[CSE] Hakumen vs. Mu

[SansProtocol]

Place holder

PUNISHES:

ANTI-AIRING:

ZONING:

THEIR GAMEPLAN:

STRATEGY:

CHAR. SPECIFIC DETAILS:

[BlackYakuzu94]

Ok, this needs to be bumped, because this matchup is slowly becoming a pain the ass for me. Neutral game is fine, but I find distance to be a pain in the ass. Approaching by air doesn't work because of her 2C, and/or Stein. And if I stay on ground, it's either 6B or 3C. I guess the problem I'm having is approaching because once I get in, it's a non-issue.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

You can counter her 2C easily enough with jD. If it's really a problem for you, treat this like Lambda/Nu and approach via super/double jumps instead of air dashes. Mu's projectiles aren't as good at keeping you out seeing as they're auto-aimed instead of predictive. 6B can be countered with 6D if you see it coming, like just about anyone else's overhead. It's better to get hit by (raw) 3C than 6B, so figure that into your blocking.

If she ends up getting a laser spam wave off usually a random j2A will do the trick. If you feel like actually timing it that usually works too.

[Sophisticat]

Try to bait 2c, it's got huge recovery and the invincibility frames come out late (11f, I believe). 6b can be mashed out of. 2a -> corner carry that bitch.

It's not an easy matchup, mind you. Mu can hit harder than Haku with the right starter. :X

[BladeOfJustice7]

be ready to punish air to air pressure strings like jc>j2c, because you can jd in the middle of that block string. Be sure to also 6d if she goes for 5c>6c in the middle of her pressure, and if you have 4 stars, you can IB her 6c>Shippu her for CH or simply yukikaze if she's going 5c>6c as well.

If she also often autopilots quick swords of destruction, you can 2d that for sadness. If you see her trying to zone you with steins, your best friend in jc, a lot of Hakumens don't know how to deal with her pressure and try to catch her with other normals. But air dash and jc is very strong and will most likely lead to a CH knockdown.

That's all I can think of, I haven't played this matchup in a while.

[BlackYakuzu94]

I had almost forgotten 2A low profiles her 6B.

[mAc Chaos]

Hmm. I have lots of Mu experience, but I need to figure out how I can turn that into something communicable...

One thing I can say for sure is that you can't mash out of 6B always. It depends what she is using in the blockstring. I used to do that, then the Mu's wised up and made it a frame trap instead.

[BladeOfJustice7]

@mAc, since I want you in charge of the Hakumen matchup thread. This is because I think you play more than any of us lol.

You might as well start now then instead of CP. Base your write ups off this: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?12897-My-Ky-Trade-Secrets-thread/page3&p=1351736&viewfull=1#post1351736

It's up to you how much detail you want to add though.

[mAc Chaos]

I don't even play that much though. >_> You guys probably play more. I'll see what I can do though.

The challenge is translating all the stuff you do by instinct and intuition into explicit statements. It's easy for stuff like, "Block Inferno Divider, then punish" but then there's those moments where you just know you need to airdash in on them as opposed to other times.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Timing J.D for her 2C is a pretty rough because j.D comes out fast, so I think it's better just to block. The Mu I play tends to block low, and when I 6B them, they can mash out of it with 2A.

[psycofang2]

I don't even play that much though. >_> You guys probably play more. I'll see what I can do though.

The challenge is translating all the stuff you do by instinct and intuition into explicit statements. It's easy for stuff like, "Block Inferno Divider, then punish" but then there's those moments where you just know you need to airdash in on them as opposed to other times.

trying to convey that type of concept into an actual discussion is next to impossible. At best id say list of discuss what is universally practiced, punished, strung together and what can be combated against.

anything other than serious solid situations then we step into "what x situation" land that requires foresight and intuition from the player.

it cannot be conveyed without it sounding like a guess.

[bakahyl]

Not sure why some people claim that hakumen's air normals are the right answer against "stein spam", because the Mu player can adjust her stein summons to throw hakumen off (like summoning steins above or behind hakumen, charging the steins etc.)

Mu's 2c is only an answer to hakumen who like to IAD alot, otherwise her 6a is safer. And if you whiff your j.d when Mu uses her much smaller 6a, then you are in a world of pain for being in CH state for a while.

Also you can't always mash out her 6b with Hakumen's 2a, depending on the string. Like the gap between 6a or 5b> 6b is too small for 2a (unless you IB) , eventhough you can opt to counter but it might fail if the Mu uses 6a or 5b > 2b or 3c. And a 3c CH leads to a 4k meterless combo

Edited March 31, 2013 by bakahyl

[BladeOfJustice7]

I don't even play that much though. >_> You guys probably play more. I'll see what I can do though.

The challenge is translating all the stuff you do by instinct and intuition into explicit statements. It's easy for stuff like, "Block Inferno Divider, then punish" but then there's those moments where you just know you need to airdash in on them as opposed to other times.

You still actively play this game, I only touch BB when I head to meetups or training for an hour or two to remember how to play.

I thought the post I linked you to was clear enough. I'll give an example of what i mean, it's won't necessarily be the Mu matchup since I haven't played pochp in a while.

I'll probably do Valkenhayn since I'm used to rush down matchups the most.

Timing J.D for her 2C is a pretty rough because j.D comes out fast, so I think it's better just to block. The Mu I play tends to block low, and when I 6B them, they can mash out of it with 2A.

Unless I misread your post, what are you doing for them to mash out of your 6b.

trying to convey that type of concept into an actual discussion is next to impossible. At best id say list of discuss what is universally practiced, punished, strung together and what can be combated against.

anything other than serious solid situations then we step into "what x situation" land that requires foresight and intuition from the player.

it cannot be conveyed without it sounding like a guess.

Exactly. The basics of the matchup and then everyone has their personal tendencies. We're not asking for TentacleTectal does, but what you tend to do when you play most Mu's.

[Sophisticat]

I should be playing Pedro more in the coming weeks, so I might be able to add something to this discussion.

[Koopa_Klawz]

Is it even worth trying to make voids/counter Mu's lasers cause I can never tell when they're going to fire with everything that's happening on the screen and missing will likely put me in a bad position.

[bakahyl]

Is it even worth trying to make voids/counter Mu's lasers cause I can never tell when they're going to fire with everything that's happening on the screen and missing will likely put me in a bad position.

I think it depends on the Mu player. If the Mu uses predictable stein formations then you can easily create voids (easier if these are non charged). I prefer to vary my charged and non charged lasers and positions (usually 4d, 6d j,8d and j.6d setting them above and behind hakumen ) and i haven't seen that many hakumen having luck slashing the lasers.

However setting steins is a risk for Mu and if you don't approach her, it will be harder to get in if she can use habakiri and totsuka with those steins

edit: IMO the reward of such a void is usually not even that great. While you can't get hit by any more lasers in the void, you are still stuck in that position (if you are low magatama, it's good though) and Mu can stil re-adjust her stein patterns incase you want to step out of it. And if hakumen is not completely covered in the void, a well placed habakiri can still hit him XD

Edited May 6, 2013 by bakahyl