[CP1.1] Tsubaki Yayoi General - Gameplay Discussion

[Kiba]

But if I were Konan I would've went for blade super after 22B, then baited the counter assault and ended the match. Have no idea why he did it a useless RC.

I have no idea whats wrong with Kuresu or Konan now.They play like their out of their goddamn minds. I stopped watching Kuresu awhile ago but now I think I'll just pass on watching Tsubaki as a whole. All those matches consisted of upback, mashing, and dps.

I was kinda sitting back and saying nothing, but as of late nothing good seems to be coming from your posts at all. I mean it's fair enough to say that a player may have made some questionable mistakes, but to call Kuresu a moron, tell us how you would have tried to end the match after watching it, AND telling us that you stopped watching Kuresu a while back and that you may stop watching Tsubaki as a whole, nah man, you are actually done.

You can't tell us how you would have played a certain way after watching. That is easier said than done. It is a really intense tournament and players are acting in the heat of the moment. Because of that, you could have forgotten about that option to use the Blade Super. In addition to this, since you do not like to DP much, I would not be surprised if you actually lost A WHOLE LOT QUICKER because of that. If you're gonna stop watching Tsubaki overall because of a lot of DPs, than that's good for you, but to be honest, I don't care. What I do care about is how much time you spend complaining and it is really getting on my nerves. Got nothing good to say? Then don't post. Got something constructive to say? Be my guest, but you have really created a bad image for yourself that it is going to take you a while to repair your reputation. I'm not gonna spend a whole load of time going down this because it has been clear to me from a long time ago that you do not have an open mind when it comes down to stuff like this.

Somethings been different with Japan's play ever since CP hit. And it's not for the better imo.

Somethings been different with Japan's play ever since CP hit.

Japan's play

Actually, you know what? How many characters do you watch Surf? 4? How can you even generalise on the whole region like that with such a minority? Are you going to tell me that there's something wrong with Zekuso's play now? Get outta here.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Kiba

[pktazn]

Makes you wonder why he would do that. Kiba posted the old Kuresu matches back in EX. I watched them again and just said to myself. This is the Kuresu I know. But we've already been over this. Somethings been different with Japan's play ever since CP hit. And it's not for the better imo.

The two bolded parts bugged me the most. Sorry Kiba, I don't mean to drag this out.

Why would he do that? Why do we choose to do anything in fighting games? Because he probably thought it was the best option at the time unless trolling but seeing how hard he worked to get to Arc Revo I highly doubt that was the case. Konan has always been like this with Tsubaki and I have no idea how he pulls it off but when he does, he does and it's magical. It's just his play-style. Also a good Tao is a bitch to block.

And yes that Kuresu you knew was the Kuresu playing EX, which can be considered a completely different game from CP with all the system changes among other things. Guess what? They're not playing EX anymore. They're playing CP and with that comes change not just because of the changes to Tsubaki, but the changes to everything else (and I mean everything) as well.

[Surf]

It's cool. I get it.

[Minutes]

So, I just want to share... it's 8:30am, I could only sleep for like 3 hours and I'm feeling insomniatic. I'm trying to perfect my execution of the following:

(corner) grab or 22D > 6CC > 236C > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B > 236236D

I didn't know you could connect the super at the end and now I wanna get it down, but I'm pretty trifling at DP-type inputs (I came from Rachel who doesn't have one and this is my first real FG). I was LOSING MY SHIT because I kept either doing it wrong so it would just cancel into D charge or too late so it would be blue... where it stands right now, I'm inputting it as 236236236D RIGHT after 22B so that I'll hit the timing right (and it's working consistently)... but seriously. Sleep deprivation + awkward time requirements is a recipe for emotional distress ;_;

(edit: fixed 2C)

Edited July 25, 2013 by Minutes

[Airk]

So, I just want to share... it's 8:30am, I could only sleep for like 3 hours and I'm feeling insomniatic. I'm trying to perfect my execution of the following:

(corner) grab or 22D > 6CC > 236C > 5C > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B > 236236D

I didn't know you could connect the super at the end and now I wanna get it down, but I'm pretty trifling at DP-type inputs (I came from Rachel who doesn't have one and this is my first real FG). I was LOSING MY SHIT because I kept either doing it wrong so it would just cancel into D charge or too late so it would be blue... where it stands right now, I'm inputting it as 236236236D RIGHT after 22B so that I'll hit the timing right (and it's working consistently)... but seriously. Sleep deprivation + awkward time requirements is a recipe for emotional distress ;_;

Uh, so just as a heads up, and I don't know if this has anything to do with your troubles or not, but if you do that combo off a grab you need to omit the second C on 2CC, otherwise the combo goes blue/they tech out (depending on how you have your training dummy set up.). The trick to getting the super, though, is really buffering - as soon as you hit the 22B, you have a pretty good while while the 22B animation is going on, to do your 236236 motion, and then, at the right moment when the animation is over, you can push D and it will come out.

[Adam0812]

In addition to what airk just posted you probably need to charge the 22b somewhat to gain extra knockdown and link the DD ender but I'm not sure as I'll always charge it regardless

[Minutes]

Uh, so just as a heads up, and I don't know if this has anything to do with your troubles or not, but if you do that combo off a grab you need to omit the second C on 2CC, otherwise the combo goes blue/they tech out (depending on how you have your training dummy set up.). The trick to getting the super, though, is really buffering - as soon as you hit the 22B, you have a pretty good while while the 22B animation is going on, to do your 236236 motion, and then, at the right moment when the animation is over, you can push D and it will come out.

Oh oops! You're right, I typed it wrong. I do do it without the second C. and @ Adam yeah, the way I've been timing it, the 22B misses if you don't charge it a little. I didn't write it in the thing, but I delay the 5C until they're close to the ground and charge the 22B.

Thanks for the tip though; I'll try inputting it that way

[Airk]

Oh oops! You're right, I typed it wrong. I do do it without the second C.

You may want to get into the habit of doing it the 2CC version off of 22D, because it DOES do a little more damage, and it's super easy because your combo is WAY less prorated off 22D.

and @ Adam yeah, the way I've been timing it, the 22B misses if you don't charge it a little.

Yup, though you want to charge as much as possible.

I didn't write it in the thing, but I delay the 5C until they're close to the ground and charge the 22B.

Yeah, this is pretty much how you HAVE to do it off a throw. You can be much sloppier off 22D.

[Adam0812]

Without checking the combo thread I think you can do 22d > 6cc > 236c > 5c > 2cc > 22c > dash 5c > 2c > bbb

Maybe the 22d needs to be charged at the start, can't remember

[TheGreatReptar]

Take out the 2CC and that combo works. Charging 22D does nothing in terms of damage and damage scaling. Also, that combo hardly gives any untechable time at the end to build charge/follow up with 6A/6C/3C. I wouldn't really recommend it. Just do 22D>6CC>236C>5C>2CC>BBB. You lose less than 200 damage and get a harder knockdown.

[Adam0812]

Yer I see Konan do like throw > 6cc > CAB > 6a.

The 6a means they can't roll, is that right?

[TheGreatReptar]

Yea, 6A has emergency tech, so they can only neutral tech. You get some nifty options off of it like timing a meaty 5C/5B/throw is really braindead, and you can cancel the 6A into 22D for a meaty unblockable. You can still do Throw>6CC>236C>5C>2C>BBB>6A. Konan I guess just shortened it to stay consistent since the timing on how long you have to charge 22B gets a bit tighter if you add the 5C>2C bit.

[Adam0812]

Yea 6a > 22d is a good noob slayer, I find overcharging 22b so it whiffs into 5a meaty is really successful on most opponents. You can see why though, she does look like she can be punished

[Airk]

Yea, 6A has emergency tech, so they can only neutral tech.

This is not true - they don't have to emergency tech, and if they don't, they can then roll. 6A stuff is mostly for people who are trying to tech as fast as possible and therefore push a button to emergency tech. If they don't, theoretically you can hit them with something else if they lie there too long, but there's no reason why they should do that.

I find overcharging 22b so it whiffs into 5a meaty is really successful on most opponents. You can see why though, she does look like she can be punished

This is definitely tricky, but as has been pointed out to me (even though I haven't yet actually -done- it x.x ) is that using 5C instead of 5A will get you a much nicer punish, and should work equally well.

[TheGreatReptar]

Eh, I didn't want to end up in a giant paragraph re-typing what I think is on the wiki for 6A oki with options for when they delay and stuff.

Overcharge 22B is nice since if they don't tech, you just get an almost full charged 22B to blue beat and you get all your normal followup options. You opponent gets to choose which meaty situation they get to deal with (then they usually die)

[Errol]

charging 22d bumps up the proration

22b is charged or not charged. you can get a charged 22b in a real combo

if you 6a>22d you're doing it without knowing if they will tech. so if they delay...

[TheGreatReptar]

charging 22d bumps up the proration

Why on earth is this new to me? I'm so confused. Everything is a lie.

[toanenadiz]

Whoever did the Tsubaki wiki page, thank you for making it so nice.

[Airk]

Whoever did the Tsubaki wiki page, thank you for making it so nice.

Community effort, but mostly Kiba and PK, I believe.

But yes, I always get annoyed when I go to other character's wiki pages and look and them. It's like "WTF, why is this such a mess?" (Note: Still better than trying to figure out anything about a character in SF4, holy christmas, it's like attack of outdated information from 3 revisions ago.)

[Kiba]

Cuz we're all awesome.

You're very welcome Toan.

[EXonestar]

http://youtu.be/zVSzRl5ImU0?t=4m19s

Just wanted to see what others thought about this video Kibz uploaded

The Description of the video explains the method/plan the tsubaki player used. I was just wondering because ut's a bit of a question mark for me. But at "3:34" Tager techs (I paused it when he was Flashing white as he teched).

Because Tager didn't tech on the ground, does this mean the possible 360 on wakeup couldn't be done?

Secondly, and forgive me if it sounds hella silly but i don't know thats why i'm asking. If tager techs 1cm above the ground and attempted to do a Wake up 360 , would it come out as a Air 360 and catch grounded opponents? (kinda like at TK height so to speak)

Thirdly because Tagers hitbox is quite big and he pretty much teched 1cm high , does this mean the Command grab could potentially miss on other characters that would have teched higher or their hit box doesn't hit the ground as fast.

Just throwing this out there. I'm talking to Kiba about it. So i thought I should post it here. Sorry for the chunk of questions.

[Daedron]

Because Tager didn't tech on the ground, does this mean the possible 360 on wakeup couldn't be done?

We don't know so long as we don't have the game ourselves, but I'll say this.

So long as Tsubaki's command grab hits meaty or at the very least within 2 frames after Tager lands, he can not 360A/B you out of it. He can however still 720 you, and he can also MTW you. Both cost meter though and since you're going into the command grab from a 6C, you could just jump cancel instead to bait them out. Then the Tager would have to guess on what you're going to do, which is a good thing.

Secondly, and forgive me if it sounds hella silly but i don't know thats why i'm asking. If tager techs 1cm above the ground and attempted to do a Wake up 360 , would it come out as a Air 360 and catch grounded opponents? (kinda like at TK height so to speak)

Yes, it would come at as Air 360 and no it would not catch grounded opponent, aka you're safe and would most likely be able to punish him.

Thirdly because Tagers hitbox is quite big and he pretty much teched 1cm high , does this mean the Command grab could potentially miss on other characters that would have teched higher or their hit box doesn't hit the ground as fast.

It's most likely character specific, not to mention any character with a DP can get out of it. But again, we can easily bait mashed DP's by simply jump cancelling the 6C.

To me, this seems very reminiscent of the 6A vortex in some ways, reward is less(at least damage wise) but overall it still seems to basically function the same. They tech and don't DP they will get put into the command grab. They don't tech and we (should) still be safe. If they tech and DP we still have the option of baiting it.

Though it seems very specific on the combo you have to do to get it to work, if we always have to go into it using 22B(with SMP) > 6C then it's just too obvious I would say.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Daedron

[TheGreatReptar]

I'm still waiting to see someone do 6A oki in CP. Theoretically, it should work off of stuff like 5BB>5CC>22D>(6C>CT)>6BB>22B full charge>6A, which since 5C hit meaty on the first frame, the command grab should hit second frame. It'd save a charge and possibly 25 meter too. Being able to reset off of 6C's still great though, even if it's an air tech. Biggest problem with it being an airtech is if the other person realized what you're doing (and they should, considering it's only going to be doable off certain combos with the 2 SMP instances), they could back or forward air tech.

Edited July 28, 2013 by TheGreatReptar

[Kiba]

I'm still waiting to see someone do 6A oki in CP.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21423342

Well, here's a really short setup @ 1:00. 2A > 5BB > 5CC > 22D > 6A > Command grab.

[EXonestar]

We don't know so long as we don't have the game ourselves, but I'll say this.

you could just jump cancel instead to bait them out. Then the Tager would have to guess on what you're going to do, which is a good thing.

But again, we can easily bait mashed DP's by simply jump cancelling the 6C.

But overall it still seems to basically function the same. They tech and don't DP they will get put into the command grab. They don't tech and we (should) still be safe. If they tech and DP we still have the option of baiting it.

Seems like we're going to have to guess right. I'm not sure if we can say its 100% safe but yeah it is character specific. Guess we'll just have to wait and see/try it out. Thx DD