Airk Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Oh, on hit? Well, whatever, they could reduce the amount of stagger on [4]6D>236D by 8 frames without damaging our ability to do anything off it, right? 6C is only 23 frames of startup, so 30 frames of stagger should be plenty? That would give everyone time to jab out of an unblockable. Kiba, I'm still kindof confused. You don't think that Errol's changes plus unblockable would result in top tier Tsubaki? I mean, there are just so many minor changes that could be made and have big impacts without creating some sort of "complete overhaul" that the idea that the character can't be good without being "redesigned" is just foreign to me. Is it LIKELY she'll be top tier? Absolutely not. But it's not her DESIGN that is keeping her from getting there. That's what I think is unfounded. I don't know about you guys but 46C screwed me up a fair few times when I blocked a DP and tried to punish with 6CC > etc etc and got a 46C instead so I would prefer backwards DP or HCF just fine. You could use...uh...421. :P But yeah. 46C is bad. 46A as Errol suggested is probably the easiest fix, but I guess they could use like... 63214 on a button that's not used by the command grab since that at least doesn't have a 'D' version, but that has heavy overlap with 214. I guess I could live with a Haoh-sho-ko-ken style 632146 or something.
Zouf Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) I think we still need more time to get charges. I mean, if you want the oki, you barely have time to charge with 22B unless you are in corner, and by the time you have 2 or 3 stocks, that means the opponent has already less than half health. I'd love to see her charging time from CS2 back Also, you guys don't have much love for our character if you think she is to be low tier forever. I'd totally love to see her trample on the face of all the casting, i wouldn't be bothered one bit by it. And telling me to change character won't solve anything, nor would it please me. I love tsubaki, and that's why i want her to be s-s-stronnnnnggggg @patchlog : 66 236X giving 236, FUCK YES. I can't count the number of time i tried to dash 236D and it gave me a fucking DP And they removed the stupid charge thing, they heard our plea Edited January 30, 2014 by Zouf
Airk Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 I think we still need more time to get charges. I mean, if you want the oki, you barely have time to charge with 22B unless you are in corner, and by the time you have 2 or 3 stocks, that means the opponent has already less than half health. I was actually thinking about something related to this the other day; What do people think of the idea of Tsubaki STARTING each round with 1 charge? I mean, Hakumen starts with 1 Magatama. Most other characters start with their special magic gauge ENTIRELY full. Valk doesn't have to futz around before he can wolf out. Rachel has wind right away. Why are we special and bad? (Yes, Tager starts without spark bolt, but that's only one move. Arakune's curse starts empty because Arakune.). I think it would be an interesting and easy change that might have very nice implications without being crazy good.
Myoro Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 I was actually thinking about something related to this the other day; What do people think of the idea of Tsubaki STARTING each round with 1 charge? I mean, Hakumen starts with 1 Magatama. Most other characters start with their special magic gauge ENTIRELY full. Valk doesn't have to futz around before he can wolf out. Rachel has wind right away. Why are we special and bad? (Yes, Tager starts without spark bolt, but that's only one move. Arakune's curse starts empty because Arakune.). I think it would be an interesting and easy change that might have very nice implications without being crazy good. Then there's Bullet and Bang. Technically Ignis starts out unsummoned too. There's also Izayoi, Amane. Jin and Terumi too, as meter is part of their gimmicks.
Kiba Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Kiba, I'm still kindof confused. You don't think that Errol's changes plus unblockable would result in top tier Tsubaki? I mean, there are just so many minor changes that could be made and have big impacts without creating some sort of "complete overhaul" that the idea that the character can't be good without being "redesigned" is just foreign to me. Is it LIKELY she'll be top tier? Absolutely not. But it's not her DESIGN that is keeping her from getting there. That's what I think is unfounded. No I don't because she's still gonna have many bad matchups and she's still gonna find it difficult to acquire charge in certain matchups, because she relies on it for stuff. Her normals aren't particularly strong either. Those are just a few reasons. Look at it like this. Shift the focus from finding a balance between charging and applying pressure, and I think she'd be higher. The Mu matchup is very irritating for example and it's not only because her normals outranges us but also because it's difficult to acquire charge. Also, you guys don't have much love for our character if you think she is to be low tier forever. I'd totally love to see her trample on the face of all the casting, i wouldn't be bothered one bit by it. Dunno about anyone else, but you're right about me. I still question why I continue to use Tsubaki at this point. I like the flexibility in her pressure and her combos and stuff, but I don't LOVE her. Guess it's just because I know a lot about her and it's out of character loyalty? And telling me to change character won't solve anything, nor would it please me. It was a joke. Edited January 30, 2014 by Kiba
Owner Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Well, as for me, I love my main Tsubaby for CP Before CP I was playing all kinds of chars (Hazama, Noel, Valkenhayn, etc.) but now Tsubaki just feels so much better to play with (never actually touched her in EX or other versions) Victories feel so much better because you actually work your ass off for good combos and other things Winning with a character who is said to be weaker than most of the other chars is pretty sweet and motivating And motivation is a core element when it comes to fighting games in general Plus having passion for your own char is great and adds to it (as long you don't go full WAIFUUU~/HUSBANDOOO~ on her/him) Now for the upcoming changes I would like her to charge faster Or maybe introduce a move/tech called action charge (HOS anyone?) After certain attacks she already gains more stock-meter but how about she just gets the meter instantly and continues her pressure? I know, that would more or less be a complete ripoff of Order-Sol but he is a rushdown beast and still has to manage his two different bars For me Tsubaki is kinda like an Order-Sol with a command grab and a projectile but with weaker normals In short: Tsubaki was long enough a middle to low tier char, it is time for her to shine #DarkTsubakiRises P.S. sorry for the references
Errol Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Oh, on hit? Well, whatever, they could reduce the amount of stagger on [4]6D>236D by 8 frames without damaging our ability to do anything off it, right? 6C is only 23 frames of startup, so 30 frames of stagger should be plenty? That would give everyone time to jab out of an unblockable. Kiba, I'm still kindof confused. You don't think that Errol's changes plus unblockable would result in top tier Tsubaki? I mean, there are just so many minor changes that could be made and have big impacts without creating some sort of "complete overhaul" that the idea that the character can't be good without being "redesigned" is just foreign to me. Is it LIKELY she'll be top tier? Absolutely not. But it's not her DESIGN that is keeping her from getting there. That's what I think is unfounded. You could use...uh...421. :P But yeah. 46C is bad. 46A as Errol suggested is probably the easiest fix, but I guess they could use like... 63214 on a button that's not used by the command grab since that at least doesn't have a 'D' version, but that has heavy overlap with 214. I guess I could live with a Haoh-sho-ko-ken style 632146 or something. no, 6c is a pretty tight combo, because you have to recover before you can do 6c. 22d is different because you can special cancel the recovery of 46>236D with 22d. math: 20f of blockstun, but move is only +6. so 14 frames after the last hit before you can do something. subtract 14 from 38 and you have 24. explanation of why 6c is a tight combo.
Airk Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 No I don't because she's still gonna have many bad matchups and she's still gonna find it difficult to acquire charge in certain matchups, because she relies on it for stuff. Her normals aren't particularly strong either. Those are just a few reasons. Look at it like this. Shift the focus from finding a balance between charging and applying pressure, and I think she'd be higher. The Mu matchup is very irritating for example and it's not only because her normals outranges us but also because it's difficult to acquire charge. You see, I don't actually feel that her matchups are bad because it's super hard for her to get in on these characters, but because it's too easy for opponents to get out once she does because our normals are weak and our mixup is full of holes (and really, how bad ARE her bad matchups REALLY? Aside from Kokonoe.) Still, none of that is a 'redesign' to fix. Similarly, changing the balance between ease of getting charge and applying pressure isn't exactly a big redesign either. A bigger boost to charge cancel charge rates could be all that's needed there. Nothing you've mentioned comes anywhere near to "complete redesign" which is really the issue I had with your statement. Then there's Bullet and Bang. Technically Ignis starts out unsummoned too. There's also Izayoi, Amane. Jin and Terumi too, as meter is part of their gimmicks. I guess I can give you Bullet, but Bang starts with all his nails (duh). Ignis starts out unsummoned but with full GAUGE. Amane doesn't start in "burnout". Izayoi has the same issues as Tsubaki. No action charge please. I'm SUPER tired of being compared to Order Sol. no, 6c is a pretty tight combo, because you have to recover before you can do 6c. 22d is different because you can special cancel the recovery of 46>236D with 22d. math: 20f of blockstun, but move is only +6. so 14 frames after the last hit before you can do something. subtract 14 from 38 and you have 24. explanation of why 6c is a tight combo. Buh. I guess my brain isn't working today, sorry. =/ Yeah, that makes sense. Clearly, the solution is to make the hitstun on 46D>236 two frames LONGER, so that even if you fully charge 22D it's just a combo.
Errol Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 if hitstun were longer, you could use it as a strong combo part, or use it after hitstun has decayed for an unblockable, or slightly delay your 22d for an ambiguous combo vs unblockable setup, or whatever. i don't think it would be that bad anyway, because it'd just be a tech trap. it staggers so the combo doesn't reset unless they push a button. more of a problem would probably be j236A setups.
bakahyl Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 but Bang starts with all his nails (duh). He probably meant by Bang with his drives, because he needs to get 風林火山 symbols for his new distortion and extra properties on his drives
Kiba Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Corner fireball oki > j.D > air dash > j.B > j.CC > j.214C is pretty good for those that respect the oki. You can followup with 623C > Delay j.214A and take it from there. Kuresu did it in his latest match against Momoiro and is something I should've pointed out earlier.
Kiba Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) Minor note. Tsubaki's fireball is called 'Lux Macto'. Command grab is called Sanctus Aerolata (cool). Here. Changed from JP name to ENG name on wiki. Edited February 26, 2014 by Kiba
cj_iwakura Posted March 1, 2014 Posted March 1, 2014 So in a move of impeccable craziness, I've decided to take my Tsubaki to Evo. I really need to step my game up, especially in regards to using her charges properly and block strings. (And I have to wean myself off of using her BNB as the latter.)
zaeris Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 well good luck, although I find her weakness more glaring as I continue to play her and match up wise it is often an up hill battle.
TD Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 Good luck, David. Good luck fighting all the Goliaths. I hope you aim for the eye. And it hits.
Kiba Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 Tsubaki patch combo from Twitter: Corrner 3CC > RC > 6A > CT > 6C > j.D > j.C > 5C > 2CC > 236C > 5A > 5C > 2C > 236A > 214B > 22B [4486 DMG, 75% heat used]
EXonestar Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 Does [6C > j.D > j.C] still whiff on certain characters?
Errol Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 It only whiffed on Amane and it doesn't anymore. There are harder characters and I doubt that changed.
TheGreatReptar Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 It'll only work on Amane now because they adjusted his hitbox while laying on the ground. No one else got a similar change, so it'll almost certainly be just as hard on hard characters.
Zouf Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 It only whiffed on Amane and it doesn't anymore. There are harder characters and I doubt that changed. It also whiffes on Bullet. Or at least it's super hard to do, so meh.
BatousaiJ Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 Wow these avatars are huge now. I like the one I've got now but unless I can get a larger source of the picture used for it, I doubt I'll replace it.
Tsubaki Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 Has anyone seen what you can do with Tsubaki's air grab? Like I'm not sure if it's just her, but some of the crazy hitbox grabs she can get in the air are really stupid. Like for instance if you hit something like 6A > 5CC > 6BB > 214B > 5C > 2CC but accidently hit them too high, you can still air dash and kind of grab them even though they're behind you after the IAD? Is this something that all characters have with weird hitboxes or does Tsubaki just have a really disjointed kind of grab box?
Kiba Posted March 22, 2014 Posted March 22, 2014 I have brought myself to believe that all the girls have silly air throw hitboxes.
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