great for practising your hit-confirming and learning which combos you should use based on what you actually managed to hit them with. Obviously not good at learning how to defend yourself. But then that is actually only learnable against humans.

[Airk]

Honestly? Try playing against the CPU on max skill level. It should at least teach you some of what doesn't work and it'll help you work on your hitconfirms and the like as well.

Also, if your internet connection isn't too bad, I could meet you for a few matches on XBL; I'm no expert, but I too can tell you some stuff not to do, and maybe some places to work on. (I'm a Tsubaki player as well.)

[YukiBlue]

First things first. I honestly sucked so much ass at this game last November. I was horrifically bad. Spamming attacks, mashing buttons ect ect.

1) Pick a Main

2) Go to the characters sub forum

3) Lurk HARD

4) Take some combos, Learn them, Read Strats

5) Watch Japanese Tournament players, see what they do and imitate and steal ideas

6) Have fun and dont think of it as work

7) Repeat steps 3, 4, 5 now and then.

[Doctrine Dark]

Thanks a lot for the suggestions, guys. Gonna take everything you guys said into consideration. I'm also going to focus more on completing Tsubaki's challenges, hoping it'll give me a better feel for her. I think I'm stuck on the 4th challenges right now. Also went over the Tutorial again. It refreshed my mind a good bit, with bursting, Barrier Guard, Throw Teching, etc. Felt good going over it again. I just gotta have fun with learning the system instead of getting down every time I get all herp derp during the battle.

And thanks for the offer, Airk. I only play CS2 on PSN currently, but I'll probably end up playing it on both soon.

[Rhiya]

I only play CS2 on PSN currently, but I'll probably end up playing it on both soon.

You have a mic?

I run Tsubaki myself, and can yell some tips at you while you play, if you'd like. You really do need to get combos down, though, or at least the major combo parts. The timing on Tsubaki's non-DP whiff combos isn't that bad, though. You'll get it soon, and if you run into a wall, drop by the Tsubaki forums and ask for exec tips. You'd be surprised how often one piece of knowledge can make the difference between a combo being stupid hard and manageable.

[Doctrine Dark]

Unfortunately I don't have a mic right now. The "yelling tips" idea sounds dope as hell, though. Ha!

Yeah, I definitely agree that I have to get her combos down. I don't feel confident in performing her normal BnB's consistently right now, so I feel like I have to get comfortable doing those in an actual match before I can learn her more advanced stuff. Not gonna lie, reading about her non-DP whiff combos and watching videos of her other advanced combos made me wonder if I could ever pull those off, but I just gotta get the timing down, and practice of course. I think one of my other glaring issues when it comes to getting her combos down are from my inputs, which can either be too slow or too fast--especially when it comes to performing an air combo.

I think the Tsubaki forums will help me a lot going forward. Thanks for the help!

[Airk]

Unfortunately I don't have a mic right now. The "yelling tips" idea sounds dope as hell, though. Ha!

For some reason, I can't help but think of this: