Lucien Posted May 24, 2012 Posted May 24, 2012 I wouldn't expect that to be 3 times in a row. Thanks. I used to think that it meant something too, but after reading shtkn's posts for the last 2 years I've learned that he misspells "the" and "that" intentionally ahah.
shtkn Posted May 24, 2012 Posted May 24, 2012 lol it's not intentional, i'm just lazy. same reason why i almost never capitalize letters
Jyosua Posted May 24, 2012 Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) Your signature tells me otherwise, lol. So, prompted by LK telling me my spacing was really poor, I was looking into the Litchi Wins, I mean, Litchi vs Jin matchup. I've been watching videos (which by the way, we need more of this matchup in the video thread ) and so far the only thing I see jins doing consistently is run-up barrier block, waiting for litchi to send out her staff; dodge it; and then jump in like crazy (If I'm right, I think this is because her staff IS her only anti air), and run-up jump-ins (I assume this is because if you do a blatantly obvious jump-in Litchi will simply AA it, provided she has the staff). Also Itsuu appears to be punisheable after blocking the first hit (excluding the AA followup)? Is that true? Also it looks like you can punish litchi's 3C[m] with 6B if you're not in blockstun... I'm kinda struggling with this matchup, so can anyone give me some advice? Matchup threads are all stagnant btw... why aren't we filling those out? Edited May 24, 2012 by Jyosua
Moy_X7 Posted May 24, 2012 Posted May 24, 2012 @Cadacus - noted, I'll add that extra 6C to that combo. @Jyo - Yup, you gotta do a lot of dash > Barrier to bait her pokes and Itsuu GP. Itsuu C (forward) can be punished; block the first hit and immediately dash forward + 5B and hit-confirm the 5B(1) CH. You can dodge the second hit of Itsuu A (downward) by simply jumping over it; this one can't be punished. For Itsuu B (anti-air), you have to just IB the second hit as there's nothing you can do up there. Guess how I found out about all this? Yup, training mode. Come on people, you've got training mode available, I shouldn't have to be testing everything out for you. I'm gonna go ahead and at least add a list of punishable/- moves for every character in the match-up threads. I haven't added more info to the match-up threads because I don't really have all that much match-up experience in some matches.
Jyosua Posted May 24, 2012 Posted May 24, 2012 Well personally, I suck at timing things in training mode... having to press another button to get the dummy to do what I want throws me off. Otherwise I'd be using it for more than practicing pressure and combos.
Moy_X7 Posted May 24, 2012 Posted May 24, 2012 lol wut? There's no timing involved here. You just set her to do Itsuu and block it. Simple as that, no timing involved.
shtkn Posted May 24, 2012 Posted May 24, 2012 seriously, if you can't use training mode in bb to test stuff by yourself, then you're losing such an important tool. trust me, training modes in most other games are shit compared to the ones in bb/gg. the record/playback feature in bb is great! Multiple record/playback slots + random playback allows you to practice blocking versus enemy blockstrings, neutral game stuff, etc. it's amazing. ppl colloquially call the training mode the lab because it's so much more than just practicing combos. it's where you go to experiment with setups, defense, etc. keep getting hit by certain attack? record it, experiment and try to figure out counters. can't block an overhead? record a blockstring that have the overhead and one without, set the playback to random, and practice blocking
Moy_X7 Posted May 24, 2012 Posted May 24, 2012 What shtkn said. You'd be amazed at how much better you get at blocking overheads by just setting the AI to do random blockstrings with one of them having an OH. Example using Ragna Slot 1 - 66 2A x n > tick throw Slot 2 - 66 2A x n > 6B Slot 3 - 66 2A x n > GH Slot 4 - 66 2A x n > 2D You'll eventually get used to the OH's animation and your ability to block OHs will improve.
Jyosua Posted May 24, 2012 Posted May 24, 2012 Actually I knew aobut what shtkn said, but I don't know other character blockstrings or movesets, for the most part. It would be helpful if there was a "Ye olde list of common character blockstrings", but theres not. I'll try what you suggested though, Moy. Also I can react to overheads that I am aware of, but online is generally a nogo unless I yomi it.
Moy_X7 Posted May 24, 2012 Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) You don't even have to know block strings unless you're fighting Rachel who can use her winded instant overhead. It's as simple as this: Slot 1: Jab string + tick throw Slot 2: Jab string + OH Slot 3: Jab string + low Slot 4: Jab string + either filler or a move used to reset pressure such as Jin's 6D, Ragna's DS, Tsubaki's 22X series, etc. Reason being is that no player is just gonna use the same string again unless they're being auto-pilot than a bitch and being auto-pilot is a huge no-no in fighting games. We know that most characters can go for either a tick throw, and overhead, or a low after a jab. Really, the only thing you have to do is learn to react to the specific character OH(s). Tick throws are universal and are usually easily telegraphed judging the distance between you and your opponent. Except air throws, those things have a ridiculously stupid hit-box. I've been noticing that lower level/new players are always asking people about blockstrings. lol no, those things are overrated. Just know how the normals work and what gatlings into OHs as well as the frame data. Other character block strings should be the least of your worries but you do have to understand frame data so that you don't get caught with some bullshitty pressure. Edited May 24, 2012 by Moy_X7
Jyosua Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 You don't even have to know block strings unless you're fighting Rachel who can use her winded instant overhead. It's as simple as this: Slot 1: Jab string + tick throw Slot 2: Jab string + OH Slot 3: Jab string + low Slot 4: Jab string + either filler or a move used to reset pressure such as Jin's 6D, Ragna's DS, Tsubaki's 22X series, etc. Reason being is that no player is just gonna use the same string again unless they're being auto-pilot than a bitch and being auto-pilot is a huge no-no in fighting games. We know that most characters can go for either a tick throw, and overhead, or a low after a jab. Really, the only thing you have to do is learn to react to the specific character OH(s). Tick throws are universal and are usually easily telegraphed judging the distance between you and your opponent. Except air throws, those things have a ridiculously stupid hit-box. I've been noticing that lower level/new players are always asking people about blockstrings. lol no, those things are overrated. Just know how the normals work and what gatlings into OHs as well as the frame data. Other character block strings should be the least of your worries but you do have to understand frame data so that you don't get caught with some bullshitty pressure. Well yeah, the problem is that pressure and strings that should work on a good player won't work well online because everyone's a mashy motherfucker online. That's why people ask about blockstrings. They essentially want to know a bunch of continual frametraps that end in a reset.
Moy_X7 Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 I can understand knowing your own character(s) block strings but you don't really have to know other character's blockstrings as long as you're not a mashy mofo yourself lol. Like I said, just know the frame data, know the OH gatlings and you'll be good to go for the most part. Also, here's a frame trap string for you. 2A > (Delayed) 2A > (Delayed) 2A > (Delayed) 5C. I got you with it a couple of times yesterday. Something as simple as a jab can be turned into a frame trap lol.
Jyosua Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Wah, you can delay the 5C and still frametrap after 2A? Damn. Yeah I've got a better idea of how Jin's pressure should work now, but dem mashers. For additional lulz, I fought a Tager on ranked that lagged so bad purple throws could not be teched. He got me with untechable supers. I tried to throw loop him, but I fucked up the timing with the lag and he mashed a super. Why is online so mashy?
xlolxlolx Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 jin's pressure is pretty shit unless it on midair opponent lol if you dont want uber laggy matches then play with ppl only 2+ delay, but yeah.....you shouldnt worry about reaction blocking overheads until you can tech like 80-90% of throws on reaction
Jyosua Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 jin's pressure is pretty shit unless it on midair opponent lol if you dont want uber laggy matches then play with ppl only 2+ delay, but yeah.....you shouldnt worry about reaction blocking overheads until you can tech like 80-90% of throws on reaction I fought Guardian today, and I swear to god I teched a shitton of those throws. After I see someone actively going for tick throws, I'm more alert about it. I can also reaction block the overheads of characters I fight against often: Relius, Ragna, Tsubaki (kinda, just not online), some Litchi (she has so many that I occasionally miss some, and online causes me to miss more), and a couple others. I think my reactions are just shitty enough that I can barely react IRL in time, but online is a definite no. I was blocking shit in Offline casuals that surprised the hell out of me. Yeah see, I discovered that a rating of "3" on ranked actually means how close they are to you, not how much lag they have. I guess I have to keep filtering by connection still... Also forever free to bangs standing overhead. That shit's fast.
Moy_X7 Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 lol, I'm pretty damn free to Bang's 5C myself, better practice blocking it lol.
Jyosua Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 lol, I'm pretty damn free to Bang's 5C myself, better practice blocking it lol. I just realized why I'm so free to it. It's one frame faster than ours... the fuck is this shit?
Moy_X7 Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 I just realized why I'm so free to it. It's one frame faster than ours... the fuck is this shit? It actually takes a while to hit crouchers, 24 frames to be exact. I just practiced it and I can block it pretty often now, same with his 6B. I can't block Jin's 6A or Makoto's 6B for shit though lol.
xlolxlolx Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 makoto's 6b is pretty easy for me cuz if shes not crouching down to do a low then its obviously gonna be a high almost all the time. i can still reaction block 6a cuz of the derp wind up sound, plus theres only 3 ways to gattle into it lol
kirk Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Anyway some random shit lol if you ever run up dp> rc on some strings and it happened to land(corner) 623C > RC > Crossunder* 6C> 6623B > 6C > 6D > IAD > j2C > jC > 665B > 5C > 3C > 214C 3134dmg 37 meter *only applies when you're in the corner.
Jyosua Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 makoto's 6b is pretty easy for me cuz if shes not crouching down to do a low then its obviously gonna be a high almost all the time. That's good advice. I'm gonna have to try that.
Jyosua Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 So I discovered today (right before a tournament, no less!) that you can combo after a midscreen 623B using 214D, even if it's not a counterhit. It's pretty fuckin' sweet. The bad news is that I almost won my first match in the tournament against TheGreatReptar/TerraCrash (Tsubaki player), but choked at the end of the last round I needed to win for 2-0. He the proceeded to runback. 1-2. The even worse news is that I got eliminated by a particular Noel's fraudulent spam of 2D and 4D any time I came near him (in the case of 4D) and any time I did a low or mid move in my blockstring (in the case of 2D).
Jourdal Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 (edited) Fuck noel,623b untech is lol so yeah you can do some fun stuff. I fucked up in tourney too this weekend its all good, keep trying so long as its fun. Also jyo,lk said i needed to work on spacing as well and not be as scared, but his litchi is even more nuts in person... Edited May 29, 2012 by Jourdal
Jyosua Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 Fuck noel,623b untech is lol so yeah you can do some fun stuff. I fucked up in tourney too this weekend its all good, keep trying so long as its fun. Also jyo,lk said i needed to work on spacing as well and not be as scared, but his litchi is even more nuts in person... IIRC, 623B got a buff in untech time, no? Either way this discovery is going to lead to some more fun for me, especially since I love using it against Ragna. Yeah... I really hate noel... Lol, how did you know LK has been criticizing me for that? To be fair, I'm an awful player. I know that. It doesn't matter how much I practice combos or try to come up with new pressure and gimmicks, I simply don't have enough experience to space well, think very fast on my feet, and react all the time. I'll get better eventually, and LK did try to help me out last night and I really appreciate that. Every time I get super frustrated at this game, someone is nice enough to try to give me pointers to sort out my problems. I have to be thankful for that.
Jourdal Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 Oh you mentioned he said that a few pages back lol. He told me the same thing so it came to mind. "I'll get better eventually" this is what i've been wanting to hear from you. You get down on yourself so often lol. Thats no good. I'm immune to frustration in this game unless i drop my combos I'm generally almost always having fun lol. You get an even start with persona, everyone will be new so you can go the fuck in on that game. I know i will.
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