LuminAbyss Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 Well, the 10% repeat proration from C BE wouldn't apply. They could probably give it different launch properties, different heat gain, BK properties, maybe even cool knockdown if they wanted. So long as they didn't just make it Belial Edge with life steal, it might as well be a new move (without having to go ahead and make more sprites for a new move) I'd like a new normal more than special, really. Something to help with Ragna's pressure, mainly his pushback problems. Maybe a move that would pull them back in? Another plus on block normal wouldn't be a bad thing either.
Tong Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 He needs *nerfs*. His corner carry and rewards off random hits are all ok, but the damage kills the fun, yeah bros? Or wait maybe not, let's buff him more as well the rest of the cast, this way the game will become more balanced. Now really, EX Ragna is just perfect. If they're going to change anything about him, will only depend on which direction they wish the game to go...
LuminAbyss Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 I still stand by the statement that Ragna does not need nerfs. Certain characters just need buffs. And certain players need to block better. Yeah, for now, EX Ragna is just fine. Doesn't hurt to think of new fun moves they could add though~
Dont_Explain Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 He got damage buffs on some his moves right? You could get rid of those and it would a small change that would let him keep his moves how they are now. He would still get better combo options with 6B, but it wouldn't be insta 4k off everything. At least I imagine it working like that.
MashThat5A Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 Only nerf I think he needs is 6C being so easy to combo from midscreen, so long as they don't completely ruin the move like they did to Jin. He could use something to make him more unique. Only having Life Drain makes that character a tad boring compared to the rest of the cast.
Dont_Explain Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 Only nerf I think he needs is 6C being so easy to combo from midscreen, so long as they don't completely ruin the move like they did to Jin. Inb4 it sends them flying at some retarded angle where we can only dash cancel and j.C>blah>DID.
Airk Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 I still stand by the statement that Ragna does not need nerfs. Certain characters just need buffs. And certain players need to block better. Yeah, for now, EX Ragna is just fine. Doesn't hurt to think of new fun moves they could add though~ Wait, what? So the character that like 85% of everyone plays online because his rewards for the effort are just that good doesn't need any nerfs? Roll him back to his CS2 self and he'd still be very strong in this game. He needs to either do less damage, or have actual execution requirements. None of this doop-de-doo, oh look, I landed some random ground normal on someone right above my head where there shouldn't even be a hitbox and got 4k from it. CS2 Makoto wasn't this ridiculous. Not only did she have actual timing involved in her combos, but there were hits that didn't lead in 4k+. :P Feel free to brainstorm ways to make Ragna more interesting, but don't pretend he doesn't need to be toned down to the level of the rest of the cast in some capacity. The only other character on a level with his consistantly silly damage is Valk, and Valk requires actual like, practice. :P
LuminAbyss Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 >Ragna >Execution Never gonna happen. Besides, a lot of the cast isn't difficult execution wise. He's just simpler in gameplay. Which also means he doesn't have a whole lot going for him outside of the basics.
Dont_Explain Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 None of this doop-de-doo, oh look, I landed some random ground normal on someone right above my head where there shouldn't even be a hitbox and got 4k from it. Just out of curiousity, which move are you talking about? 5B isn't above his head, 6A is meant to hit above his head, 5A anti-air in the corner is like 3k iirc. Not sure what you got hit by, but you probably deserved 4k.
Fluck Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 Wait, what? So the character that like 85% of everyone plays online because his rewards for the effort are just that good doesn't need any nerfs? Roll him back to his CS2 self and he'd still be very strong in this game. He needs to either do less damage, or have actual execution requirements. None of this doop-de-doo, oh look, I landed some random ground normal on someone right above my head where there shouldn't even be a hitbox and got 4k from it. What is this random ground normal? The only normals that do reach above his head are 6A and 6C. If you complain about 6A having a hitbox above his head then you're fucking retarded, and if you're complaining about getting hit by 6C, then...there's no hope for you, really. CS2 Makoto wasn't this ridiculous. Not only did she have actual timing involved in her combos, but there were hits that didn't lead in 4k+. :P Ragna 2A starter in corner? 2.7k. Anti-air 5B? 3.7k. CH 6A? 2.8k. 6B starter? 3.4k. You get 4k+ if you RC 5B 5C 2D. If you RC 623C, you get 3.3k. I didn't know BC Hell's Fang lead into 4k+. Makoto wasn't? You telling me EX Ragna is worse than this? Feel free to brainstorm ways to make Ragna more interesting, but don't pretend he doesn't need to be toned down to the level of the rest of the cast in some capacity. The only other character on a level with his consistantly silly damage is Valk, and Valk requires actual like, practice. :P What happened to Carl, Hakumen, Hazama (8k from 5C anti-air?!?!)...Stop whining about execution, at high-level play most things that you see are still completely match practical. The hardest thing we see is like...dashing Hirentotsu loop. Please stop spreading misinformation.
-Seo Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 Can't we just laugh at people who get mad because Ragna is good, instead of being a tad too defensive about it?
Tong Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) We should guide them to the Kaqnian way. Often people exarcebate Ragna's damage by a greal deal. Edited July 5, 2012 by Tong
LuminAbyss Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 No we must stop this blasphemy. Besides, we aren't defensive, everyone brought up good points. Especially Fluck. If you want 4k starters, they're usually punishes (meaning you deserve this) or crouching hit (meaning you didn't block the overhead). Now if you get hit by 5B crouching, you just have no excuse, and Ragna gets 4k off of it.
Fluck Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 Can't we just laugh at people who get mad because Ragna is good, instead of being a tad too defensive about it? I'm just worried about misinformation being spread. Sound laughable but some people do read these forums to learn more about the game :V
-Seo Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 I'm just worried about misinformation being spread. Sound laughable but some people do read these forums to learn more about the game :V I'm not saying they don't and of course, your points are totally valid. I guess I'd just rather see people get mad than having to justify the character I play strengths.
Airk Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) What is this random ground normal? Probably this one.; It might've been a Gauntlet Hadesthough, so maybe not a normal after all. Sorry for that confusion. :P You telling me EX Ragna is worse than this? Yeah, that 2.5k off a midscreen 5B was really impressive there. ;P I'm saying that people actually had to practice Makoto to do her high damage combos, whereas, yeah, Ragna seems to have people sleepwalking through his stuff. Stop whining about execution, at high-level play most things that you see are still completely match practical. The hardest thing we see is like...dashing Hirentotsu loop. Because people never drop combos or pick easier combos in high level play, ever? Also, let's face it - I believe in a game where the work you put in is roughly equivalent to the results you get out. Ragna? Not so much. Please stop spreading misinformation. [qui Sure thing! I amend my earlier "4k+" statement to "3.5k+" Now if you get hit by 5B crouching, you just have no excuse, and Ragna gets 4k off of it. Because, you know, you never happen to lose to 5B while trying to do a crouch normal because 5B is faster than half the 2B's in the game.... Edited July 5, 2012 by Airk
Dont_Explain Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) But it's ok for Makoto to do a CH DP and go from midscreen to corner and get 3.3k and almost 50 heat. More importantly, full screen carry on crouchers. Actually she had some combos that were fullscreen carry on standing Edited July 5, 2012 by Dont_Explain
Fluck Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 Probably this one.; It might've been a Gauntlet Hadesthough, so maybe not a normal after all. Sorry for that confusion. :P 5D and GH are legitimate call-outs for obvious jump-ins. Of course this also means that they have the side-effect of accidentally catching people when the Ragna didn't intend for it to be that way, but that works for a bunch of other moves and characters too. Yeah, that 2.5k off a midscreen 5B was really impressive there. ;P I'm saying that people actually had to practice Makoto to do her high damage combos, whereas, yeah, Ragna seems to have people sleepwalking through his stuff. BC Hell's Fang isn't as much as that. Because people never drop combos or pick easier combos in high level play, ever? Also, let's face it - I believe in a game where the work you put in is roughly equivalent to the results you get out. Ragna? Not so much. This is where you're mistaken, because even top Ragnas drop combos just as often as top players who play other characters. It's more random chance based on unorthodox combo situations than difficulty in execution. Work? Honestly, if you mean execution, then there is no game out there that rewards work equally. Some character types naturally require more work (double characters) and some naturally require less. And some things are just going to be hard. It's not something the developers bother themselves about unless it's a very serious problem, I'm sure. Btw Don't_Explain, 6B forces crouching in CS2 and you can combo into it so Makoto gets full carry as long as you do a 5B close enough.
mAc Chaos Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 Makoto was the worst. CS1 and CS2. The move that hits me out of the air even though it seems it shouldn't is 5B, but that's just jesus kick for you. Anyway, it wouldn't be BB if Ragna wasn't herp derp. That's just how he always is and it's fine. At least he's not Makoto. He gets damage but he's straightforward to fight against.
mAc Chaos Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 She has attained immortality, carving her name into the hearts of players everywhere, alongside Arakune and some others.
Mucky Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 The move that hits me out of the air even though it seems it shouldn't is 5B, but that's just jesus kick for you. I've hit people out of the air with Tager 5B. THE KICK OF SCIENCE Also, CS2 Makoto could fullscreen carry off a fucking air-to-air j.A. 3k+ damage, no RC required. If that doesn't make her case, nothing will.
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