Guilty Gear II Overture ( GAMEPLAY DISCUSSION AND TACTICS PLZ )

[4649]

First thing's first; since the Guilty Room thread for Overture is absolutely swamped this thread exists specifically to discuss the actual gameplay, with the hope of actually creating US interest in the game ( although an actual US release would be nice, sadly we're already three months behind ).

So, talk gameplay, strats and the like here, any story b.s. or opinions take directly to the other thread plox, thanks in advance.

Game mechanics:

"Guilty Gear 2: Overture uses an action-based gameplay similar to the Devil May Cry series while retaining special moves and animations that have been used in past 2D Guilty Gear fighters. Aside from the simple genre change compared to it's arcade fighter predecessors, Overture will feature a troop management system as well as certain points around each of the levels that can be captured to be a spawning point for troops. Various troops from the demo include the light infantry, capable of a special attack; Heavy infantry, capable of launching and juggle attacks; as well as magical troops which can heal and perform status increasing spells. To win, players must directly attack each other or each others Masterghost, an immobile and defenseless 'main base' or spawning point for each player. Each time a player is defeated, they respawn by their Masterghost in exchange for a portion of the Masterghost's lifebar. Victory will be rewarded through: beating the enemy enough times so their Masterghost cannot revive them, directly attacking and defeating the Masterghost, or winning by basis of who has more life once a predetermined timer reaches zero." /wikipedia

Doing so will win a round btw, not necessarily the match. The game can also be played 2 on 2 / team format, with each player having their own masterghost.

Best resources available for the game right now;

http://www12.atwiki.jp/guiltygear2/pages/1.html - Japanese GG2 wiki.

http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=dokurober - High level match vids.

http://insomnia.ac/reviews/xbox360/guiltygear2overture/ - the only decent review of the game from someone who actually bothered to really play it and learn the mechanics.

There are seven playable characters; Ky, Sol, Sin, Valentine, Izuna, Dr.Paradigm, Raven.

[4649]

Map tactical breakdown

http://www12.atwiki.jp/guiltygear2/pages/90.html

The existing maps have very tactical points that I'd eventually like to break down. Right now the main map, Toriora, has basically the crucial points of point 2&3 for player 1 and 1&6 for player 2. It seems that you accrue more mana at the beginning of a match by attacking these points immediately and summoning units to each point to set a basic masterghost defense than by trying to set units immediately at the masterghost base at the start of the round.

Doing so, you then have the options of approaching directly via the path between point 1 and 2 or taking a variant path along the sides, which takes longer but you have the option of cutting across the map laterally which is a two point mixup. So essentially the initial fortification can be nullified entirely with this nitaku / santaku ( choice between two or three options; the core of this game exists in limiting the opponent's ability to damage you directly or indirectly via attacking your character ), so at this point you would either want to attempt to attack and kill your opponent's master ( thus taking off some life ), capture another mana point / temple to summon / buy more units / use an ability, or alternatively depending on your current units make a rush for the masterghost ( extremely risky ).

This is the basic offensive setup for this map. Eventually I'd also like to get into character specifics, i.e. Sol's divekick hitting multiple units and OTG properties, oki'ing with gunflame, airdash mixups off of lockons ( kind of like virtual on: oratorio tangram! you can quick step CC in this game! ) and the like.

EDIT: an interesting tactic i'm seeing in matches ( specifically the Valentine player here http://youtube.com/watch?v=50OGX_Votzc ) is using the left stick boost to scour the map at the beginning and mow down / destroy all the initial opponent units for 100 mana a pop ( specifically the floating turrets ; they usually appear about 2 to 4 at a time and you can kill them by running into them without interrupting your dash ), stop at a mana point to summon a 200 cost unit, then continue, until you've circumnavigated the outer map area and captured all the outstanding points. then command your units to follow you or to attack the master and go for a master or masterghost attack.

[4649]

thanks to Blade for originally reposting this, saved from other thread Found this on GameFAQs in case nobody pays attention to the Demos anymore: Quote: Outline of the demo The demo consists of 3 modes. Modes Tutorial1: Learn the basic moves of Sol Badguy Tutorial2: Learn the basics of the Game rule VS CPU: Fight against Sin with the knowledge from the other two Tutorials TIPS: Better at leastfinish Tutorial 2 before trying the VS CPU. You will have no idea how the game flows otherwise. Basic Rules In all three modes, the basic rules are... To Win: Destroy enemy MASTERGHOST(the main base) To Lose: Run out of time, or get your MASTERGHOST destroyed (note:Getting killed reduces your MASTERGHOST lifebar a big chunk, so if you die several times, you will lose as well) TIPS for Tutorial 1 In tutorial 1, you get to learn how the action part of the game works. I thought I would translate the all the tips in the game, but decided to just sum them up. -Basic Button Controls- Left Stick: walk Sol around Right Stick: move the camera around X: basic attacks Y: special attacks A: jump(Airdash when in air) B: use selected Item/Skill LB: select Item/Skill RB: select Item/Skill LT: fix the camera to the direction Sol is facing RT: LOCK-ON to the nearest Enemy D-Pad: Used to give orders to your troops. however, may not be used in Tutorial 1 -Advanced Moves- Combos: combining X and Y, (like X->X->X->Y or X->Y->Y->Y->Y or X->Y->Y->Y->X) you may execute simple combos Lock-on: by holding down the RightTrigger, you Lock-on to a particular enemy. This is a essential aspect of the game that most of you seem to miss. While Locking on, you may do many more moves, like Dodges, stronger Special attacks, and more. (Which I shall explain later) BlastDrive: by Pressing down on the LeftStickButton, Sol starts a super fast dash, that will take you through the battlefield with enormous speed. If you don't want to bash in to a wall, you may press down on the LeftStickButton again to stop. Also, pressing A while you have the stick in either left or right, you can do a slideturn to go around sharp corners. Smash Attacks: pressing X + any direction on the LeftStick at the same time will execute a fierce blow that does a good amount of damage, and lets the enemy flying away. Guard: Attacks from the front will be automatically blocked.(Only while standing or walking) OverDrive Attack: Pressing X and A at the same time when your energy bar is full. -Lock-on Moves-(ESSENTIAL!!) While holding down on the RightTrigger, your entire moveset changes. (All of the following moves are while you are holding down the RT) Dodges: LeftStick in any direction + A will let you do a Quick step to Dodge enemy attacks. You can also do this move while you are attacking, in order to dodge attacks from other enemies. Lock-on attacks: Combining the LeftStick and X will give you variety of stronger attacks, such as Forward + X for a FootSweep(youcan also kick enemies on the floor to get them to stand) Left or Right + X for a side slash which can be followed by more attacks Downward + X for a Uppercut that sends the enemy in to the air. (And as you expect, you can jump after them to do aerial combos) Special attacks: Like the X button, you can use the Y button with the LeftStick for a few more specials Forward + Y for Bandit Revolver(double kick in the air) Down + Y for Volcanic Viper(Jumping uppercut with the sword) Short BlastDrive: Pressing down the LeftStickButton While in Lock-on, lets you run a short distance Picking Opponents: you may use the RightStick to choose which enemy to Lock-on to. -Other Moves- Roman Cancel: pressing down on the LeftStick Button after you hit an enemy, it will interrupt the attack motion, and will give you a chance for another blow. Quick standing: When falling, pressing A the moment you land on the floor will let you stand up instantly. Tackles: Bashing in to an enemy while in BlastDrive, you can knock them down. TIPS: If you focus on one enemy too much, you will get attacked from behind. Try Combining the Dodges, Jumps and Lock-on attacks to fight safely. For example, right after a Lock-on sideslash lands, try doing a side step. You will be able to slash -> dodge, and slash again. TIPS for Tutorial 2 In Tutorial 2, you areshown how to play the Strategy aspect of the game. You will get no where by just trying to push through by your self in this mode. You have to summon your troops and order them to take the enemy bases for you. I will just translate the Japanese Tips here. (starting from the first message board in the game) (the capitalized names are from the game. yeah. confusing) This is your main base, the 'MASTERGHOST If this base is destroyed, you will lose the match. While standing near the MASTERGHOST, your Life and Energy will regenerate. 'CAPTURE's are the units that are automatically produced from the MASTERGHOST. These CAPTUREs automatically advance towards enemy GHOSTs(bases) By taking control of these GHOSTs, you will gain MANA overtime. You may attack the Ghosts by your self in order to take control of them, but letting your CAPTUREs do the job for you would be much faster. Attacking enemy units would be a betteract for a MASTER(Sol). Using the MANA you gained, you may summon SERVANTS(battle droids) to fight for you. Press the LEFT on the D-Pad to open the ORGAN(the strategy window). In the ORGAN, choose the SERVANT you want to summon, and order them where to head for. (note: Press X in the strategy window to open the SERVANTs List. You may choose one by Pressing A, and then point at a GHOST or a MASTERGHOST that is shown on the map. Pressing A twice will order the SERVANT to head to that point.) SERVANTS will automatically head to the point you ordered them to go, and fight against any enemies if they see any. Fighting with them shall make it a lot easier to advance. SERVANTS will stop an defend the spot once they reach the point you ordered them to head for. You may give them new orders through the ORGAN. (Note:by pointing at a SERVANT on the ORGAN map and pressing A will let you give them new orders) Other from just summoning your SERVANTS, you may conjure Items and learn new Skills from the ORGAN as well. When your life is low, conjure a life potion to get your life back. Conjured Items and learned Skills will be put in to your item bag at the left hand lower corner of the screen. Use the LB, RB to choose, and B to use it. You may give instant orders to SERVANTS around you. Right on the D-pad : "Stay there" Downward on the D-pad: "Retreat" Upward on the D-pad: "Go ahead" The MASTERGHOSTs are protected by a sturdy BARRIER. By taking control of all of the GHOSTs on the field, the enemy MASTERGHOSTs BARRIER will weaken, and will make it easier to destroy. Destroying the enemy MASTERGHOST will make you win the match. However, the Masters attacks would not do much damage against the MASTERGHOST, while the BARRIER is there. Let your SERVANTS attack the MASTERGHOST and reduce the BARRIER,then you may do much more damage. Only the Master can give the final blow to destroy the MASTERGHOST. TIPS: With out understanding the strategy element in this demo, you won't be able to see the whole picture of this game. This game is not a Hack and Slash game, nor is it a Dynasty warrior clone. It is a RTS in which you can actually control a character and join the fight your self. TIPS for VS CPU mode Finally, in the VS CPU mode, you get to fight a matchunder the actual PvP rule. You will be facing another Master, SIN, with his troops. The battle field will have more GHOSTs, and SIN will mercilessly send in his troops to take them. In order to win in this mode, you will have to utilize the ORGAN to the fullest, summoning SERVANTS, letting them attack enemy bases, and defend your own. Detroying SIN's MASTERGHOST shall make you win the match, like the other two modes. You better try this mode in EASY for you first time, cause I'm telling you, it's hard. TIPS: Most of the SERVANTs that you can choose from in the VSCPU mode are 'locked' That means, you have to pay some MANA in advance and wait a while before you can summon them. Pressing A with the curser on top of a 'locked' SERVANT will let you 'unlock' it. After a about 30 seconds, the SERVANT will be 'unlocked' and you may summon that SERVANT as normal. OVERALL: The true nature of this game will be shown only after you understand both the moves and the strategy elements in it. The learning curve is steep, but promising. Once you get the hang of it, the frenzy of giving orders, running through the battle fields, and performing combos all at the ame time, shall become very enjoyable. The MUSIC!!! The famous Rock tunes aren't gone. Go to VS CPU mode and face SIN one to one. The music will change in to a GUILTYGEAR rock tune. Also, once you take control of most of the bases, the music will change as well. Check it out.

[4649]

originally posted by rallamajoop, thanks again. -servant info. Minions There's some decent information about Minions up there finally. I was wrong about Hunchback Summon summoning a Capture before - it actually summons a Minion (presumably called a 'Hunchback') which just looks a lot like a Capture. Minions don't look to be all that tough, and a set time period after being summoned they explode, damaging any surrounding enemy troops, so they don't last long. However, they're cheaper to summon than most other Servants, there's no delay while they're being created and they appear right in front of the Master. I've seen players in some of the Japanese vids run up to a neutral Ghost well ahead of their troops, summon a Minion and leave it there to capture the Ghost for them while they run on to the next one, so it's not hard to see how they're going to be useful. Classes There's a list of all five different Servant classes - short range (indicated by a circle), fast moving/manoeuvrable (triangle), armoured (square), sniper (arrow) and magic user (star). They come with a list of which class has the advantage over which other class (short range beats manoeuvrable, manoeuvrable beats armoured, armoured beats sniper, sniper beats short range etcetc) but I think the list comes from a magazine and I've seen some comments that it doesn't match up to what's in the demo, so maybe they've misprinted something or changed their minds about it a few times during development. In brief: Sol's Tribe is made up of robots that specialise in capturing Ghosts and knockdown attacks, with units that can strengthen lower-class units and seal up enemy abilities. Valentine's are all rotting zombies in pretty clothes named after desserts, who can variously summon Minions of their own, eat bodies of dead soldiers and pull off assorted other nasty tricks. Sol Standard Servants The Drill - Short range class Steady short range unit good at resource acquisition (presumably meaning caputuring Ghosts). Can be strengthened by a Blockhead. Blade - Armoured class Good at acquiring resources. Can be strengthened by a Blockhead. When powered up, forms an attack barrier. Pencil Guy - Sniper class Has a ranged knock out attack (?). Can be strengthened by a Blockhead. When strengthened, ability to knock down enemies improved (?). Advanced Servants Fire Wheel - Advanced short range Can knock down nearby enemies while it charges through (?) and has strong ranged attacks. Engulfer - Advanced maneuverable Has a special attack that can seal enemy skills for a certain amount of time. Especially strong and fast. Gigant - Variable class Very strong attack and defense. Has a special attack that makes enemies retreat (?). Sol's skills can transform it to take different classes (short range, maneuverable, armoured or sniper) that will be the more advantageous at different points in battle. Blockhead - Advanced magic user Has knockdown attacks and strong ranged attacks. Can strengthen Sol's lower grade Servants and restore health to allies. Queen - Advanced sniper Excels at attacking and maneuverability, and can seal enemy skills for a fixed time. Minions Hunchback - Advanced Maneuverable Strong offensive power and armour. Has a special ability that can make enemies retreat. Can be transformed using Sol's skills. Valentine Standard Servants Candy - Short range Standard short range unit. When half it's HP has run out, uses a powerful rush attack. Gateau skin - Sniper Uses homing projectiles. If knocked down, uses powerful attack when it gets back up again. (?) P-Branmaju (some kind of Japanese desert) - Magic user Can distribute the strength of enemy units among its allies (?). Has a skill called 'Blackfeet' which slows down its enemies. Advanced Servants Charlotte - Advanced armoured Good at ranged attacks. Has a skill called 'rekkusukuro' (unsure how to romanise) which restores health to surrounding allies when an attack hits. Mille-feuille (type of pastry) - Advanced maneuverable Has varied attacks and can summon its own minions (Cherry and Cherry Hatchet). Also can use surrounding dead bodies as intermediaries to summon minions. Eclair - Advanced sniper Sniper which also has short range attacks. Has a skill called 'Venom slaver' which returns Ghosts captured by the enemy to a neutral state. Miss Tiramisu - Advanced magic Has projectiles which drag in several enemies (?). Excels at sealing up special enemy abilities. Minions Cherry - Maneuverable Summoned by Mille-feuille. Strong maneuvorability power. Cherry hatchet - (unknown) Summoned when the Mille-feuille eats the bodies of fallen soldiers. Strong attack power. Brownie - (unknown) Minion which has had its soul confined by Valentine's power. Two in one set. Acts as a shield for Valentine. When hit, counterattacks and disappears. Pessimistic personality. (? on all the previous) Dr Paradigm Not many pictures out there for Dr Paradigm's Servants yet, but I've linked to them if I could find them. They're all beast or fish-like creatures - weird mix, but you'd probably expect that considering their Master. Like Valentine's, there's one that can summon it's own Minions, and it sounds like there's one powerful class that actually cannibalises weaker classes to restore its own HP. o_O Standard Servants Groper (maybe modeled after a groper fish?) - Short range class Average short range unit. Although it falls behind other units in attack power, it's cheap to produce. Roller - Armoured class Strong stamina, heavy weight with limited mobility. Acts mainly as a shield and to confine enemies (?). Bow-wow - Maneuverable class Moves fast but has low stamina. Minute cost is low (?), can be mass produced as a decoy. Acts as bait for Born Biters. Gate gunner - Sniper Can't move, acts as a fixed gun battery fort. Can strengthen one ally (?). Advanced Servants Leonald - Advanced short range (Can't translate, something about reducing damage from enemy skills?) Spirit Seeker - Advanced magic user Summons Minions (Bow-wow junior) using friendly Captures as an intermediary. Like its Master, specialises in long range attacks and can't use short range (?). Acts as a fixed gun fort (?). Voiced by Ishiwatari. Born biter - Advanced armoured Strong battle power. Can regain health and strength by preying on gropers and Bow Wow juniors (???). Can draw in and knock down several enemies at once (?). Dual horn - Advanced magic Excels at reducing the enemy's defense (?). Can restore the Master and Servant's health. Minions Bow-wow junior - (unknown) Summoned by the spirit seeker. Can knock down enemies at a distance (?) and be eaten by the Born Biters. There are many of them, so they can be used as you please (?) Cocoberi - (unknown) Summoned by Dr Paradigm's tension move, continually attacking Minion. Creates a barrier to compensate for the Master's lack of strength. If Dr Paradigm gets close to the enemy Master, it's a way of attacking and providing defense. Izuna Izuna's Servants are all assorted kinds of Youkai (Japanese spirits). Haven't found a single picture outside one trailer and the official flash site of any of them, but I've linked to pages with info on the myths their based on when I could find them (closet Japanese mythology geek that I am). Standard Servants Kappa - Short range class Average battle youkai. Has a counter skill. Neko-mata - Maneuverable class Best against magic using and sniper Servants. Has a cute face under its mask (?). Namahage - Armoured Says "Are there any bad kids here?" (?) Strong attack and defense, good at using its shield. Ittan momen - Sniper Like it's name says (see linked article for info). A youkai without much stamina, but is able to make tiny bunshins of itself. Best at long range attacks. Voiced by Ishiwatari. O-yuki - Magic user Powerful magical youkai. Strengthens the defense of surrounding units and can freeze enemy units in place for a fixed time. Advanced Servants Tengu - Advanced short range Can send the enemy flying into the sky with its fan, and so can force the enemy away from the front line for a short time (?). Especially useful if it can blow away the enemy Master. Deidaara - Advanced armoured Strong against Ghosts and the Master Ghost. Can trample the enemy (and something else I can't translate). Kirin - Advanced sniper Trifles with the enemy with high speed movements (something about defense power for a limited time). Talented sniper youkai. Minions Daruma - (unknown) Minion summoned by Izuna's skills, with special abilities. Can slow enemies down. Deidaara's messenger - Maneuverable Minion summoned by Deidaaras. Fast and warlike. Sin and Ky For some reason, the Japanese wiki page hasn't bothered to add any info on nearly all these Servants, but at least there are plenty of pics of them around. Standard Servants Swordman - Short range class Average battle ability. Has a powerful special attack which can knock down enemies. Gauntlet Body - Armoured class Springbok - Maneuverable class Wiseman - Magic user Twin Trigger - Sniper Advanced Servants Convict Hammer - Advanced armoured Quadro Baliff - Advanced maneuverable Heaven's Libra - Advanced magic user Minions Humming Sword - Maneuverable

[4649]

CPU demo notes. fighting the CPU AI of Sin on Normal difficulty can be incredibly annoying as he is as cheap as possible, however there are a couple things i've noticed. the CPU adopts an initial strat of extremely inherent predictability and then branches outward into a flowchart of several options, which suggests to me that taking an early lead in this game can lead to a crushing, dominating victory. usually Sin will wait till you've fortified two points, amassing as much mana as possible in the meantime, and then utilize the closest point to your masterghost to mount an attack with the strongest possible units you can collect given the early timeframe. you have two ways of responding to this. one is two try and outdo him economically by mounting a safe knockdown and BlazeDriving away to construct stronger units to weigh him down and draw off his direct offense. the other is attacking him directly and attempting to get a lead on lifebars, which will more often than not either send him back to his masterghost but still leave you cleaning up the mess of powerful units while he'll be busy summoning more or end with him running away and leaving you busy with his units while he attacks your nearby defenses or your masterghost directly. in most cases except extreme ones ( i.e. being surrounded by Sol and ten or more of his 400cost units ) he will have little regard for his own life. I'm also unsure as to whether or not he properly techs things which is why sadly to say testing to see if things actually combo on him is too difficult to determine ( although testing with 2 players is an option ). He is very good at blocking but at random times will just stop, and falls for lockon quick step mixups fairly easily, often having a hard time getting out of the radius of bandit revolver and Sol's jumping X. You can often just sit and bait a string and then volcanic viper him to punish, then set a gunflame out to force his defense - gunflame is very good in situations where he and several of his units attack together, they're huge and slow moving and will launch several of then in a cluster, also good if you need to run away from him to fortify yourself or use a spell.

[KomagPHL]

トップページ = Top Page

[4649]

LOL okay i'm dumb n/m ::fixes:: thanks for that though.

[Oiboi]

I swear this game gets no love. I got to play this and to me, it feels a lot like chess. As long as your masterghost (King) doesn't die, you can still fight. Gaining territory and using your units (pawns and etc.) allow you to strategize your attacks and crush your enemy before they have a chance to do anything. The dashing maneuver is awkward but there's a reason for that; people who are good at controlling it can cover more area and take more ghosts faster. Killing the auto units that go from ghost to ghost can help you take ghosts faster (Don't bother wacking it yourself, the units can take points much faster as long as they don't get interferred with). So the general idea is to send units to one point and run to the next one to stop units from taking that one as your units catch up. Supporting your units this way helps take ghosts faster, and ultimately gives you a huge amount of mana really fast. If your going to use the menu, do it around units. They should hopefully cover you a little bit in the chance of a surprise attack, and you can help them as soon as your done. If your going to try to take a risky area, say it has a lot of units, send as many of your units as you can spare to it, pocket a few and then run there. Drop the units, and start killing stuff as fast as possible before the enemy master shows up. If you're good enough you should be able to take the ghost without too much trouble this way. Don't assume you can do everything by yourself. Your units are necessary to do much in this game, as they can take ghosts and take the masterghost barrier down very fast. In return, they need you to keep them safe from bad unit matchups, enemy masters, and to deliver the final blow to the masterghost. It's very important you keep an eye on your units and assist them when they're in trouble (Even in chess, the pawn can be the most important piece on the board). From what I can tell, there are varying playstyles for each character. Sol is a lot more hands-on, and is versatile in almost any situation. Paradigm's units are VERY good but he's pretty weak on master vs master conflicts. Izuna is a little awkward, his units are pretty good but some are rather weak (the catgirl/ranged units in particular), but he's rather good at master vs master fights. Sin is similar, although his units are slightly stronger to compensate for the lack of serious damage (He's got some good overdrives, but his combos aren't much...). Valentine is the most awkward one I've played, as her moves have weird hitboxes; She's very good if she uses her units as the main attack force and comes in to smack the enemy around. She's pretty decent at combos too. Ky relies the most on mana to do his specials and overdrives, and his units aren't really anything special, but he's got some good damage nonetheless. The combo system is a little awkward at first but once you get the hang of it it's actually not too bad. Focus on getting your units first though, before buying special moves and such, as you can't do much without them anyways. End match Sol Dragon Install is really freaking awesome though. 20 units vs 20 units with Sol slamming through everything is insane. If you need health or mana, stand near a ghost as it'll heal and give you more meter. Do this after master vs master fights or they'll just come back to get you. Make sure to send your units ahead to distract the enemy while your doing this, and run to help them as soon as your ready. You should also use this time to work the menu whenever you need to, buy more units you lost, buy specials, items, etc. Speed is imperative, and the faster player will almost undoubtedly always win. The more ghosts you have, the more mana you will obtain, so the person who gets more ghosts the fastest will have a major advantage later. Controlling space is just as important as it is in fighting games; the more territories you control, the harder it is for your enemy to do anything. Oh, and 4 player matches are a sight to see. So much stuff going on, it's really fun.

[Blade]

I'd play it...if I could afford to get it.

[4649]

I actually JUST got around to buying it, I'll be posting a LOT of stuff come January

Izuna Combo Movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afPeAJVutlE

[Rift]

I know it's not related to competitive gameplay, but for anyone who's missing a Chimaki or two (I know they're easy to find) here's a quick chimaki guide I threw together.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/298862.html

Sorry about the awful playing, my I hooked up the 360 directly into my capture card which gave me huge input delay.

[Silmerion]

So! I'm looking for people to play with sometime on XBL. My gamertag is: I Darago I I play Izuna.

[Blade]

I actually JUST got around to buying it, I'll be posting a LOT of stuff come January

Izuna Combo Movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afPeAJVutlE

Finally! Excellent! Now if only someone could do a decent Dr. Paradigm vid...I'm convinced he's got a unique style all his own.

To say nothing of me wanting to see Raven combos!!!

[Silmerion]

My thoughts on the tiers for this game. The game's pretty balanced, and the game is more or less all about skill, but tiers are clearly there.

Combat

S++: Sol

A: Izuna

B: Sin

C: Ky, Raven

D: Valentine

D-: Paradigm

Sol is way out on top. Valentine's frankly not too far above Paradigm.

Army

S: Paradigm

A: Valentine/Raven

B: Ky/Sin

C: Sol

D: Izuna

Overall

S: Sol

A: Izuna

B: Paradigm, Sin, Ky

C: Raven

D: Valentine

[Blade]

D-: lol at your emote pun.

[shinquickman]

I unno about Paradigm's overall tier. It's so hard to find a match vid online w/ Paradigm ever winning...

[Silmerion]

@Blade: Hah! I didn't even notice I did that! @Shin: Paradigm has the best army, the best OD, and great buyable skills. His problem is that many still try to fight with him frequently, and he's very bad at that.

[Blade]

It's because they try to "fight with him" and he responds by "fighting back" that he's gonna lose. The guy is an away fighter/pixie, and that's hard to understand in a melee battle. You have to retreat alot/often in those situations and throw servants in their way in order to be effective with him...sadly Organ is never safe in those situations. That's why it never hurts to "pocket" a few powerful servants with him just in case a Master shows up.

[Oiboi]

I think Valentine is stronger than that, but it's hard to accurately judge without some more matchvids and experience. Sol IS good at 1v1 combat but he has huge trouble dealing with superior units, so I think that'd be more of a drawback. Overall the list isn't bad though, speculation is always fun anyways lol. Dr. Paradigm is a bitch to fight with Sol, for instance, because he can just run away forever and block you with units. He'll get mana so fast that every time you kill one he'll just send another and lol at you trying to get close to his masterghost. Valentine is weird herself though. She's like some weird mix of paradigm and Sol where she has good units, and pretty decent attacks, but controlling it all is very awkward; Her melee attacks have weird ranges on them, her units are kinda slow (but very strong)... Plus I mean, she's cute.

[Silmerion]

I think Valentine is stronger than that, but it's hard to accurately judge without some more matchvids and experience. Sol IS good at 1v1 combat but he has huge trouble dealing with superior units, so I think that'd be more of a drawback. Overall the list isn't bad though, speculation is always fun anyways lol.

Dr. Paradigm is a bitch to fight with Sol, for instance, because he can just run away forever and block you with units. He'll get mana so fast that every time you kill one he'll just send another and lol at you trying to get close to his masterghost.

Valentine is weird herself though. She's like some weird mix of paradigm and Sol where she has good units, and pretty decent attacks, but controlling it all is very awkward; Her melee attacks have weird ranges on them, her units are kinda slow (but very strong)... Plus I mean, she's cute.

Frankly, Valentine is bad. She's supposed to be a projectile support character, but she has generally bad projectiles with which to accomplish that. On top of that, she's really only slightly better than Paradigm at melee. It's a good thing that her/Raven's army is clearly the second-best in the game, because she doesn't really have anything else going for her.

About that Izuna combo video: I don't frankly know what that player is doing. I've done some serious playing with Izuna's combos, and I happen to know for sure that many of those combos are techable, have gaps, or at least don't lead to knockdown!

[Adelheid]

It's because they try to "fight with him" and he responds by "fighting back" that he's gonna lose. The guy is an away fighter/pixie, and that's hard to understand in a melee battle. You have to retreat alot/often in those situations and throw servants in their way in order to be effective with him...sadly Organ is never safe in those situations. That's why it never hurts to "pocket" a few powerful servants with him just in case a Master shows up.

It's not like Paradigm can't fight in melee, it's just that he can't fight in melee alone. He has all the same defensive options as everyone else, and if he's with a group of servants it's not too hard to utilize the fact that his guys are just better than the opponent's guys. Paradigm acts as an excellent support unit due to his rock drop attack being so solid and not costing tension, and even though he can't combo, his basic l.XXX has good priority. It's just, you know. If Paradigm is the only guy you have fighting the enemy master you're basically going to get slaughtered. But even having a Gate Gunner out helps mitigate that.

By the way Gate Gunner is a ridiculously awesome skill and I cannot see a reason for Paradigm's opening Organ use not to be to send out three sets of Geroppa and buy Gate Gunner, or two sets of Geroppa, a set of Bower, and Gate Gunner.

[Jubeh]

Hate to ask, but do we have any sort of bread and butter combos in this game yet?

[Silmerion]

Hate to ask, but do we have any sort of bread and butter combos in this game yet?

Here's the stuff I usually use with Izuna.

Notation:

Prefixes

f = Forward

b = Back

> = Right

< = Left

j. = In the air

Suffixes

X = X attack

Y = Y attack

Misc.

OD = Overdrive

AD = Air dash

MC = Modern Cancel

JC = Jump Cancel (I will only put this when Izuna needs to jump and not follow up with anything - otherwise it's more or less implied.)

Incidentally, I'm totally putting forward my notation as the standard notation.

Note that you can get pretty creative with the lead-ups into these - I'm just posting the general outlines. Sorry, I don't have damage values handy for some of these, but I assure you these have been tested to max out damage for minimum Tension.

X, bX, JC, X, bX, j.X j.X j.X

fX, j.X, X, bX, j.X j.X j.X

fX, AD, j.X, j.Y, X, bX, fY

fX, j.X, X, bX, j.fY (MC), fY

These are really the only combo patterns I use right now.

[Jubeh]

Man I hate Izuna's army, but thanks for the combos. I think I might actually main Paradigm. I didn't realize how fun he was to use because I was always trying to rush down like you'd do with Sol.

[Circuitous]

Why is no one using my forum?