[AC] May Tactical Discussion/Questions/Help

[NamelessCounter]

im not sure if you guys use low air dash mixups often, but I do. i find that low airdash kpk is a good 3 hit air string and low airdash s h is also good, however the airdash s h sometimes pushes me back too far to continue comboing. so instead I've been using low airdash j.S j.K which pretty much stops any pushback problems on block or hit from you airdash strings

Try jk and jhs instead of js, jk or js jhs... this is really character dependent and where the enemy is on the screen, for example using jsjhs is fine on pot but smaller hit box characters will make you whiff your 2d when you land and do 2k, 2d (i have no idea why in some cases at the max range of 2k it will hit but then 2d will whiff its really annoying...) However this isnt a bad set up because in some cases (dependent on character hit boxes) you can do js,jhs,2k,2s,svd(whif) ohk when you land. If you find your enemy consistantly blocks low, then try low air dash js, jhs svd (because of the range it should hit near the top or as coming down rather then as soon as it starts) frc,jhs, land, 6hs,svd ->dolphin loop. ( i have yet to implement this in my combos as not having a working ps2 = only arcade practice :'(!!

Also if your enemy is in the corner js,jhs should be fine (SHOULD) but i recommend jk jhs in reference to low air dashing in because jk comes out quicker. However if your air dash isn't low enough you will end up going over there heads if they are crouching.

Warning! Abusing low air dashing without proper set up = Eating 6p combos!

[qwan]

hi there! sorry if those question have been already asked, but reading all the post in English give me headheck.. So 2 question : -Is there a technic to make the 6hs notcharged DOlphin? -I know that's useless but it's possible to SB the special throw of slayer or Sol?

[Dogysamich]

yo I'm new and im lost as hell. I'm not lost to the point of I dont know where to go, or how to practice and all. I just dont know where to start. I've been reading a little bit here and there, and all I've really concluded so far is that I still want to play May. XD So, ... --throws up his hands-- i dunno it's so much. ___ So i've been fumblin around with some stuff; learning the general DO's and Dont's. Learning the easy stuff that everybody under the sun can go. So i started looking at combos, and that's where i guess im gunna start (in this rant) 1)FRC from Dolphin? Is it frame perfect timing or am I just that bad? 2)The Force Break Dolphin. I dont know if it's useful or not, but i dont understand how to do it. (Mainly cause I dont understand what the neutral pad is supposed to be?) ___

[Kyle]

hi there!

sorry if those question have been already asked, but reading all the post in English give me headheck..

So 2 question :

-Is there a technic to make the 6hs notcharged DOlphin?

-I know that's useless but it's possible to SB the special throw of slayer or Sol?

No apologies Qwan, glad to help out.

1- 6HS Special Cancels and Super Cancels. 6HS does not jump cancel.

you can cancel 6HS into -

OHK= Overhead kiss command grab 63214 K

RR = Resestive Roll Dragon punch 6323 S or HS...grounded

Hoop Set= 41236 + P/K/S/HS can be held forever by buffering button.

SVD= Slash vertical dolphin 2,8 S

HSVD= Heavy slash vertical dolphin 2, 8 HS

SHD= Slash horizontal dolphin 4, 6 S

HSHD= Heavy Slash Horizontal Dolphin 4, 6 HS

FBSVD= force break Slash vertical dolphin 2,8 S, 8D

FBHSVD= force break heavy slash vertical dolphin 2, 8 HS, 8D

FBSHD= force break Slash horizontal dolphin 4, 6 S, 6D

FBHSHD= force break Heavy Slash Horizontal Dolphin 4, 6 HS, 6Ds

WHALE= OMG it's a whale! 236236 S

Jackhound= OTG launch, scales bad, very un-usable 214 D

You can NOT cancel 6HS into-

Jump

P

K

S

HS

5D

5D[D]

2-You can SB Aerial Command Grabs like Potemkins Heat extent and Anji's ON (Command grab). You can NOT SB ground command grabs, like Slayer and Sols.

I just don't know where to start.

Start Here-

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3750

___

1)FRC from Dolphin? Is it frame perfect timing or am I just that bad?

For all Non ForceBreak Charged dolphins, "FRC timing is 10-12F after hit or block." Visually it's when she starts waving her right Arm like a crazy person. If you goto Training mode and turn on "DISPLAY" setting onto "INPUT" a Blue flash will appear when the FRC should be implemented. Hope that helps.

2)The Force Break Dolphin. I dont know if it's useful or not, but i dont understand how to do it. (Mainly cause I dont understand what the neutral pad is supposed to be?)

The exact input for the FB dolphins are-

FBSVD= force break Slash vertical dolphin 2,8 S, 8D

FBHSVD= force break heavy slash vertical dolphin 2, 8 HS, 8D

FBSHD= force break Slash horizontal dolphin 4, 6 S, 6D

FBHSHD= force break Heavy Slash Horizontal Dolphin 4, 6 HS, 6D

The neutral pad is before the 8D or 6D, as there is a little input window where nothing should be pressed. DO NOT buffer the 8 or the 6 for FB's.

I love your Handle Dogysandmich- Makes me laugh. Welcome to Dustloop. Welcome to the May forums.

[Dogysamich]

i still cant get the force breaks to work --shrug maybe im dumb XD-- but everything else helps alot. Thanks!

[Kyle]

i still cant get the force breaks to work...

Force Break Moves cost 25% tension, so make sure you have that much available...

You can cancel into a FB from any dolphin, after the 7-Th frame. So try this; Charge a Vertical HS dolphin, after the dolphin is over the apex of the arc press (Up + Dust) at the same time. You should remove yourself from the dolphin, and May should go air-born.

- Do NOT hold the Up position on your stick/controller.

Once you can do this, just concentrate on doing the FB (8D or 6D depending on the charge) sooner.

Please share, if this works. I'm almost at a loss of words to describe it now.

like:

Charge a flash Kick, Don't buffer 8. Wait then press 8D anytime after frame 7.

Charge a SonicBoom, Don't buffer 6. Wait then press 6D anytime after frame 7.

I hope this lets you pull through. =/

[qwan]

thx for the answer but i didnt ask well my question..i can cancel my 6hs with a dolphin,but only when the 6hs is charged..is there a technic into cancel it without charge?

[Aurelious]

Dogysamich: Are you the Dr.Mario player at Smashboards? If not, I apologize, and either way, welcome to the GG world. qwan:6 HS cancels to dolphin, pro tip, it's LATE. Input should be 6HS, [3]. . . . 9S or 9HS. -No charge buffering tricks -MAN IT UP! Taken from the May Primer. Hit 6H and the exact moment you do roll it to the 3 position. Wait the appropriate delay and there you are, no need to charge the 6H. I believe this is what you were looking at. There is some method to using a charged 8 for doing this but the exact reference eludes me. On the topic of FB dolphins, you charge the Dolphin, and when you hit S or H, return to neutral then hit 8 for a VD and towards the opponent (6 or 4 depending) plus the Dust at the same moment. If you hold the direction it will not work, the stick or pad must return to neutral first. So it's [2] (30 frames) 8H (return to neutral) 8D for a VD or [4](30 frames) 6H (return to neutral) 6D (If May is on the left, switch directions if on the right.) Just practice doing it in the middle, then trying to make it earlier and earlier until you dislodge right after the dolphin appears.

[Dogysamich]

Actually, yes i am. (Hope that's not a bad thing >.> ) And yes, FB dolphin makes sense now. The explination is about the same, but explaining what actually happens helps. I thought I was supposed to be pressing 6D or 8D after hit, NOT before (cause well, i was expecting some added attack, not jumping off the dolphin.)

[Aurelious]

If you are going to FRC the Dolphin (not a FB Dolphin, a standard one) you have to FRC the Dolphin after the hit (it won't FRC until where the dolphin bounces off the opponent.) Glad it helped. And no, it isn't. I came from Smashboards myself (Smash was mt first competitive game. I am known as Lightningmage, though I was none too popular or overly good, but I did a good job over the Zelda boards for a while.) It took a while to adapt from Smash to a true fighter, but I love GG.

[Dogysamich]

Yeah, i play melee.. too damn much. And i've messed around in numerous other games, including GG:XX. I heard GG was deep; but oh dear god. I'm drownin over here. XD ____ I do have another question (probably another simple one, but again; i dont understand what's supposed to happen). JI, or rather, combos with JI in them. I (think) i know what JI is, that entering a jump command after the attack... but what am i supposed to be doing with it? Like this combo (just the first one i saw with a JI in it) OHK, 6HS, SVD, S, JI, HS, Delay, SVD, 5P, HSVD. When I JI, do i literally jump, land, and then HS, or am i missing something? ____ Thank you for the fast responses, btw. I really appreciate it. :-D --edit-- i actually answered my own question by reading some more. XD I think ill read around a bit more and come back if i still dont understand. I do appreciate the help though; thank you!

[Aurelious]

No. Jump Installing is simply "storing" a jump during a Beat String to be used at a later date. The use in this particular combo is always by Jump Installing, you halt any movement so you and the opponent stays in the same spot for the combo. It halts horizontal acceleration. Jump Installing in other combos is to otherwise jump or air dash after a situation where you normally couldn't (such as after a super jump.) With Anji (whom I main) the main use is to pop them up, Jump Install, super jump for a few hits. Without the Jump Install, I couldn't jump again, but since I Jump Installed, I can jump for more hits and a little more damage. Some moves automatically Jump Install. To test you JI properly. Hit an oppoent with S, then quickly hit 8. Make sure you hit H after the 8 to ensure you do not jump (any slower and you will just jump after the S. Make sure both the S and H hit with an 8 in the middle). Now Super Jump. If you can jump after this Super Jump, you just Jump Installed. If you can't, then you did it wrong. When you see JI in a combo, it merely means to hit 8 between both commands as to have jumped, but cancel the jump animation with the next attack, therefore storing said jump. Hope this helps.

[Dogysamich]

/me scratches his head, sorta confused. So basically, in the combo i listed I would JI to change the knockback (to where they dont move, so that I can continue my combo), or i could use it to jump later to get away from something?

[Kyle]

Alright guys, Due to recent confusion, it's very clear to me that I need to update the 101 Primer with more specific information about Jump Installing and the 6HS cancel. I wrote this assuming that anyone could understand me, but I didn't even begin to consider that people would be translating and learning in other languages. With that brought to my attention, certain point's like, "Man it up", renders itself VERY VERY useless. I'm sorry guys. I'm updating the primer with better info about 6HS, SVD & JI info.

[Kyle]

Updated 101 Primer with:

6HS.

6HS Special Cancels and Super Cancels. 6HS does not jump cancel.

you can cancel 6HS into -

OHK= Overhead kiss command grab 63214 K

RR = Resestive Roll Dragon punch 6323 S or HS...grounded

Hoop Set= 41236 + P/K/S/HS can be held forever by buffering button.

SVD= Slash vertical dolphin 2,8 S

HSVD= Heavy slash vertical dolphin 2, 8 HS

SHD= Slash horizontal dolphin 4, 6 S

HSHD= Heavy Slash Horizontal Dolphin 4, 6 HS

FBSVD= force break Slash vertical dolphin 2,8 S, 8D

FBHSVD= force break heavy slash vertical dolphin 2, 8 HS, 8D

FBSHD= force break Slash horizontal dolphin 4, 6 S, 6D

FBHSHD= force break Heavy Slash Horizontal Dolphin 4, 6 HS, 6Ds

WHALE= OMG it's a whale! 236236 S

Jackhound= OTG launch, scales bad, very un-usable 214 D

You can NOT cancel 6HS into-

Jump

P

K

S

HS

5D

5D[D]

6HS, SVD. Pro tip, it's LATE.

Input should be 6HS, [3]. . . . 9S or 9HS.

-No charge buffering tricks

-MAN IT UP!

6HS can be charged fully to make an Overhead, it's pretty good on wake-up. set-ups discussed in next Guide.

6H: 15 frames startup, 16F hitstun = 31 F window for charging. VD requires 30 F charge. Furthermore, you have ~5 frames after the hitstun to cancel, giving something like a 6F window to cancel after full-charge.

So, if you have the beginning correct ( -- brutally short if you don't know how to do it) you should be hitting 8 S/H within like 5 frames of May moving again after the hitstun (swing, pause, move again for a split second, dolphin). I personally cannot react this fast, so I've actually learned to time the move from the start of hitstun (i.e. I try to predict when the hitstun will end).

pulsr had a neat trick for getting down the cancel timing in training mode: 6H->RR. Do the RR as late as possible after the hitstun expires. This exercise helps give you the feel for how long after the hit spark you can cancel into dolphin (heck, I still do it).

EDIT: more advice: the [2] (or 1 or 3) needs to be charged for 30F -- the has to be the one being delayed. The S/H can be spazzed during up if it helps, but only after a "down" was held for 30F.

Im getting use to the 6HS, V.Dolphin now. Its hard to explain how to charge it. Its kinda I try to press down forward but I press HS as soon as my finger presses forward before i hit the down all together. That works for me. Also I like practicing with Venom to help me with learning how to charge better, its helped me a bit it might help others. I try to do his

6p, 6HS, carcass raid (charge d, up slash), since its a bit harder to do that mays 6HS, V.Dolphin in my opinion. Food for thought.

To add to that, practicing w/ Potemkin is also a nice way to practice May's 6P/6H -> H.Dolphin/FB cancel: PO's 6H -> Hammerfall ([4]6H). PO 6H is 18-frame startup, compared to (uncharged) MA 6H/6P (same startup both). If you can get PO 6H->Hammerfall easily, you just need to do it 3 frames faster for MA 6P->H.Dolphin.

JI-

Description

The Jump Install (JI) technique is a very powerful feature that allows you to dash or double / triple jump where you normally can't. This leads to higher damage combo possibilities as well as additional attack options.

There are many types of JI techniques. The common goal between all of them is to allow you to have additional air options where you normally wouldn't. Generally this means being able to have an extra jump cancel to extend a combo, but also in some cases to allow you to air dash after moves you normally wouldn't be able to.

Type 1: Solo Jump Install

Character Example: Axl

Jump Install Sequence: 632147S -> RC, air dash H,D -> (air) 623H

The solo jump install technique is relatively straightforward. By adding an upward direction (7 or 8 or 9) at the end of a ground-based move that goes airborne, you can Roman Cancel it when it strikes (but before it recovers) and then utilize your air dash or double / triple jump options. In this particular example, Axl can attack with his 63214S, then cancel as it hits (leaving him airborne), then utilize an air dash towards to combo (if the move hit) or pressure (if blocked).

Type 2: Combo Jump Install

Character Example: Chipp

Jump Install Sequence: combo to RC, dash 6P(JI),2H -> 22H, j.P,P,K -> JC, dj.P,S -> JC, tj.P,S,H -> 623S

Since Chipp normally cannot use air dash or double / triple jump options after his 22H teleport, combos ending with 2H -> 22H are limited. However, using the JI technique before taking to the air allows Chipp to use a full triple jump air combo. To do this, up is pressed the instant P executes, then the 2H is chained after it. Since the 2H comes out before the Jump Cancel can take effect, the jump is simply stored for later. Chipp can then recall it after going to the air with a special move (in this case, 22H). Though there are generally easier and more damaging combos for Chipp, his Jump Install variations are very flashing and extremely technical. Definitely a must for all stylish Chipp players.

Type 3: From-Jump Jump Install

Character Example: Ky

Jump Install Sequence: j.H (land), S -> 623H -> RC, air.S -> JC, dj.S-H -> 623H

For some strange reason, if a combo is started off a basic jump (not a double jump), then goes to the air via special move (such as Ky's 623S or 623H), the move can be RC'ed and the game system will allow air dash and double / triple jump options. That's basically the reason it's called "auto" jump install, simple because it's automatically done!

Type 4: Super Jump Install

Character Example: Millia

Jump Install Sequence: 2S,2H(JI) -> SJC, sj.S,P,K -> dj.P,K,S,H... etc

Using a similar technique to the Combo Jump Install, Millia can install a jump into a jump cancelable move, then quickly cancel it into a super jump. For example, when Millia performs her 2H (which is jump cancellable), buffers the up direction early, then uses a super jump at the point when the move can be cancelled, she then has all of her double jump options available. Normally, after a super jump, characters cannot double jump. This simply boosts her combo options. Though it isn't particularly obvious to most players, Super Jump Install can show your technical ability as well as open up more interesting combos.

The Jump can be Installed earlier in the sequence too and still use the Super Jump Install. With Anji, for example:

Air Throw |> S (JI) f.S > SJC, sj.S P S > jc.S P S D

NOTE: You CANNOT Super Jump Install from neutral! Hitting 8 2 8 or similar while standing at neutral will NOT let you double jump after a Super Jump. You must cancel a normal for the SJI to work.

Type 5: Pseudo Jump Install

Character Example: Anji

Jump Install Sequence: 2147P -> RC, air dash, K,S -> 214P

When doing an air move close to the ground using the "tiger knee" motion, your character recovers in a normal jump if the move finishes while airborne or if it is Roman Cancelled. For this particular sequence, Anji performs his 214 close to the ground using buffering the 214 on the ground, then quickly finishing with 7 (up back) and P. From here, the air 214P is RC'ed, and Anji air dashes in to continue his pressure. Using this technique with other moves can result in boosted offensive options and even better combo options.

Type 6: Auto Jump Install

As of Accent Core, many special moves which used to have to be Jump Installed no longer have to be. These moves are said to 'auto-Jump Install' now. Sol's Bandit Revolver is one such example. Make sure you check out your character's Frame Data for more information.

Additional Notes about Jump Install

Jump Installing counts as a pseudo jump but you do not actually leave the ground. Besides the desired property of allowing you extra jumps, Jump Install also kills any ground momentum you had. This means that if you started your combo by running, any forward run speed you have left will go away once you Jump Install. Keep this in mind, it can be important!

Oddly enough, it is also possible to force the enemy to jump install. Certain moves when they Counter Hit will cause a floor bounce, but also cause a large amount of stun where they 'stick' to the floor briefly. If you strike the enemy again during this time, they will remain on the ground instead of bouncing. If this happens, they have technically been 'Jump Installed', and can possibly air tech even while standing! There are other varations on the same idea as well that will allow you to 'Jump Install' your enemy. Not that you'd really want to.

JI Conclusion

The JI techniques allow you to power up your combos and attack options. It allows many combos that were previously not possible and also brings new life to attack patterns. Complete mastery of the JI technique can be a definite advantage at high level play.

ALWAYS Jump install on EVERY S, JI, HS... It's a PRO habit I SWEAR.

[Dogysamich]

you might wanna throw in there that when you FB Dolphin, you do the 6D or 8D BEFORE it hits (so that you jump off the dolphin) rather than after it hits. Cause i got my ankles broke on that one. XD

[Kyle]

Done. =), Sorry about that one by-the-way. Do you forgive me?

[Dogysamich]

Oh it's not your fault at all.

It would probably make perfect sense to somebody else. I've just played a few other games before, so I didnt know you had to put in neutral then 6D/8D that fast.

... it's more of the games fault, cause i've played 2 or 3 GG:XXs, and the last thing I expect is for May to hop her ass off her dolphin. XD

So all is forgiven.

____

While i'm here, i have 2 more questions (oh im chalked fulla questions)

1) Who are some good May players to look at?

I dont think i need specific, specialist people (good rushdown, good turtles, etc etc), i

just need some good May. XD

2) Do people actually use (or even attempt) IKs in matches?

I actually mean in general, not May specific (i think you guys are friendly enough to not kill me over a random question like this) >.>

**

oh, and your sig. TMNT:IV. :P

[Kyle]

1) Who are some good May players to look at?

The Top three JP's players that come to my mind are Efute, Kedako and Moriyama. All three play different but are effective.

Efute- Solid Game play, weird combos, implements a plethora of advanced techniques into his style. Wins most matches. (My personal favorite player)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7H8aTVawNVs

Kedako- Textbook, effective, Nothing crazy but VERY consistant. Wins more than Efute?. (Overall, he's the runner up for best May.)

http://youtube.com/results?search_query=%E3%81%91%E3%81%A0%E3%81%93&search=Search

http://kedako.web.infoseek.co.jp/AC/

Moriyama- A hot topic of discussion, he plays VERY simple, ALL BASICS, whores out J.2HS and OHK, Wins the most. Not Flashy, but funny to watch as his success is there. (Dustloop favorite) In this video he is fighting the best Testy and HOS, questionably the Best in Japan as Kaqn & Shonen are phenomenal players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObYlbX2_f9Y

Do check the thread here for other video links.

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2302

2) Do people actually use (or even attempt) IKs in matches?

It depends on the Level of play of your competition, or if Jais's been drinking.

[Dogysamich]

.... /me pokes his head outside to see the video thread. Ya know, im doing a fine job of looking dumb and completely helpless. Thanks again though

[Miz_Erable]

Hi everyone. I've read somewhere in this forum that it was pro to make a JI between S and HS during a lame loop. So now I make it everytime, but I don't feel the difference. What is the use of this? Is the increased pushback of any help? Is it useful to make some HSVD FRC>AD>H>land>etc... combo? Generally I go for FRC only after a P>HSVD, so there's no real need for the jump install between S and HS, if I'm correct... Someone could explain to me why it is "pro"? I have another question, after a lame l00p, if I FRC the last HSVD>AD>j.H>land>j.H... this last j.H (just after landing) never touch my opponent. He always recover in time. Is there something I'm missing here?? Thanks !

[Hsien_Jo]

Those vids were good stuff Efute uses my favorite AC May color (Blue rain coat, white wet suit, brown hair) And I think thinks its cool to see others play with the original colors, cause it seems old school to me and there aint nothin wrong wit that.

[Aurelious]

The JI is really for halting horizontal advancement in a long combo string (so they don't get out of the combo early because of movement) Besides, it kind of is a good idea to always JI (in case you dont want a dolphin and want an air combo of some kind, you have the option open. No clue on the J.H. I never thought HSVD had a spot in the lame loop except maybe as a finisher. So maybe try a SVD instead.

[Frank The Tank]

The JI is really for halting horizontal advancement in a long combo string (so they don't get out of the combo early because of movement) Besides, it kind of is a good idea to always JI (in case you dont want a dolphin and want an air combo of some kind, you have the option open.

Not quite. You JI to make sure that if you do some sort of FRC>AD finisher, you're always ready to go (Ex: 5S, JI, 5H, HSVD, FRC, AD, j.H, etc.). I do it often, but now I normally just do it on the second rep of the loop. In practice, though, I do it for every single rep. It is a good habit, provided you know when you shouldn't do it.

[Frank The Tank]

2) Do people actually use (or even attempt) IKs in matches?

Against ABA, yeah. OHK the bitch for the last KD, and you have plenty of time to activate and kill her adorably when she wakes up and transforms.

EDIT: Double post - Because I got somethin worth sayin.

TechnoDrome Lets Kick Shell.