[CSE] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[Tong]

Yes, it says that you all should win tournaments with this S-Tier character.

[LuminAbyss]

It says fundies are S-tier.

AS THEY SHOULD BE.

[mAc Chaos]

I really don't think Ragna is going to drop on the tier lists this time around; at worst he will drop to high A-Tier. Spirit Juice brought up the best point for are argument in that no character has been able to jump up the tier lists due to stuff being found out. Example of this would be Litchi was like C-Tier when CS2 first came out then was A-Tier in the games final tier list.

Japan has had Extend on consoles for over a month now and they are still putting Ragna as S-Tier. Oh and the CS1 argument is really weak considering how vastly different that game was compared to this current version.

In CT, Carl started out as complete ass and then shot up the list when the infinites were found. And Litchi was mid tier but became A tier towards the end, at least in LK's opinion.

[LuminAbyss]

Tier lists don't matter.

Just play the character you like, everyone has a fighting chance.

Learn match-ups.

Win games.

Boom.

[Spirit Juice]

Tier lists always matter. Get that Candy Land, Carebear bullshit out of here.

[Fluck]

Honestly enough time has passed that Ragna's tier placing won't change much.

Tong, Ragna IS easy to block compared to the rest of the cast. He just makes up for it with more damage.

[LuminAbyss]

Outside of Rachel, Valkenhayn and Carl, the rest of the cast really isn't that hard to block.

[Fluck]

Outside of Rachel, Valkenhayn and Carl, the rest of the cast really isn't that hard to block.

Lambda is way harder to block than Ragna with just 4B + sickle oki alone, nevermind crescent feints. Bang has command grabs, automatically harder to block. Hazama is about 20 times harder to block than Ragna. Litchi, wayyyy harder to block thanks to faster overheads and free-form staffless pressure + staff setups. Makoto is definitely harder to block, just based on 6B and her command crossups. You don't block Tager either, you just guess. Blocking Tao is definitely harder too.

[MashThat5A]

things i wouldn't approve of in this thread:

• overuse of off-topic discussion
  
• tier list discussion
  
• combo theory (combo thread)
  

:/

6D>jc delay j.D doesn't work on Noel, Tao, Plat, or Rachel

6D>jc delay j.D>5B does work on Valk, but 6D>jc delay j.D>5B>5D(2) doesn't, so you're forced to use the 5A version anyway.

Freaking Valk hitbox

EDIT: While this is very burst safe, it's not 100% burst safe.

Edited January 20, 2012 by MashThat5A

[LuminAbyss]

Why not just use 6D > delay j.D > 5D(2)? Works on everyone as far as I know.

[WolfCrimson]

Man... I wish I had Extend, I'm reading all this constructive Ragna discussion and I'm sad I can't be a part of it... yet.

Anywho, 6B midcombo looks like ass (aesthetically I mean). But eh, he gets good damage because of it. Personally I wished they made Ragna mix-up better ( safer, harder to react to) rather than average mixup with really high damage, but that's just me. Now he's a complete character, who rewards good fundamentals play with high damage. 2A pressure so good.

[KayEff]

Why not just use 6D > delay j.D > 5D(2)? Works on everyone as far as I know.

if mash is doing the setups correctly, then it would mean that 6D can be altered to provide burst safe setups, in turn for worse damage, but with still complete oki this time around.

of course if the opponent doesn't have any bursts then 6D delay j.D 5D stuff is encouraged by all means

Man... I wish I had Extend, I'm reading all this constructive Ragna discussion and I'm sad I can't be a part of it... yet.

by all means join the discussion; you shouldn't have to feel left out just because you aren't as skilled and knowledgeable as some of us (no offense).

you're entitled by all means to ask dumb (and relevant) questions. while some of us will try and blow you up for asking stupid questions, the only thing that should matter to you is that you learn something off of the community's answers.

Edited January 24, 2012 by KayEff

[WolfCrimson]

by all means join the discussion; you shouldn't have to feel left out just because you aren't as skilled and knowledgeable as some of us (no offense).

you're entitled by all means to ask dumb (and relevant) questions. while some of us will try and blow you up for asking stupid questions, the only thing that should matter to you is that you learn something off of the community's answers.

I meant that I can't contribute as much as you guys do because I don't have the game yet (i don't know if I am more or less skilled than you guys, because I haven't really played against anyone here). I can't test out things, contribute match-up experience, etc etc.

Edit: Also check out my new avi (Credit goes to Tong)

[xlolxlolx]

no harm in theorycrafting bro

[ADS627]

Stupid Question: On hit or block, is there any reason to rapid cancel 6D? the other day i was in training mode and just RC'ed it then thought "Why did i do that?" I'm pretty lazy so didnt feel like exploring it too much.

[Tong]

Not really, waste of mater.

Unless there's some obscure gimmick involving it.

[LuminAbyss]

There isn't, the only think I could think of is rapid cancelling into a j.C or some shit., but people expect an overhead after 6D anyway.

though you could always rapid > Land > 2B, but it might just be better to j.D (whiff) for the added mindgames and conservation of meter.

[WolfCrimson]

Hey, can 6D be used to set up a fuzzy guard mixup on medium-tall characters? Like xx>6D>jD> land 2B / j.c.>jC . It might work due to jC buff, but I don't have the game, so I can't test it.

Edited January 26, 2012 by WolfCrimson

[LuminAbyss]

After the j.D, you can land and do a rising j.C and it should work.

[WolfCrimson]

Whoa, new mixup tool for Ragna?

[LuminAbyss]

Thanks to the j.C buff, yup.

[WolfCrimson]

Hey KayEff, the BBCSE Ragna wiki has info for CS2 version of Carnage Scissors.

[MashThat5A]

Hey KayEff, the BBCSE Ragna wiki has info for CS2 version of Carnage Scissors.

Thanks for the heads up. The wiki has been updated with the information about its terrible projectile invul.

[Fluck]

Hey, can 6D be used to set up a fuzzy guard mixup on medium-tall characters? Like xx>6D>jD> land 2B / j.c.>jC . It might work due to jC buff, but I don't have the game, so I can't test it.

After the j.D, you can land and do a rising j.C and it should work.

You can't land and then do a rising j.C. There isn't enough time. j.D is level 3, so it has 16 frames of blockstun. Jumping is 4 frames and j.C is a 12 frame attack, and fuzzy guards only last as long as the opponent is in blockstun, so you don't have enough frames to land. You might just barely be able to jump cancel into a rising j.C but I really doubt you can combo off that afterwards, even with a rapid cancel.

[MashThat5A]

Hmm, it depends on the height of the jump cancel. It it's as low as possible I'm pretty sure you can do it, just not on the shortest characters.