[CSE] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[Fistmaster049]

Maybe GH got completely changed. ASW had done it before on GGAC and Slash.

Now, what would be the point of that move if the old GH is still in?

Good point, hmm

well it seems like it can finish air combos ok, potential replacement for DID for ending air combos?

[xlolxlolx]

lol it blackbeated when they did it from j.d and it looks more like 1 hit badlands :o

[Fistmaster049]

lol it blackbeated when they did it from j.d

guess not

suppose we will have to wait and see

[KayEff]

move all discussion about chrome phantasma into the speculation thread

[Cheefoo]

So I just started playing netplay recently (really hate the lag, I derp all my combos), I main Ragna, and I have a few questions.

First of all, how in the hell do I keep people from jumping out? If I make a tiny hole in my blockstring, they just fly out. 2d seems to punsh them for holding up-back all the time, but I need meter to convert that into anything. But seeing as I'm playing Ragna, I usually do have the meter, but if they block it, and I rapid, I can never continue pressure afterwards. I'd think 2d has enough blockstun to allow me to dash up and resume pressure, but they always just jump out. Fat chance I'll be able to hitconfirm 2d into rapid with the garbage connection I always seem to get.

I'm not sure what my answer to these chicken blockers would be. 5b sometimes tags them on their jump startup, but this usually leave them out of range from all my normals save for 5d (which I won't be throwing out, even anticipating a 5b AA hit). Sometimes I get lucky and their hitbox allows for 5b->5c to land, but then I usually drop the simple-ass 5c->j.c link thanks to the lag. Thankfully, it almost always bluebeats anyway, so I can usually get away with the rest of the combo.

Speaking of bluebeats, I notice a LOT of them in netplay. I'm mashing A like the Fist of the North Star, but I still get these dum scubs bluebeating me all day. Is there something wrong with netplay that just doesn't register inputs, or could it just be my shitty xbox360 pad failing on me yet again?

[Fluck]

Jump and air throw them.

[Alex073088]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lys3D8NhnUs&feature=g-vrec

thought this was pretty funny,

[Cheefoo]

I got this nutty idea after realizing hell's fang has ludicrous amount of blockstun... How well do you think 5B>etc.>214A>RC>6D>mixup would perform? It has no gaps if 214A is blocked normally, or with barrier. If they IB however, they could DP out (or get CH 6D'd into wombos).

[KayEff]

it'd work as well as any move > 6D > mixup...which is only reliable to a certain extent.

[NightShade]

What exactly is the spacing and timing to perfect CDP > 22C combo ender.

[KayEff]

for spacing, after belial edge, do no dash before 5D. if the combo requires stuff before 5D, you can actually go with D DP instead

as for timing, just do the DP as fast as possible. after you land the straight punch, it's only a little bit before you have to crossunder 3C, then into 22C. for the timing on that, i can't really help you. it has to be something built by practice.

[Aloci]

Hey guys.

So I bought BBCS:EX out of hype for P4A, and found out I like this game way more. And the fact that I can actually play online now during the weekends is nice too; so I actually want to get good at this game.

I've settled on Ragna because he's fun as fuck, and I have some basic questions.

When guys talk about getting 4K midscreen with him, that's with meter right? I think the most I'm getting off of stuff>6C>stuff midscreen is about 3.3k with a Heeldrop ender. I think. I don't have the game in front of me right now.

And when I end up in the corner during that combo, I've been doing BE, 5D, DID~Heeldrop. Is there a better ender in that situation? HF~Tsuki oki?

If I land a IAD j.C, j.D without meter on a standing opponent (midscreen), I've been going into 5B, 6A, j.C, j.D, jc.C, j.D DID~Heeldrop. I know this isn't the combo thread, but is there something better I could do?

Maybe a ground string into HF~Tsuki for heat? Chain into 3C > 22C and go for mixups?

How would I be using 6D? In either pressure or combos? If I throw it out in pressure and it's blocked, am I letting it rock? JCing it and whiffing j.D for mixups?

And for combos is it for corner stuff only? BK stuff only?

And for throws, is there any reason to use Ragna's backthrow anymore? Maybe only to get them into the corner?

So yeah, general questions. Sort of. I'll be working frame traps into my game shortly with the 2C, 6C/5B, 2D stuff. As well as pressure in general.

I'll also have a few matches from last weekend for evaluation and critique up sometime soon, as soon as Sony Vegas stops crashing on my video files.

[Cheefoo]

Hey guys.

If I land a IAD j.C, j.D without meter on a standing opponent (midscreen), I've been going into 5B, 6A, j.C, j.D, jc.C, j.D DID~Heeldrop. I know this isn't the combo thread, but is there something better I could do?

Maybe a ground string into HF~Tsuki for heat? Chain into 3C > 22C and go for mixups?

jC>jD>5B>6A>2147B(TK GH)>5B>5DD>dash>6A>jC>jD>jD>JAMANANDAYOKUDAKERA

If the gauntlet hades doesn't come out in the air, follow it up with 5A>5C>air ender.

Alternatively, you can go with 5B>5C>3C>214A for Oki. If you're confident your opponent will neutral tech, it's better Oki than 5B>3C>22C.

After 6D is blocked, you can cancel is straight into jD to reset pressure, or wait till you nearly land and press D, cancelling the landing animation and allowing for any mixup you please. Remember, 6D has rather slow startup, so you could get mashed out if your opponent doesn't respect. As for combos, you should use it whenever you can, but that's usually only in the corner.

Backthrow only for getting the opponent into the corner. If you're midscreen dead center, go with forward, as you can generally follow it up with better combos.

[KayEff]

When guys talk about getting 4K midscreen with him, that's with meter right? I think the most I'm getting off of stuff>6C>stuff midscreen is about 3.3k with a Heeldrop ender.

you can get 3.7k with 5B starter on crouchers using the 6C route.

And when I end up in the corner during that combo, I've been doing BE, 5D, DID~Heeldrop. Is there a better ender in that situation?

if you haven't used 5D previously in the same combo after you use BE, you can go into either CID/DID (depending on the proration) into straight, then once you land, run the other way and perform 3C (if done correctly you should still be facing the corner). from then on you can apply 3C oki.

If I land a IAD j.C, j.D without meter on a standing opponent (midscreen), I've been going into 5B, 6A, j.C, j.D, jc.C, j.D DID~Heeldrop. I know this isn't the combo thread, but is there something better I could do?

against ragna, jin, noel, taokaka, bang, carl, makoto, and platinum, you can use what we call TK GH. this is performed by 2147, then pressing B right when ragna jumps off the ground. if done correctly you should be able to connect with 5B afterwards.

How would I be using 6D? In either pressure or combos? If I throw it out in pressure and it's blocked, am I letting it rock? JCing it and whiffing j.D for mixups? And for combos is it for corner stuff only? BK stuff only?

for pressure, once you get 6D on the opponent, you can either cancel into j.D for an absolutely safe blockstring, which you can then apply more mixup or pressure, or you can whiff j.D by performing it really close to the ground, then using 2B afterwards. in combos it's generally used in the corner, although against some characters you can do something like 6C > dc 6B > 6D > late j.D > dash 5D(1) > 214D > dash 5C midscreen. 6D in BK combos is not necessary, but it's without a doubt the most used move in an optimal combo route.

And for throws, is there any reason to use Ragna's backthrow anymore? Maybe only to get them into the corner?

ragna's back throw is pretty much the same as forward throw, minus the fact that back throw puts the opponent behind ragna instead. use the backthrow to put the opponent closer to the corner should you yourself be close to the corner.

[Aloci]

you can get 3.7k with 5B starter on crouchers using the 6C route.

Oh? Well I'll be experimenting when I get home then.

if you haven't used 5D previously in the same combo after you use BE, you can go into either CID/DID (depending on the proration) into straight, then once you land, run the other way and perform 3C (if done correctly you should still be facing the corner). from then on you can apply 3C oki.

Well that explains why I couldn't that Oki set up to work when I tried it originally. I was using 5D after 6B[air hit], 5C. So I'll mess around and see what I can get without 5D. I feel like I'm losing corner carry without the extra dash cancel though.

against ragna, jin, noel, taokaka, bang, carl, makoto, and platinum, you can use what we call TK GH. this is performed by 2147, then pressing B right when ragna jumps off the ground. if done correctly you should be able to connect with 5B afterwards.

I've been doing that one by entering a manual super jump before the 214B for timing.

for pressure, once you get 6D on the opponent, you can either cancel into j.D for an absolutely safe blockstring, which you can then apply more mixup or pressure, or you can whiff j.D by performing it really close to the ground, then using 2B afterwards. in combos it's generally used in the corner, although against some characters you can do something like 6C > dc 6B > 6D > late j.D > dash 5D(1) > 214D > dash 5C midscreen. 6D in BK combos is not necessary, but it's without a doubt the most used move in an optimal combo route.

Awesome. More stuff to experiment with when I'm home. 6D only picks up like, Rachael, Tager, and the other big hitbox characters right? I haven't really messed with much BK stuff yet, but I'll definitely keep that in mind.

ragna's back throw is pretty much the same as forward throw, minus the fact that back throw puts the opponent behind ragna instead. use the backthrow to put the opponent closer to the corner should you yourself be close to the corner.

And I can still get a decent combo off a back/forward throw if they wallbounce during right?

Thanks for the quick reply. You guys are fast lol.

[KayEff]

if the opponent wallbounces after the throw, you can get into at least a 3.3k combo, 3.6-.7k at most.

[Aloci]

if the opponent wallbounces after the throw, you can get into at least a 3.3k combo, 3.6-.7k at most.

Well now I know what I'll be working on this evening.

I didn't see any wallbounce throw combos in the Combo thread.

[Aloci]

Okay. I've got my 3.3k corner throw combo now :D

Now I have another question. What are you guys doing when you land a Counter Hit 2D? I hit one of those online last week and pretty much didn't do anything lol.

Right now though, I'm doing: CH 2D, 6C(1-last) (dc) 6B, 5C, 5D, (dc) 5C jc.C, j.D, jc.C DID~Heeldrop > 3.9k

I've also got 5C 5D into the same combo for less.

[Fluck]

In the corner, you can do 2D (CH) 5C 5D (1) 214D 5C j.C j.D j.C j.D j.214C 6B 2C 5D 623D (1) 236C 236C cross under 3C ~

Midscreen to corner, you can do 2D (CH) dash 5C 5D 5C j.C j.D j.214C 6B wait 623D (1) 236C 23C cross under 3C ~

[KayEff]

the most optimal combo route for CH 2D midscreen is:

2D > 6C > late dc dash 5D(1) > 214D > dash 5C > hjc j.C > j.D > jc j.C > j.D > 623D >> 214D OR j.214C > 6B > 2C > 5D > 623D(1) >> 236C > CU 3C

while this is the most optimal, it is also the hardest to execute properly and consistently (though still within the boundaries of practicality). i wouldn't suggest doing it.

[xlolxlolx]

damn theres ppl still playing this game?

[BlackYakuzu94]

I got a question, in a corner combo after you BE, would it be a better option be to 5D into ID-D, go into Straight Punch and go into the CU 3C or after BE I use ID-C? I've been having a real hard time getting that shit to connect, because my opponent usually techs or wakes up before it connects.

[Dont_Explain]

I got a question, in a corner combo after you BE, would it be a better option be to 5D into ID-D, go into Straight Punch and go into the CU 3C or after BE I use ID-C? I've been having a real hard time getting that shit to connect, because my opponent usually techs or wakes up before it connects.

If you're pushed back far enough from BE (usually you are, but I might be wrong), you can just do 5D>CID>Straight Punch>CU 3C and it will work as long as proration is fine. Proration might be your problem if they tech out. This usually happens coming from midscreen to the corner since you probably used 5D(2) at some point. Doing 5D(2) again won't let you land the CU 3C.

Also a lot of combos that use DID>Straight Punch requires that you do DID(1). You have to cancel into 214C before the second hit of DID and the timing is weird until you practice it a lot. I think it does a little bit more damage and has the Soul Eater effect on the first hit iirc. If you don't feel like doing that, then CID is your best bet since you should already be spaced for one hit of the initial attack after a BE>5D(2).

[KayEff]

there's a reason why groups exist, you guys.

[MashThat5A]

Well now I know what I'll be working on this evening.

I didn't see any wallbounce throw combos in the Combo thread.

Look at the wiki.