TheGreatReptar Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Did a tiny bit of testing on 6C>49C/D tonight. Going into the C version of the fireball frametraps 5 frame jabs. It doesn't on instant block. I still need to check on 6 frame jabs. D version is super gapless. Should be on IB as well. Both versions seem to hit on the first active frame, so you're -2 with the C fireball and -7 with the D fireball.
Kiba Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Your explanation of the kara throw command is a little off. You actually don't need to input 6C~C+B, 6C~B works wonder. You can even delay quite a lot the "B" and it will extend the range even further. If you're playing with an arcade stick it feels pretty smooth and natural. Now i only use this to throw lol I haven't had success with your method. Has anyone else been successful? Did a tiny bit of testing on 6C>49C/D tonight. Going into the C version of the fireball frametraps 5 frame jabs. It doesn't on instant block. I still need to check on 6 frame jabs. D version is super gapless. Should be on IB as well. Both versions seem to hit on the first active frame, so you're -2 with the C fireball and -7 with the D fireball. Nice thank you for doing this!
Airk Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 I haven't had success with your method. Has anyone else been successful? I'm no expert at using it in practice, but I always thought this was just how it worked. (6C~B) Did a tiny bit of testing on 6C>49C/D tonight. Going into the C version of the fireball frametraps 5 frame jabs. It doesn't on instant block. I still need to check on 6 frame jabs. Er, by definition, anything that frametraps a 5 frame jab also frametraps a six frame jab. Just because the 'startup' is 6 frames doesn't mean it needs 6 frames before you can frame trap it.
Kiba Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Alright. I thought Zouf was talking about a different version or somethin'.
Errol Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 I'm no expert at using it in practice, but I always thought this was just how it worked. (6C~B) Er, by definition, anything that frametraps a 5 frame jab also frametraps a six frame jab. Just because the 'startup' is 6 frames doesn't mean it needs 6 frames before you can frame trap it. by definition, something that doesn't frame trap a 5 frame jab on IB might frame trap a six frame jab on IB.
Airk Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 by definition, something that doesn't frame trap a 5 frame jab on IB might frame trap a six frame jab on IB. oh, oops. I see. I didn't connect the instant-block line with the six frame comment. Carry on.
Mcgreag Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 I haven't had success with your method. Has anyone else been successful? Works fine for me, but I don't really agree with the delaying, you basically have to plink it. There are differences in range depending on the exact delay but we are talking about delaying it 2f more at most before it turns into a 6C instead.
AJSmith325 Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 I haven't had success with your method. Has anyone else been successful? His method is how I've actually learned to kara throw with Tsubaki, I've been doing it like that since EX.
Kiba Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Ok I figure we're talking about the same thing here. I just listed it wrong as pointed out... Thanks for the clarification guys, just wanted to make sure because it didn't make sense to me at first.
Kiba Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Tsubaki wiki is done. If you see any errors please let me know or feel free to correct it yourself.
Airk Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Tsubaki wiki is done. If you see any errors please let me know or feel free to correct it yourself. Text needs some general cleanup and editing; I'll do what I can as time allows tomorrow, and hit you with any questions I have about intent.
Airk Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 Questions about stuff I'm seeing on the wiki. Re: 3c - "You can also use this and it's follow-up for oki after a knock down. " Really? I thought we'd basically declared this dead? Or are we just talking about using it to catch rolls? Re: 3CC - "The added invincibility to the move also ensures a FC hit if they press buttons." how does head invulnerability help ensure a FC, pretty much the only grounded moves with Head attribute are slow overheads and stuff that wouldn't be used to punish? All normals tidied up. Will try to do specials or something tomorrow. Editing is dull x.x
Kiba Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) You can remove that specific information from both normals. Thanks. 3C oki is dead, and uh, I dunno about the 3CC. It just sounds like I'm encouraging people to use 3CC when I shouldn't be. Edited January 24, 2014 by Kiba
Airk Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 You can remove that specific information from both normals. Thanks. 3C oki is dead, and uh, I dunno about the 3CC. It just sounds like I'm encouraging people to use 3CC when I shouldn't be. Updated. Also, when you're talking about 5BB and say "Unfortunately you will find that you rarely get this to hit, and even if you score the CH, following up into 6C is a difficult (but optimal) confirm as 5BB doesn't not inflict a lot of untechable time." do you mean "You're unlikely to hit with 5BB 'raw' and the CH followup into 6C is difficult"?
Kiba Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Yeah, haha. I've made the change. Edited January 24, 2014 by Kiba
Adam0812 Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 You can do 5bb CH > 6c? Might try some delays in that case
Kiba Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 Nah I have to correct that too. They've reduced the hitstun of 5BB so it's no longer possible.
Zouf Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 My AH whiffed after a 22D fully charged (236B 214B 22D) on ragna. I was already on a winning pose irl, but nope. Does this game hate me or should I hate him?
Daedron Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 What would you guys want Tsubaki to get in the upcoming balance update? I think she would be fine with just a few small tweaks here and there, like 5BB hitbox improved, 2C active frames and hitstun back to CS values, 214D head invul back and less character specific combos just for good measure and to make our life a bit easier, I guess some more hitstun on certain other moves would help a bit as well. Not sure what else they could possibly add or change tbh...
Zouf Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) 5B back to 9f 5B not having a hurtbox at the very end of the feather (trading against a 5A is just DUMB) 2C back to invul from frame 7 and 5 active frame. Also improve hitbox to prevent some crossups. Not having to delay every move for them to combo. No more random whiffes in our combos (236B, 5BB etc..) 214X back to having invul head 6C back to having Head attribute 2B overall improvement (faster, stronger, better) 5CC > 6B being a blockstring. Seriously losing to a 5A mash / throw mash is retarded. 6B being at +2 or +3 on block. As we dont have a 5f move (except for our DD), even on block we can't win against 5 frames..... 5CC > 5D being at +1 (currently +0) Remove the [4]6 C move from the movelist. Because guard > dash/5B > 5C/6C giving a fireball is also retarded. I'd love to get our unblockable back, but that would assume she could be top tier, and that's not an option for arcsys. Even with all these improvement i'm not sure she could on par with the current top tiers. But she would be great I guess. Edited January 29, 2014 by Zouf
Errol Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 46C->46A 6a -> 22f 2b -> 10f character specific combos fixed 5bb hits higher (don't care about farther, I want easy air confirms)
Zouf Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 I already mailed Arcsys with all these suggestions
Daedron Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 5CC > 6B being gapless would be stupid, especially if it was +2/3 like you mentioned, same thing with 5CC charge cancel being +1. How would characters without a DP be able to escape except forcing them to IB it? It should be on the player mixing it up to keep up their pressure, not on the moves being all +3 on block or something silly. I would honest to god dump her if she became as braindead as CS2 Tsubaki with her stupid 236x series.
Errol Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 i do want 6b to be +2, not +3. +1 is too sketchy particularly against characters with faster jabs than us, and with barrier and with reduced dash momentum on jabs in CP.. I do want 5cc to be +1, not because I want 5cc to be +1 but because I would want charge recovery to be 17f instead of 18f. 5CC charge cancel being +1 on block doesn't do anything mind you. that's a straight reset to neutral whether it is +0 or +1. Pushback is too large. I want j.D landing recovery to be 5f instead of 9f.
Zouf Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Not it wouldn't be stupid. First, 6B is slow. 2nd, it lose to ANYTHING except guard, which is retarded. 3rd, Tsubaki has close to no mixup at all. Forcing the opponent to IB it to get away is the good solution. Hell, it was the general gameplay of many character before BBCP (Noel with 2C being at +3, Ragna 214D being at +50 etc). And midscreen, you wouldn't even need to IB it to escape, a simple pressure of the mighty barrier and you're pushback to the farwest anyway. It would allow us to reset our pressure (you know, the thing rushdown characters are supposed to do, but our can't for some reason), and improve our threat level. 5CC > 5D being at +1 seems fair. 5CC pushes back very far. Our 5B is slow, unreliable, the hitbox sux, and 5BB follow up works half of the time only. Being at +1 would just give us the little something we "could" need to get closer to the opponent without risking a heavy punish. Please look at our framedata and laugh a good time. Every single of our move is negative (except 6b duh). Because arcsys think we can cancel by 5D so it's fine, but it's not. We are rushdown, we need pluses somewhere, or our threat level will never be as it should. We should force our opponent to make a choice, not just guessing some 22D to except punish a mash somewhere in our strings. To be honest, i'm just sick of people mashing in our string. And don't say "you can always delay", of course you can delay. You can also see the future to win 100% of your matches, or you could rely on a legit framedata and not some sketchy moves on our part. When i watch Konan or Kuresu play, they play very unsafe, they could get punished much more often, but japanese players are more "respectful" and mash less than europeans who get irritated much easier Edited January 29, 2014 by Zouf
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